Not understanding Catholicism

[Ontheway]

it is not what it retains but what it has added to the beliefs that may cause some to have concerns.

The church has changed the way it is doing business, but not the message which remains the same. IF you find that your church has changed the message, find another parish.
I have come across parishes that I find difficult to accept. A recent visit to a downtown church in Chicago is one such experience. I will not go there again, even though the priest was very entertaining, as was the Baptist choir and rhythm section near the altar.

Catholicism is under pressure as it tries to communicate its message to the modern world. But the Truth is there even under heavy camouflage.

 

[Reuben_J]

And you’ll keep seeing those statements. That’s many on CA’s standard position. That anyone who truly understands Catholicism would never leave it.

Doesn’t mean it’s true

But it is a commonly held position on this board.

I don’t know the exact figure if ever there is any but it is true that many who left Catholicism did not understand it or misunderstood it or indifferent to their faith and practices. These category of Catholics can easily fall prey to evangelizing anti-Catholic Protestants because they do not have what it takes to be the foundation of their faith belief.

Evidence of that can easily be gauged by ex-Catholic posters here who still misrepresented Catholic belief.

On the other hand, there are decidedly Catholics who understand their faith well but left anyway, but this category are more of exceptions rather than the rule. They are obviously rare and in the minority.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Is it possible for a Catholic to understand Catholicism and still “convert” ?

Why I am asking. Is because it seems it is pretty clear that many believe "If you understood Catholicism, you would be a Catholic "?

I know folks who believe the Catholic Church to be a true, valid Apostolic Church, but being Orthodox - and believing their Church is equally true, valid and Apostolic, see no real need to transfer.

Also know Catholic that became Orthodox and vice versa due to severe scandal. That is not to be taken lightly. A scandalous priest will kill any parish.

 

[Dorothy]

it is not what it retains but what it has added to the beliefs that may cause some to have concerns.

John 16:12 “I have much more to tell you but you cannot bear it now.”

 

[Padres1969]

But it is not about the model or the size of the church. Not even about unity. It is about the TRUTH. Either the message of RC church is THE TRUTH or it is not.

If you claim to have understood Catholicism and decided to be a druid, then either you did not find the truth in Catholicism or you are not seeking it.

Or you found what Catholicism sees as being truth… and rejected it as incorrect, incomplete or just wrong.

 

[ajcstr]

Yes that is true I guess. I just wanted to get a feel for this question with this thread. Many times I get the idea my statements and opinions are automatically considered “lacking” even before it is read by the mere fact that my religion doesn’t say Catholic.

Well, that is not something that’s limited to Catholics. I’m sure when I have discussions with many non-Catholics they think the same of me. Sometimes its just looking at the same thing from different points of view. A stained glass window looks very different from the inside of a building than it does from the outside but its the same window.

Even just within Christianity, there are people that have devoted their lives to their faith, but put them all in a room and I’m sure they would see something lacking in each other.

 

[MichaelP3]

Well, that is not something that’s limited to Catholics. I’m sure when I have discussions with many non-Catholics they think the same of me. Sometimes its just looking at the same thing from different points of view. A stained glass window looks very different from the inside of a building than it does from the outside but its the same window.

Even just within Christianity, there are people that have devoted their lives to their faith, but put them all in a room and I’m sure they would see something lacking in each other.

I can’t deny what you say here. But that is not my point being on a Catholic forum. Just trying to understand the "non Catholic " reception here. In other words, do people actually listen or just assume this person needs some information automatically.

Regards

 

[MichaelP3]

I saw you posed this question yesterday. Someone posed you a similar question: is it possible for one to understand
Protestantism and convert?

Understanding is one thing, and believing is another.

Your last sentence is very true.

I answered that question but the thread is “missing” now it seems

 

[MichaelP3]

John 16:12 “I have much more to tell you but you cannot bear it now.”

Fair enough. But as I am constantly being asked on here “how do you know?”. I can ask, how do you know? Any " extra belief". So how do you know? You probably have an “answer” but then I can just ask “how do you know” again? Untill you say but you believe it to be true. Then I will say “well done” and I have nothing to ask anymore!

 

[MichaelP3]

Well as St Peter said to Jesus where would I go. Once you understand that the CC was started by Christ and continued by his Apostles its hard to leave.

Come to understand that’s what the CC teaches or actually believe it? That is part of my point!

 

[CourtingTex]

Is it possible for a Catholic to understand Catholicism and still “convert” ?

Why I am asking. Is because it seems it is pretty clear that many believe "If you understood Catholicism, you would be a Catholic "?

I agree with that without question, as a former never to be again ever Catholic.

Those loyal Catholics since birth or converts from Protestant faiths certainly understand that view.

Truly, if I had a conviction of Catholicism was prior to becoming a Latter Day Saint, I would still be a Catholic. Of course not plans of coming back to Catholicism.

 

[Ontheway]

Or you found what Catholicism sees as being truth… and rejected it as incorrect, incomplete or just wrong.

Pretty tall order, I would say.
One could find certain aspects of the way some churches or some prelates practice somehow objectionable. Finding fault with the foundations of Catholic faith, on the other hand, might be a challenge, particularly for those who approach the study with no preconceived notions of what is wrong with Catholicism.

 

[CourtingTex]

Pretty tall order, I would say.
One could find certain aspects of the way some churches or some prelates practice somehow objectionable. Finding fault with the foundations of Catholic faith, on the other hand, might be a challenge, particularly for those who approach the study with no preconceived notions of what is wrong with Catholicism.

I walked away because Catholicism and I were not on the same page, so to speak.

Continue in growing my conviction regardless what anyone may say, print, broadcast, put online, etc.

The truth where I have been for years set me free so no one here or otherwise loyal to Catholicism could convince me otherwise.

Kind regards.

 

[PJM]

I know folks who believe the Catholic Church to be a true, valid Apostolic Church, but being Orthodox - and believing their Church is equally true, valid and Apostolic, see no real need to transfer.

Also know Catholic that became Orthodox and vice versa due to severe scandal. That is not to be taken lightly. A scandalous priest will kill any parish.

.dear brother in Christ

I ALMOST AGREE

The difference is the FULLNESS of God’s truth…

But I still have great admiration for the Orthodox faiths

GBY

 

[PJM]

Or you found what Catholicism sees as being truth… and rejected it as incorrect, incomplete or just wrong.

AND EXACTLY how do YOU PROVE that dear friend?

Blessings,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

quote Originally Posted by MichaelP3 View Post
Yes that is true I guess. I just wanted to get a feel for this question with this thread. Many times I get the idea my statements and opinions are automatically considered “lacking” even before it is read by the mere fact that my religion doesn’t say Catholic. end quote]

Well, that is not something that’s limited to Catholics. I’m sure when I have discussions with many non-Catholics they think the same of me. Sometimes its just looking at the same thing from different points of view. A stained glass window looks very different from the inside of a building than it does from the outside but its the same window.

Even just within Christianity, there are people that have devoted their lives to their faith, but put them all in a room and I’m sure they would see something lacking in each other.

MichaelP3,

I admit I DO look at one’s claimed faith before responding; but NOT in the sense of making or passing ANY judgment; only to know to whom I am addressing my comments.

I think my position is both very common and very prudent

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Come to understand that’s what the CC teaches or actually believe it? That is part of my point!

So MT friend, you’re suggesting that “OUR” {Catholicism’s… “the Catholic Church”} beliefs and understanding are “different”?.. Could you provide an example or two please.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[PJM]

I agree with that without question, as a former never to be again ever Catholic.

Those loyal Catholics since birth or converts from Protestant faiths certainly understand that view.

Truly, if I had a conviction of Catholicism was prior to becoming a Latter Day Saint, I would still be Hebrews 6:4-8

Likely not as you’re church does not accept the bible

As a fallen away “catholic” perhaps you can answer another question for ME [personally here]?

WHY is it former “catholic s” are so eager to share their apostasy as a seemingly “good thing?”

Blessings

Patrick

 

[Ontheway]

I agree with that without question, as a former never to be again ever Catholic.

Those loyal Catholics since birth or converts from Protestant faiths certainly understand that view.

Truly, if I had a conviction of Catholicism was prior to becoming a Latter Day Saint, I would still be a Catholic. Of course not plans of coming back to Catholicism.

Try Weigel’s “The truth of Catholicism”. You might like it.

 

[commenter]

Is it possible for a Catholic to understand Catholicism and still “convert” ?

Why I am asking. Is because it seems it is pretty clear that many believe "If you understood Catholicism, you would be a Catholic "?

This is confusing, because a Catholic may choose to leave **either **the Catholic Faith, **or **the Catholic Church, without leaving the other.

Most people who leave the Catholic Church, or Faith, or both, switch to secular. It usually is a gradual process. I have known persons, including some nuns, who had essentially left the Catholic Faith, but remained within their convent, or position in the Church. Rosemary Reuther was asked why she, who had rejected not only Christianity but even monotheism, had not left. She said “because the Church has the Xerox machine”.

I knew a few other people who very loudly left the Catholic Church. In fact they left it every year or so. But even though they proclaimed themselves Protestant they still had mostly Catholic mindset. These were my charismatic friends.

James Joyce understood Catholicism, but either he or his novel’s character felt he had to step outside the Church to be objective, as a writer.

Some people understand Catholicism, but have something in their lifestyle that that contradicts Catholicism, and refuse to give it up. So they join a church that accepts that practice, so they can get a benefit of Christianity in some degree, but still have their cake and eat it too.

Some people may understand Catholicism, but on philosophical grounds they reason to different logical conclusions, at least for themselves. This is rare, nowadays, because so few people have any idea what is meant by philosophy, logic, and reason. The era of philosophers like Will Durant is long gone, let alone Voltaire, etc.

The problem with this post, besides the ambiguity between Catholic Church and Catholic Faith, is what is meant by “understanding” Catholicism: intellectual understanding, or some other?

The crucial difference in those who convert out, is between the minority who switch to some other Christian group, and those who switch, or slide, into secularism. I think many who leave the Church **because **its teaching interferes with its lifestyle will later **after the fact ** come up with logical reasons, such as “I believe in a more biblical religion, or I believe in a more socially just, equality based religion,” etc. So it really is lifestyle.