Not the same God?

[hellokitty]

Greetings~
Well, here I am in a mess again.
My husband is a Lutheran and he was deeply offended when I told him that Catholics have a different God than Lutherans have because the way I saw it, there was no way it ever could be the same one, the qualities are too disimilar. Protestants are too quick to say we make everything up.
It’s a bit strange because if our God *is the same *then either we are all going to hell or they are all going to hell. Better choose wisely. I knew I needed to find out for sure…
My husband said oh sure, go to CAF and ask the Catholics but I told him that the people on these forums are completely unbiased and have schooled me when I have been wrong and enlightened me about things when I needed to know the truth. So that’s why I posted here again
Thanks so much for reading this thread,
Jen

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Greetings~
Well, here I am in a mess again.
My husband is a Lutheran and he was deeply offended when I told him that Catholics have a different God than Lutherans have because the way I saw it, there was no way it ever could be the same one, the qualities are too disimilar. Protestants are too quick to say we make everything up.
It’s a bit strange because if our God *is the same *then either we are all going to hell or they are all going to hell. Better choose wisely. I knew I needed to find out for sure…
My husband said oh sure, go to CAF and ask the Catholics but I told him that the people on these forums are completely unbiased and have schooled me when I have been wrong and enlightened me about things when I needed to know the truth. So that’s why I posted here again
Thanks so much for reading this thread,
Jen

All Christians: Catholic, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestants believe in the same God. What Protestant ecclesial communities lack is the fullness of understanding of God and the Christian Faith. I’m not surprised your husband was somewhat offended.

 

[PaulDupre]

Matthew is correct. Catholics and all other Christians worship the same God.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1636 Through ecumenical dialogue Christian communities in many regions have been able to put into effect a common pastoral practice for mixed marriages. Its task is to help such couples live out their particular situation in the light of faith, overcome the tensions between the couple’s obligations to each other and towards their ecclesial communities, and encourage the flowering of what is common to them in faith and respect for what separates them.

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

I recommend you share this with your husband and heal this rift between you.

In Christ Jesus,
Paul

 

[Victoria_R]

I know how you feel.http://images.thebestexercisebikes.net/images/smile.gif

 

[1ke]

Greetings~
Well, here I am in a mess again.
My husband is a Lutheran and he was deeply offended when I told him that Catholics have a different God than Lutherans have because the way I saw it, there was no way it ever could be the same one, the qualities are too disimilar. Protestants are too quick to say we make everything up.

I am not sure where you got that notion. I suggest you read the Catechism section on the Church and documents such as Vatican II’s Decree on Ecumenism and the Catholic-Lutheran joint declaration on justification.

You are sorely mistaken.

Lutherans are our fellow brothers in Christ and the Catholic Church accepts Lutheran baptism as valid.

I really don’t think it is a good idea to create such discord in your marriage.

It’s a bit strange because if our God *is the same *then either we are all going to hell or they are all going to hell. Better choose wisely. I knew I needed to find out for sure…

Perhaps you both are.
Or neither of you.

It is not an either/or proposition.

Again, see the Catechism section on the Church, particularly paragraphs starting at 846.

My husband said oh sure, go to CAF and ask the Catholics but I told him that the people on these forums are completely unbiased and have schooled me when I have been wrong and enlightened me about things when I needed to know the truth. So that’s why I posted here again
Thanks so much for reading this thread,
Jen

Consider yourself schooled.

Seriously, though, I don’t understand where you got this idea.

 

[followingtheway]

I think we do, but Protestants as well as other Christians know a little less about that God than us

 

[ConstantineTG]

I would argue, however, that they preach a different Christ than the Apostles preached. As St. Paul has warned in his Epistles.

 

[TrueLight]

I would argue, however, that they preach a different Christ than the Apostles preached. As St. Paul has warned in his Epistles.

What different Christ?

 

[ConstantineTG]

What different Christ?

As St. Paul has warned, many would preach a Jesus Christ other than the ones they preach. And you can see it clearly today in these Protestant faiths, preaching a Jesus Christ who seem to be different than the one that was taught by the Apostles. There’s a Jesus Christ who’s accepting of divorce, a Jesus Christ who’s accepting of gay marriage and the gay lifestyle, a Jesus Christ who allows sinfulness. All these of course are not the real Jesus Christ, not the one that the Apostles have taught. Not just because one is called “Jesus” and resembles the one we read in scripture, doesn’t mean this is the real Jesus Christ taught by the Apostles.

As a wise man once said, “will the real Slim Shady please stand up”

 

[TrueLight]

As St. Paul has warned, many would preach a Jesus Christ other than the ones they preach. And you can see it clearly today in these Protestant faiths, preaching a Jesus Christ who seem to be different than the one that was taught by the Apostles. There’s a Jesus Christ who’s accepting of divorce, a Jesus Christ who’s accepting of gay marriage and the gay lifestyle, a Jesus Christ who allows sinfulness. All these of course are not the real Jesus Christ, not the one that the Apostles have taught. Not just because one is called “Jesus” and resembles the one we read in scripture, doesn’t mean this is the real Jesus Christ taught by the Apostles.

As a wise man once said, “will the real Slim Shady please stand up”

As you know, there are different Protestant denominations. Some are more conservative and some are more liberal. I have attended Churches with both viewpoints.

Need I go into Catholics who also preach a Jesus who loves everyone and everybody goes to heaven, accepts divorce and remarriage, supports abortion and contraception, gay lifestyle, follows sinfulness etc?

Protestants generally believe in the same Jesus, begotten of the Father, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, died, descended into hell, on the third day rose again, is seated at the right hand of the father and is coming to judge the living and the dead.

What we should look at are devout Protestants and devout Catholics. They believe in the same Jesus.

 

[ConstantineTG]

As you know, there are different Protestant denominations. Some are more conservative and some are more liberal.

Need I go into Catholics who also preach a Jesus who loves everyone and everybody goes to heaven, accepts divorce and remarriage, support abortion and contraception etc?

Protestants generally believe in the same Jesus,who came from the Father, was born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, died, descended into hell, on the third day rose again, is seated at the right hand of the father and is coming to judge the living and the dead.

That is why the path to heaven is narrow, we deviate one bit from proper teaching and we’re off the right path.

We’re talking about the teachers here, not the followers. If Catholics want to believe another Jesus than the one taught by the Church, thats their problem. But as long as the Church sticks to true Apostolic teaching, then the faith remains true. It can’t be quantified merely by how conservative they are or position on certain issues like divorce, abortion, etc.

 

[TrueLight]

That is why the path to heaven is narrow, we deviate one bit from proper teaching and we’re off the right path.

We’re talking about the teachers here, not the followers. If Catholics want to believe another Jesus than the one taught by the Church, thats their problem. But as long as the Church sticks to true Apostolic teaching, then the faith remains true. It can’t be quantified merely by how conservative they are or position on certain issues like divorce, abortion, etc.

Yes, of course we have the Church which makes a big difference.

But you are still wrong in stating it is not the same Jesus. I’m sure there are priests that are teaching things that are not that kosher.

 

[meltzerboy]

The same God!
The same God!

And I think those who follow the Jewish religion, the Buddhist religion…etc…that is the same God, too.
Not sure what others here think on that? Or what the, um, “official” position is on that?

After all, if we are taught there is only one God, then there is only one God. Period.
Even if someone else has a different way of trying to get to that God…it’s still, just one God, is it not?

God is God. No matter how differently someone wants to dress Him up or give a different name to call Him…

Even though I happen to agree with you, I must caution that you’re opening up Pandora’s box…once again! In a sense (as well as according to the Catechism, I believe), Jews do worship the same G-d as both Catholics and Protestants. However, what they do not believe, as you probably know, is that G-d is three Persons. IOW, they do not worship G-d Incarnate (Jesus) or G-d as a Triune G-d. But the monotheistic belief in G-d is the same in Judaism and Christianity since Jews are the “elder brothers and sisters” of Christians. The Catechism also speaks of monotheistic Islam as worshiping the same G-d; and here I’m opening Pandora’s box even wider. Buddhism is a little trickier, however. I’m no expert, but is there the belief in a personal G-d among Buddhists? There are different forms of Buddhism as well, aren’t there?

 

[TrueLight]

The same God!
The same God!

And I think those who follow the Jewish religion, the Buddhist religion…etc…that is the same God, too.
Not sure what others here think on that? Or what the, um, “official” position is on that?

After all, if we are taught there is only one God, then there is only one God. Period.
Even if someone else has a different way of trying to get to that God…it’s still, just one God, is it not?

God is God. No matter how differently someone wants to dress Him up or give a different name to call Him…

If all gods were the same God, then God would have no need to say “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.” After all, an ancient Egyptian worshiping Ra was still worshiping God.

 

[JRKH]

Greetings~
Well, here I am in a mess again.
My husband is a Lutheran and he was deeply offended when I told him that Catholics have a different God than Lutherans have because the way I saw it, there was no way it ever could be the same one, the qualities are too disimilar. Protestants are too quick to say we make everything up.
It’s a bit strange because if our God *is the same *then either we are all going to hell or they are all going to hell. Better choose wisely. I knew I needed to find out for sure…
My husband said oh sure, go to CAF and ask the Catholics but I told him that the people on these forums are completely unbiased and have schooled me when I have been wrong and enlightened me about things when I needed to know the truth. So that’s why I posted here again
Thanks so much for reading this thread,
Jen

Kitty - I’m afraid you got a bad hairball on this one…

Catholics and Lutherans worship the same God according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. From the section on “Wounds to Unity”
817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
(Bolding mine)​

It can be said that neither the Catholic Church nor the Lutheran Church has full knowledge of God - since we cannot fully comprehend Him. Our differences spring, not from having a different God but from a) different understandings of the written revelation and b) differing emphasis on various aspects of revelation.

Sit down with your husband and begin a dialogue about the similarities instead of the differences. Discuss terminology and what it means and you will find that we and the Lutherans are not really all that far apart.

Peace
James

P.S. I wonder what dear hubby will say when he finds out the folks on CAF agreed with him…

 

[meltzerboy]

Oy…and I tried so hard not to open a P’s Box this time and play really nice!
It must come naturally to me
Apparently, I had an ancestor in the Old Country who was a troublemaker centuries back (but in a good, handsome, “Braveheart” kinda way)…and his enemies cut his head off and carried it through town in triumph.
Dad says I have his blood.

Anyhoo…
I hear ya…but I guess I’m trying to say…that no matter what anyone believes…that if there is, indeed, just one God…and if that is fact and truth…then even if some of the beliefs or details are different in a different religion, the prayers can still only “lead” to one God up there.
(softening disclaimer: that’s how i see it, anyway)

Even if people think they are praying to “different” Gods…I still think it is the same one. (I mean, that’s my opinion…oy…trying very hard not to be controversial…)

I’m not up on all the details of Buddhism…(we have to call in the girl who is the “Catholic Buddhist” on the forum–I will fetch her!)…but even then, my thinking is that even if they are praying or chanting or meditating to what they call a “higher power” or an “inner God” (if that’s the case)…that is still the same God up there or swirling around us and in our hearts and pumping through our veins, whether they call it that or not.

Cause whatever is “up there” and “here” is just God.

And now, I think I’m repeating myself.

Take it away, MB!

As I stated, I agree with you, DaddyGirl. However, TrueLight also has a good point. And I didn’t mean YOU had opened up Pandora’s Box again; rather, this topic has been debated previously and vociferously. I appreciate the picturesque background details, however!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes, of course we have the Church which makes a big difference.

But you are still wrong in stating it is not the same Jesus. I’m sure there are priests that are teaching things that are not that kosher.

I don’t think I am wrong. Listening to their teachings proves as much.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

Anyhoo…
I hear ya…but I guess I’m trying to say…that no matter what anyone believes…that if there is, indeed, just one God…and if that is fact and truth…then even if some of the beliefs or details are different in a different religion, the prayers can still only “lead” to one God up there.
(softening disclaimer: that’s how i see it, anyway)

Even if people think they are praying to “different” Gods…I still think it is the same one. (I mean, that’s my opinion…oy…trying very hard not to be controversial…)

I’m not up on all the details of Buddhism…(we have to call in the girl who is the “Catholic Buddhist” on the forum–I will fetch her!)…but even then, my thinking is that even if they are praying or chanting or meditating to what they call a “higher power” or an “inner God” (if that’s the case)…that is still the same God up there or swirling around us and in our hearts and pumping through our veins, whether they call it that or not.

Cause whatever is “up there” and “here” is just God.

And now, I think I’m repeating myself.

Take it away, MB!

I can not agree with that. It sounds too much like “believe what you want, God is omniscient.”

 

[hn160]

I think we do, but Protestants as well as other Christians know a little less about that God than us

If you believe in the three Ecumenical Creed, you are a Christian and worship the same God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Three in One. Roman Catholics do not have the lock on God that they know more about God because they are under the Pope.

 

[JRKH]

If you believe in the three Ecumenical Creed, you are a Christian and worship the same God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Three in One. Roman Catholics do not have the lock on God that they know more about God because they are under the Pope.

I don’t know about others view this - but I am not “under the Pope” - rather I stand with the Pope under the Kingship of Christ.

I know this is a bit off topic, but I felt that this was worth a comment.

As to the rest, I tend to agree with you, though I do believe that the Catholic Church contains the “fullness of Truth” (in so far as it has been revealed by God)

Peace
James