Not trying to blame but

  • Thread starter Thread starter maudite
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

maudite

Guest
My wife reentered the Catholic Church after her infidelity and through our process of coming back together which is still ongoing I became an honest believer and joined the church, baptism, confirmation, everything.

Ever since then our marriage has gone to ****. There is no more sex and if/when there is it is horrible and uncomfortable. There is an expectation for me to live up to biblical standards for the greatest men without exception. When I fail she lets me know my failures and tells me how to fix myself, what I need to do as if I were a child. She’s taken on this all knowing grandiosity that I can’t stand anymore. If I relate my feelings she tells me they are wrong and tells me what I am really feeling. If I have a problem with something in the house she corrects me and explains how it is a problem I created and what I need to do to fix it.

It is to the point now where I dread intimacy with her despite still feeling attracted to her when she’s capable of talking to me as a spouse and not a child in need of direction. She’s taken to giving me a list of things I need to do and dates when it needs to be done because I am apparently incapable of doing anything without her telling me how and what to do.

She causes me such immense shame for everything I do and do not do that I can’t take it anymore. The emotional blackmail, and turning everything onto me is too much. I’ve been told on many occasions that if I do not change my behavior to something she finds more appropriate that I will be responsible for the destruction of our family and dooming us all to a life of failure and unhappiness.

I do not want to attend church anymore. I dread going because I no longer enjoy it. There is so much shame I feel for all the things she says I do wrong that I don’t even want to face God in his house because I do not feel worthy of His mercy. Everything I do is wrong or lacking, everything I don’t do is wrong or lacking. I shut down emotionally at home and avoid talking as much as possible because anything could make me deserving of being told how wrong I am. When I get upset when she does these things she accuses me of being too sensitive and taking everything she says as a judgment. She encourages me to speak my mind, to tell her how I feel and says she will listen and accept it but there is no acceptance, there is only ridicule and correction.

I dare not tell her I do not want to attend church anymore. I’d then be responsible for the destruction of our family. I’m tired of feeling ashamed of everything I do.
 
Something is very wrong with your wife and your relationship and it’s not church. I encourage you to get some counseling individually if she will not go with you. Those sorts of behaviors are symptoms of a deep problem.

I hope you can find a way to separate what you wife is doing from your relationship with God. I know it is hard, but God loves you and the way your wife is acting has nothing to do with godly behavior, holiness, or Christian marriage.
 
Been to counseling together and separate until she refused to go anymore. She says she is changing her behavior and acknowledges her anger issues but seems to think that by not yelling these things at me it means she’s being nice. She’s always reminding me that she is not yelling. It’s nice to not be yelled at but when the words hurt it doesn’t make a difference what tone you actually say it with.
 
Criticism, contempt, defensiveness, shutting down…you are describing the recipe for a divorce. This has to stop, and it must stop immediately.

Make an appointment to talk with your pastor, explain your situation, and ask if he will help you to convince your wife that her damaging way of lodging complaints absolutely must stop. If your wife doesn’t believe you when you tell her that she is WAY out of bounds, maybe she will believe her pastor. At the very least, you will have someone assuring you that God has much more mercy than your wife does, and that your wife has been selling you a very false picture of how Catholic marriage works.

You might consider getting a copy of “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work,” by John Gottman. Still, sometimes marriages suffer because one or both spouses suffer from unaddressed psychological issues that make development of a deep and trusting friendship between the spouses intensely difficult, if not impossible. A relationship with your pastor will help you navigate that, and will also help you to separate what your wife says about God and the Church from the real story that your pastor can tell you.
 
maudite said:
Been to counseling together and separate until she refused to go anymore. She says she is changing her behavior and acknowledges her anger issues but seems to think that by not yelling these things at me it means she’s being nice. She’s always reminding me that she is not yelling. It’s nice to not be yelled at but when the words hurt it doesn’t make a difference what tone you actually say it with.
Click to expand...
When you tell someone they are hurting you and they argue with you, that is rough. When she tells you that she’s not yelling, you can tell her that this is good, thank you for that improvement, but most people want more from their best friend than a consistently low volume. You might ask her if she really thinks she’s being a best friend to you.

Keep getting your own counseling, because what saves your marriage may be your skill at drawing the line on her inappropriate behavior or guiding her to strategies of complaining that don’t attack your spirit. Whatever happens, you will know you tried.

If you think she might put more stock in what your pastor says than in what counselors say, then by all means try that route. Sometimes it takes a priest to wake up someone who thinks she is an “uber-Catholic.”
 
EasterJoy said:
Criticism, contempt, defensiveness, shutting down…you are describing the recipe for a divorce. This has to stop, and it must stop immediately.

Make an appointment to talk with your pastor, explain your situation, and ask if he will help you to convince your wife that her damaging way of lodging complaints absolutely must stop. If your wife doesn’t believe you when you tell her that she is WAY out of bounds, maybe she will believe her pastor. At the very least, you will have someone assuring you that God has much more mercy than your wife does, and that your wife has been selling you a very false picture of how Catholic marriage works.

You might consider getting a copy of “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work,” by John Gottman. Still, sometimes marriages suffer because one or both spouses suffer from unaddressed psychological issues that make development of a deep and trusting friendship between the spouses intensely difficult, if not impossible.
Click to expand...
Our therapist was a Nun recommended by our Priest and my wife rejected what she was telling her as soon as it conflicted with what my wife already “knows”. I’ve also tried getting her to read stuff but she refuses saying that she knows everything about it already and if I’d just listen to her we could have a wonderful marriage.

I don’t want a separation or divorce or anything else but I’m not sure what else to do here. She will not listen to me or anyone else at all. She knows everything and has every answer.
 
maudite said:
Our therapist was a Nun recommended by our Priest and my wife rejected what she was telling her as soon as it conflicted with what my wife already “knows”. I’ve also tried getting her to read stuff but she refuses saying that she knows everything about it already and if I’d just listen to her we could have a wonderful marriage.

I don’t want a separation or divorce or anything else but I’m not sure what else to do here. She will not listen to me or anyone else at all. She knows everything and has every answer.
Click to expand...
You need a lot of outside support. Even with that, I do not know how long you can endure her attacks on your person, particularly since she is totally unrepentant. You are in real spiritual and emotional danger–she is killing you a little bit every time she treats you in this way and she is undermining your faith. If her behavior comes between you and God, the game is totally over. Your marriage will be utterly doomed.

Your desire to keep your marriage together is absolutely praiseworthy, but merely managing to endure living at the same address with your tormentor is not keeping your marriage together. If something does not change, it will not only destroy your marriage. It will destroy a part of you, and the healing will not be easy or immediate. We ought to be wiling to be martyrs, but we ought not go out looking for someone to wind our entrails on a drum. If you keep it up over a long life, the only good outcome would still be a very long, drawn-out martyrdom for you and unless she came to accept the graces partly won by your sacrifices, ruin for her. That is not a good game plan.

I do not know how you get this through to your wife, but if you or someone else does not get her to wake up and amend herself, your marriage will probably not survive it. You may stay at the same address, you may continue to love her by the power of supernatural grace, but the unity and love God intends to sustain the married life will not survive without your wife’s cooperation.

You may want to arrange a meeting with your pastor and the sister who was your counselor. It may be that your wife has a personality disorder that precludes her from successfully attempting marriage. If she is merely stubborn and unwilling to learn ways of communicating with you that aren’t harmful, that needs to change now. She has you at the end of your rope. You need protection from what she is doing to you, and you need it urgently.
 
I think all the comments given are great and since I can not come up with anything else that may help. I will pray for you. I can only imagine what you are going throughbut as said in one of the above comments if she is taking a stand between you and God there are certain things that have to take priority as hard as that maybe.

Lord help him through this most trying time
Help his wife to see the error in her was
and the division she is bringing to Your sacrament of marriage.
Help them both to come to peace in You so that their bond can be healed.
 
EasterJoy said:
You may want to arrange a meeting with your pastor and the sister who was your counselor. It may be that your wife has a personality disorder that precludes her from successfully attempting marriage. If she is merely stubborn and unwilling to learn ways of communicating with you that aren’t harmful, that needs to change now. She has you at the end of your rope. You need protection from what she is doing to you, and you need it urgently.
Click to expand...
She has been diagnosed bipolar and when we were married in the church after coming back together from the infidelity she was on medication but has since stopped taking it. It is part of the problem but I dare not mention it again. I learned my lesson the previous times. She uses it against me. “You just think I’m crazy…”

I’ve tried to bring outside people in to help her but she gets angry with me for plotting against her and accuses me of trying to ruin the marriage and turn people against her. Then she’s not only mad at me but whoever I brought in to help and she develops a severe mistrust of them. She doesn’t trust me at all and the plotting against her thing is a common theme as well, or me doing things specifically to hurt her.

The big problem is she sees nothing wrong except with me. She’s told me I need to be on medication for anxiety and that I have mental issues I need to address and deal with. She applies my problems to my work. I’ve tried to tell her it’s how she treats me but that just makes her mad and it all gets turned around on me and how horribly I treat her. She’s even pulled out the bad father thing on multiple occasions.

I mostly just keep my mouth shut and try to anticipate anything she can complain about and fix it before it can become an issue. Do what she says and obey as my soul gets crushed and I try to protect my kids from becoming a target. Worst part is that she never remembers the mean things she says to me and when I have brought them up in the past she calls me a liar and accuses me of rewriting what she said to hurt her.
 
maudite said:
She has been diagnosed bipolar and when we were married in the church after coming back together from the infidelity she was on medication but has since stopped taking it. It is part of the problem but I dare not mention it again. I learned my lesson the previous times. She uses it against me. “You just think I’m crazy…”

I’ve tried to bring outside people in to help her but she gets angry with me for plotting against her and accuses me of trying to ruin the marriage and turn people against her. Then she’s not only mad at me but whoever I brought in to help and she develops a severe mistrust of them. She doesn’t trust me at all and the plotting against her thing is a common theme as well, or me doing things specifically to hurt her.

The big problem is she sees nothing wrong except with me. She’s told me I need to be on medication for anxiety and that I have mental issues I need to address and deal with. She applies my problems to my work. I’ve tried to tell her it’s how she treats me but that just makes her mad and it all gets turned around on me and how horribly I treat her. She’s even pulled out the bad father thing on multiple occasions.

I mostly just keep my mouth shut and try to anticipate anything she can complain about and fix it before it can become an issue. Do what she says and obey as my soul gets crushed and I try to protect my kids from becoming a target. Worst part is that she never remembers the mean things she says to me and when I have brought them up in the past she calls me a liar and accuses me of rewriting what she said to hurt her.
Click to expand...
You are describing a situation where you, by force of will, are trying to maintain the impossible façade that she needs no help for her condition and can do no wrong. It is as if she were an alcoholic or an addict who was using and denying that there was anything wrong with this.

As they would have you say in Al-Anon: I didn’t cause it, I can’t cure it, and I can’t control it. That is where you are with your wife’s condition. There is a classic book for co-dependents, written by Melody Beattie, entitled “Co-Dependent No More.” Your library probably has it. I’d encourage you to get a copy and read it.

Children experience damage when they have to see one parent abused by the other. It is damaging to them just as if they were being abused themselves. This is a very urgent situation, and it has to change soon. Please get yourself guidance about how to go about doing that.
 
All you can do for her is keep trying to get her the help that she needs and pray, pray, pray. In the meantime, look at what you can do for yourself. The Church teaches us what we can do on our own, to be able to live out our marriages:

1615 This unequivocal insistence on the indissolubility of the marriage bond may have left some perplexed and could seem to be a demand impossible to realize. However, Jesus has not placed on spouses a burden impossible to bear, or too heavy - heavier than the Law of Moses.108 By coming to restore the original order of creation disturbed by sin, he himself gives the strength and grace to live marriage in the new dimension of the Reign of God. It is by following Christ, renouncing themselves, and taking up their crosses that spouses will be able to “receive” the original meaning of marriage and live it with the help of Christ.109 This grace of Christian marriage is a fruit of Christ’s cross, the source of all Christian life.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm
 
CarrieSpooner said:
All you can do for her is keep trying to get her the help that she needs and pray, pray, pray. In the meantime, look at what you can do for yourself. The Church teaches us what we can do on our own, to be able to live out our marriages:

1615 This unequivocal insistence on the indissolubility of the marriage bond may have left some perplexed and could seem to be a demand impossible to realize. However, Jesus has not placed on spouses a burden impossible to bear, or too heavy - heavier than the Law of Moses.108 By coming to restore the original order of creation disturbed by sin, he himself gives the strength and grace to live marriage in the new dimension of the Reign of God. It is by following Christ, renouncing themselves, and taking up their crosses that spouses will be able to “receive” the original meaning of marriage and live it with the help of Christ.109 This grace of Christian marriage is a fruit of Christ’s cross, the source of all Christian life.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm
Click to expand...
If a spouse or a child is in danger or being abused, the Church does not require that the victims “take up their crosses”, however.

Code of Canon Law (boldface mine):

Art. 2.

SEPARATION WITH THE BOND REMAINING

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living** unless a legitimate cause excuses them**.

Can. 1152 §1. Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and concerned for the good of the family, not refuse forgiveness to an adulterous partner and not disrupt conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse did not condone the fault of the other expressly or tacitly, the spouse has the right to sever conjugal living unless the spouse consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or also committed adultery.

§2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse has had marital relations voluntarily with the other spouse after having become certain of the adultery. It is presumed, moreover, if the spouse observed conjugal living for six months and did not make recourse to the ecclesiastical or civil authority.

§3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently.

Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too difficult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.

§2. In all cases, when the cause for the separation ceases, conjugal living must be restored unless ecclesiastical authority has established otherwise.

Can. 1154 After the separation of the spouses has taken place, the adequate support and education of the children must always be suitably provided.

Can. 1155 The innocent spouse laudably can readmit the other spouse to conjugal life; in this case the innocent spouse renounces the right to separate.
 
Praying for you & your wife. Praying for your wife to get the help she needs.
 
You are in a very sad position and just want to add that I will pray for you.
 
maudite said:
“You just think I’m crazy…”
Click to expand...
Well, duh. Crazy is as crazy does.

And you can’t fix crazy.

I am sorry, I don’t have much advice other than to go to counseling by yourself to someone skilled at helping family members of those with mental illness.
 
1ke said:
Well, duh. Crazy is as crazy does.

And you can’t fix crazy.

I am sorry, I don’t have much advice other than to go to counseling by yourself to someone skilled at helping family members of those with mental illness.
Click to expand...
There are people with bipolar disorder who succeed at marriage, but they don’t do it by denying they are bipolar. It takes a great deal of patience for the couple under the best of circumstances. Some do it, though…it is not a boring kind of marriage.
 
Contempt is probably the worst and ugliest sentiment one spouse can have for the other. When relationships descend this far into the contempt being expressed, it is in grave danger, no two ways about that.

Believe John Gottman was the guy featured in Malcolm Gladwell’s Blink who said he could sit down with any married couple and watch them talk for just 15 minutes and predict with good accuracy whether they were going to get divorced within 5 years. Something like that. His diagnosis was simple to arrive at: he looked for signs of contempt in their conversation. Might not be in the words, might be in the non-verbal gestures and facial expressions. Read that chapter sometime, it’s enlightening. We’ve all known that couples have to watch how they communicate with each other … Gottman gives us a very good look at that. Among men, there is a slang term for women like the OP’s wife: bat---- crazy, the kind who give marriage a bad name. Of course bad conduct in marriage isn’t the sole province of women, men do it too. But this thread topic is about the OP’s wife and her conduct.

So back to the topic at hand: the OP is walking on eggshells, this is no way to conduct a relationship, let alone a marriage. What’s worse is the OP’s wife insists on rewriting history and doesn’t believe there is anything wrong with what she is saying or doing, but it’s clear she doesn’t believe in Ephesians 5.

I recall a good book, Stop Walking on Eggshells for dealing with those persons in one’s life who have Borderline Personality Disorder, not just spouses but friends, coworkers, children, parents, etc. The OP’s wife seems to fit many of the characteristics of BPD but I won’t say she is, she would need to be diagnosed by a professional. Which plays into another suggestion: try to rule out any possibility of medical conditions and/or drugs, etc., that might be causing her to act this way, before with moving on.

I can say the OP isn’t going to improve matters with more supplication. That’s only going to continue to play into her frame and the OP has already gotten more of that frame than he can handle. Remember insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. The OP needs to change things up. He is going to have to figure out how to stop her from continuing to dictate the terms and conditions of the household, how to set boundaries and enforce them, how to protect the children, how to take his leadership back.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top