"Not to Preach"

  • Thread starter Thread starter CyrilSebastian
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CyrilSebastian

Guest
In the hymn “As a Fire is Meant for Burning”, part of one verse is “Not to preach our creeds or customs, But to build a bridge of care,” Why would a hymn indicate that the congregation “not to preach” their “creeds or customs”?
 
In the hymn “As a Fire is Meant for Burning”, part of one verse is “Not to preach our creeds or customs, But to build a bridge of care,” Why would a hymn indicate that the congregation “not to preach” their “creeds or customs”?
You have to take it as a whole, including the second part. I think it’s saying that it’s better to “preach” by actions than by words.
 
You have to take it as a whole, including the second part. I think it’s saying that it’s better to “preach” by actions than by words.
Really? Then how do you convey the concept of the Trinitarian nature of God to JW’s? By Interpretative Dance???

😛
 
In the hymn “As a Fire is Meant for Burning”, part of one verse is “Not to preach our creeds or customs, But to build a bridge of care,” Why would a hymn indicate that the congregation “not to preach” their “creeds or customs”?
Because many of the hymns (which are not selected by the Church, but by publishing houses) are borderline heretical and often misguided. I’m sure I’ll take some heat for that, but 'tis the truth.
 
In the hymn “As a Fire is Meant for Burning”, part of one verse is “Not to preach our creeds or customs, But to build a bridge of care,” Why would a hymn indicate that the congregation “not to preach” their “creeds or customs”?
MY own take: we can preach all we want but our actions will speak a whole lot louder. I have hears so many people go on and on about being a Christian, but how they live their lives says something entirely different. And then they wonder why more people don’t convert or believe in God.

I don’t know who said this but I am sure we have all heard it: “Walk the talk.”
If you are not going to I think being silent is best.
 
Because many of the hymns (which are not selected by the Church, but by publishing houses) are borderline heretical and often misguided. I’m sure I’ll take some heat for that, but 'tis the truth.
You’ll get no heat from me… lots of lame songs out there.
 
I think it’s saying that it’s better to “preach” by actions than by words.
As my spiritual director says, “said no saint ever” :).

I think several people have hit on the notion that it’s a song that conveys perhaps unideal values for a Catholic.
 
Really? Then how do you convey the concept of the Trinitarian nature of God to JW’s? By Interpretative Dance???

😛
You can’t. It’s a waste of time, they’re brainwashed and fed through a deeply flawed Bible translation, and there’s nothing that the average Catholic can do when they knock on your door, only a trained psychologist or psychiatrist could possibly crack that nut open.

I have an excellent small book (in French) on the topic of JWs, written by a Catholic priest who was allowed to sit in on their assemblies. Of course they thought he was going to convert, he had no intention, he was there to learn (they eventually kicked him out when it became clear to them he wouldn’t convert). So he’s well-versed in their methods including the tricks they use to keep you in when you want out.

You just in fact do have to be a “bridge of care” for them especially if one of them is a member of your family. Sometimes the harsh requirements imposed on JWs starts to wear them down. Not everyone can stand to have 99 doors out of 100 slammed in their face, Saturday after Saturday, and not everyone can stand spending almost all of their free time devoted to bible study, going to assembly (including during the week, etc.), and not everyone can stand watching a child that needs a blood transfusion die.

The ones that finally see all that go through a very difficult period (shunning, etc.) when they leave. You need to be there for them. That’s why in a family situation you should never burn your bridges with a JW relative, always show them respect, and without validating their beliefs, walk a very wide circle around them.
 
I remember I once went to Mass with a friend, and one of the hymns had a line that said something to the extent of “You sent us not to preach to others, but to make people smile.” My friend leaned over to me after this line and whispered “Are we the only ones who remember the Great Commission?” I had a little chuckle out of that one.
 
You can’t. It’s a waste of time, they’re brainwashed and fed through a deeply flawed Bible translation, and there’s nothing that the average Catholic can do when they knock on your door, only a trained psychologist or psychiatrist could possibly crack that nut open…
I understand what you are saying, my point was a’ tongue in cheek’ (hence the smiley) way of noting that the Truths of our Church are complex in nature, and thus it would be foolish to believe “that it’s better to “preach” by actions than by words”
 
I understand what you are saying, my point was a’ tongue in cheek’ (hence the smiley) way of noting that the Truths of our Church are complex in nature, and thus it would be foolish to believe “that it’s better to “preach” by actions than by words”
I think you have to get their foot in the door first before one can preach. That’s where we, as laity, come in. Then there’s RCIA, homilies, etc, where the experts step in to preach and teach with words, when we’ve done our job of preaching by our actions 😉
 
Because many of the hymns (which are not selected by the Church, but by publishing houses) are borderline heretical and often misguided. I’m sure I’ll take some heat for that, but 'tis the truth.
This. This x1000.
 
Really? Then how do you convey the concept of the Trinitarian nature of God to JW’s? By Interpretative Dance???

😛
I understand what you are saying, my point was a’ tongue in cheek’ (hence the smiley) way of noting that the Truths of our Church are complex in nature, and thus it would be foolish to believe “that it’s better to “preach” by actions than by words”
Do we have any volunteers who would like to preach to nonbelievers what the Trinity is, and do it credibly, so that a nonbeliever might be prone to absorb it? 🙂 Is even the Pope able to do that? That’s a very difficult task. The Trinity is a mystery, as are many other things theological. The Trinity is also not just a dogma on paper, but a reality.

We can witness to the realities of our faith by living them. Preaching can obviously be a part of that. But living the faith makes it “real” for someone who does not understand or believe it. Our lives can show others this reality when words cannot fully suffice.
For example, the Trinity is three divine persons in loving relationship. Living in a Christian marriage is a witness to that relationship, a participation in this reality. Others can see this reality at work, even if they don’t explicitly understand it.
236 The Fathers of the Church distinguish between theology (theologia) and economy (oikonomia). “Theology” refers to the mystery of God’s inmost life within the Blessed Trinity and “economy” to all the works by which God reveals himself and communicates his life. Through the oikonomia the theologia is revealed to us; but conversely, the theologia illuminates the whole oikonomia. God’s works reveal who he is in himself; the mystery of his inmost being enlightens our understanding of all his works. So it is, analogously, among human persons. A person discloses himself in his actions, and the better we know a person, the better we understand his actions.
237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the “mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God”.58 To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even to Israel’s faith before the Incarnation of God’s Son and the sending of the Holy Spirit.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91
 
I think there is a difference between “preaching” and “teaching”. If you come across as preaching a sermon to people, you tend to turn them off. However, by witnessing to the love of Jesus through gentle teaching and interaction, you can help to turn others to Him. In terms of the JW question - again, you don’t preach a sermon about the Trinity; you just gently explain. Ideally, this conversation would result from a behaviour/non-threatening statement of yours that invited the person to open up to you and ask you that question. I love the quote from St. Francis of Assisi: “Preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words”. There are times when words are indeed necessary, but we are called to invite people to the Church through our lives, not by “standing on a street corner, yipping and hollering” (to quote a friend) 🙂
 
I think there is a difference between “preaching” and “teaching”. If you come across as preaching a sermon to people, you tend to turn them off. However, by witnessing to the love of Jesus through gentle teaching and interaction, you can help to turn others to Him. In terms of the JW question - again, you don’t preach a sermon about the Trinity; you just gently explain. Ideally, this conversation would result from a behaviour/non-threatening statement of yours that invited the person to open up to you and ask you that question. I love the quote from St. Francis of Assisi: “Preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words”. There are times when words are indeed necessary, but we are called to invite people to the Church through our lives, not by “standing on a street corner, yipping and hollering” (to quote a friend) 🙂
Except St. Francis never actually said that

and

Catholic saints have a venerable tradition of converting people by preaching, which goes all the way back to the Apostles.

I do not see why it is so hard to call a spade a spade and say many hymns that infect parishes nowadays are borderline heretical.
 
Apparently St. Peter in Acts 2:14 -41 was not using the right approach… even though 3000 converts were made that day…
 
Do we have any volunteers who would like to preach to nonbelievers what the Trinity is, and do it credibly, so that a nonbeliever might be prone to absorb it? 🙂 Is even the Pope able to do that? That’s a very difficult task. The Trinity is a mystery, as are many other things theological. The Trinity is also not just a dogma on paper, but a reality.

We can witness to the realities of our faith by living them. Preaching can obviously be a part of that. But living the faith makes it “real” for someone who does not understand or believe it. Our lives can show others this reality when words cannot fully suffice.
For example, the Trinity is three divine persons in loving relationship. Living in a Christian marriage is a witness to that relationship, a participation in this reality. Others can see this reality at work, even if they don’t explicitly understand it.
Do we normally sing Catholic hymns at Mass to either preach or teach to unbelievers?? The thread is about a song (“hymn”) published as a Mass song. If the above explanation was the intention, it could have been put forth in a homily rather than in a silly sounding song. I once heard an elderly priest ad lib the Eucharistic Prayer with this innovation (among many others) “make us a caring and sharing people.”

I am absolutely willing to do my Christian duty in any way… but “cuteness” like the lyrics of the song mentioned simply do not inspire me to exercise fortitude and give all for the sake of the Gospel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top