Not understanding Matthew 12

[Monica4316]

Hi

There’s something I’ve been struggling with for several weeks now… I made a thread about it in the Spirituality forum but it still doesn’t make sense and I haven’t had an opportunity to speak with a priest I’m definitely going to speak to a priest… but I was wondering if anyone can please help me understand the theology behind Matthew 12, ie the unforgiveable sin.

I’ll try to explain simply… a while ago, I started getting really strong doubts about my conversion to Catholicism, fears that I’m going to hell for this, etc… I resisted these doubts at first. They were so persistent, that after a while, I began to give in to them more. For some reason, whenever I would give into them, afterwards it would be really difficult to believe in God’s mercy and goodness - it’s like whatever was telling me these things, didn’t communicate in a loving, gentle way. At one point, I felt very strongly that the ways I experienced God’s love as a Catholic - were all delusions or deceptions from the devil, and that God wants me to repent of having accepted them, and leave the Church. I resisted this feeling and forced myself to believe that God is merciful and good.

But after a while, I got that temptation again… this came at a time of great confusion for me… and I accepted it, for a time. I seriously considered the possibility that all the ways God has worked in my life have actually not been God, not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, but that they were demonic deceptions. At the same time, I realized that those events were GOOD… but I rejected both the events, and the knowledge I had of God’s love. For example, one time at Adoration, Jesus showed me His mercy and healed me of something (spiritually)… that is clearly of the Holy Spirit, but I felt strongly that it was a deception (and consented to the feeling).

I wasn’t comfortable with this thought though… it didn’t seem right to me… and after a bit of time, I started fighting it again. I once more forced myself to believe.

Well ever since that time… God seems so far away. I can’t seem to reach Him. There have been a few times when I felt His presence, or felt love for Him, but mostly I’ve just felt emptiness… and like He’s rejected me. I’ve been worrying SO much about committing the unforgiveable sin. People have tried to explain to me why I’m forgiveable, and what the Church teaches, but I just don’t understand it!! whenever I think of what I had done, I feel with such certainty that I’m lost…

The problem is that I don’t see any difference between what I did, and what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12… they attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil… so did I… I looked up the Greek translation and it implies not just blaspheming the Holy Spirit, but His actions, and that’s what i’ve done…

I looked up the Catholic and the Orthodox understanding of the unforgiveable sin, and it seems to be the same, - the teaching is that it involves unrepentance… I am repentant, but I’m still so afraid! I can’t seem to convince myself that I’m forgiveable… I wish I could talk to a priest, because generally that’s always helped me, but for the past two weeks I haven’t been able to get transportation to the church

I was wondering, if you had any thoughts… I don’t see what I have done as being any different from what the Pharisees did… I believed that something obviously good is from the devil, when it’s really from the Holy Spirit… the only argument I can come up with is that I believed this under great pressure, and I was confused, and since i’m repentant; I’m not hardened against the Holy Spirit or rejecting His grace in my life… but even now, I often feel tempted to commit the same sin again, however I fight the temptation now.

thanks!!!

 

[Robert_Burns]

Hi

There’s something I’ve been struggling with for several weeks now… I made a thread about it in the Spirituality forum but it still doesn’t make sense and I haven’t had an opportunity to speak with a priest I’m definitely going to speak to a priest… but I was wondering if anyone can please help me understand the theology behind Matthew 12, ie the unforgiveable sin.

I’ll try to explain simply… a while ago, I started getting really strong doubts about my conversion to Catholicism, fears that I’m going to hell for this, etc… I resisted these doubts at first. They were so persistent, that after a while, I began to give in to them more. For some reason, whenever I would give into them, afterwards it would be really difficult to believe in God’s mercy and goodness - it’s like whatever was telling me these things, didn’t communicate in a loving, gentle way. At one point, I felt very strongly that the ways I experienced God’s love as a Catholic - were all delusions or deceptions from the devil, and that God wants me to repent of having accepted them, and leave the Church. I resisted this feeling and forced myself to believe that God is merciful and good.

But after a while, I got that temptation again… this came at a time of great confusion for me… and I accepted it, for a time. I seriously considered the possibility that all the ways God has worked in my life have actually not been God, not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, but that they were demonic deceptions. At the same time, I realized that those events were GOOD… but I rejected both the events, and the knowledge I had of God’s love. For example, one time at Adoration, Jesus showed me His mercy and healed me of something (spiritually)… that is clearly of the Holy Spirit, but I felt strongly that it was a deception (and consented to the feeling).

I wasn’t comfortable with this thought though… it didn’t seem right to me… and after a bit of time, I started fighting it again. I once more forced myself to believe.

Well ever since that time… God seems so far away. I can’t seem to reach Him. There have been a few times when I felt His presence, or felt love for Him, but mostly I’ve just felt emptiness… and like He’s rejected me. I’ve been worrying SO much about committing the unforgiveable sin. People have tried to explain to me why I’m forgiveable, and what the Church teaches, but I just don’t understand it!! whenever I think of what I had done, I feel with such certainty that I’m lost…

The problem is that I don’t see any difference between what I did, and what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12… they attributed the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil… so did I… I looked up the Greek translation and it implies not just blaspheming the Holy Spirit, but His actions, and that’s what i’ve done…

I looked up the Catholic and the Orthodox understanding of the unforgiveable sin, and it seems to be the same, - the teaching is that it involves unrepentance… I am repentant, but I’m still so afraid! I can’t seem to convince myself that I’m forgiveable… I wish I could talk to a priest, because generally that’s always helped me, but for the past two weeks I haven’t been able to get transportation to the church

I was wondering, if you had any thoughts… I don’t see what I have done as being any different from what the Pharisees did… I believed that something obviously good is from the devil, when it’s really from the Holy Spirit… the only argument I can come up with is that I believed this under great pressure, and I was confused, and since i’m repentant; I’m not hardened against the Holy Spirit or rejecting His grace in my life… but even now, I often feel tempted to commit the same sin again, however I fight the temptation now.

thanks!!!

According to Theologians there are Chiefly 6 sins identified as Sins against the Holy Ghost as Specified in Matthew 12 There are : despair, presumption, impenitence, obstinacy, resisting truth, and envy of another’s spiritual welfare.

 

[maurin]

Monica,

You are fortunate have as a namesake St. Monica, the mother of the great St Augustine. I recommend, if you are so inclined and have not yet already done so, to learn about her, and ask her to help you, an to pray to God on your behalf.

Another mighty advocate is St Michael the Archangel. When I pray alone, I alter the prayer in the following way:

St Michael the Archangel defend me in these battles
Be my protection against the wickedness and the snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, I humbly pray,
And do thou, Prince of the Heavenly Host
By the power of God, cast into hell satan
And all evil spirits who prowl about me seeking the ruin of my soul. Amen.

Ande of course, speak to a good and Holy Priest who can help you to discern these doubts and their origin, and can offer recommend appropriate Spiritual Direction. Please do not hesitate any longer to doso. It is one of the devil"s snares this hesitation.

Accept my prayers for you, please.

 

[Jacqueline_1156]

It has always been my belief that when a person converts or reverts to Catholicism doubts will, in many cases, surface. Why? We are dealing with the spiritual and the on-going battle for souls. Those who are new to the faith, as you seem to be, and those that are weak in the faith i.e., don’t study the Bible or Catechism (get involved somehow) seem to be attacked much more frequently and viciously then others. In as much as God wants your love and devotion He won’t force it upon you. The devil, however, will attack from all fronts. Have you ever read C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters”? It’s very enlightening.
If I could recommend doing anything I would suggest that in addition to speaking with a priest you might consider joining a Bible study, a Catechism class (even if it’s RCIA), or an Apologist class. Personally, I have taken all three and found that the more I learned the more ammunition I had to combat the devil and his minions. It will help tremendously.
The Bible class helped me to understand how the OT foretold the NT (how the NT fulfilled the prophecies of the OT) and to see connections between the two I otherwise would never have seen.
The Catechism class helped me see how the Bible relates to the Church. Remember the Church came first and then it put the Bible together.
The Apologist class helped me to learn how to defend the Faith. I learned an awful lot in this class especially since I came in with the attitude of “Defend it to me!” It did.
Read Matthew 12: 43-45. Fill your “house” with the things of the Lord and no unclean spirit will be able to inhabit it. They will beat at the door and aggravate you but don’t give up and don’t give in. Christ indwells with you.
I want you to know that I have struggled with whether or not I was rejecting Holy Spirit at various times in my life. I think the Pharisees rejected Holy Spirit when they constantly sought to find fault with Jesus. They were very aware of the teachings of their religion. They, also, knew that there had been many before Jesus claiming to be Messiah. I can only see that the pride they held within themselves blinded them to what the common people and some Rabbis’ saw and came to know. They were, also, so focused on The Letter of the Law that they missed The Spirit of the Law. Only God knows what they truly believed but you are not them. You have been taught and have accepted the Gospels now you need to shore up that knowledge (the armor, the helmet, the sandal, etc), learn it and live it. When the devil talks to you he yells at you to drown out every thing else. When God speaks to you it is in a “still, small voice”. Evil pushes. Your guardian angel nudges. Evil rationalizes it’s intent. Goodness is plain and needs no excuse. Evil takes what is good and perverts it. You are fighting a spiritual battle and you have a slew of weapons at your disposal. Use them and know that if you ask, sincerely, that Holy Spirit will be with you.
P.S. I refer to Holy Spirit with out a “the” in front of it as Holy Spirit is the third “person”, and not a thing or it, in the Holy Trinity. Just wanted to clear that up if you had a question regarding it. I really hope this helps. You are in my prayers.

 

[Deb_H]

Lovey , all over your post you keep talking about what you FEEL is right and how you dont FEEL forgivable … I am glad you keep resisting these attacks of doubt btw , its needful that you look at what the church teaches about these things , not how you feel about them . Its a faith based decision to believe all that the church teaches , else why be Catholic you know … You are doing so well fighting , I know it gets tireing but keep your chin up and continue to believe as the Chuch teaches . The reason you are NOT unforgiveable is that you doubted HONESTLY . thats absolutely different no matter what you FEEL about it . I also struggle with feelings and you know what ? Feelings are not Facts . Lots of times folks are attacked for making a profession of faith and deciding to live a life as free from sin as possible with Jesus help . Put on the armor of God and keep us posted cause we will be praying for you to have the strength of the Lord ! hugs

 

[r4j]

I agree with all your friends (brothers and sisters in Christ). It seems you need a spiritual director to help you sort this out. Fr. Corapi says the devil has access to the lower faculties of the soul - the emotions, feelings but he does not have access to intellect and will unless you allow it. You were much less of a threat to the enemy before converting, now you’re a threat. I just completed reading the Mountain of Silence for the 3rd time. You may want to read the passages on logismoi. I suffered bitter attacks and through spiritual direction and prayer and other ascetic practices, you progress and great stronger. We are all with you, we have to be, one body, one body in Christ. You can draw on all of us.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you everyone

can someone please help me understand the Catholic teaching on the unforgiveable sin? or at least clarify it for me? Maybe the devil is using my fear of losing God… but what I did seems so similar to what the Pharisees did, that this really confuses me. Maybe my motive was different… I’ll definitely speak to a priest, and I’m also planning on finding a spiritual director, but I can only look for one in September cause I’ll be moving.

Also… I really want to be with God and to love Him… would you say that this is a grace and an action of the Holy Spirit in my life?

Ever since my conversion, I’ve been really trying to learn more about the faith, but sometimes I really second guess myself and my own research… that’s why I ask so many questions lol

God bless!

 

[CB_Catholic]

Thank you everyone

can someone please help me understand the Catholic teaching on the unforgiveable sin? or at least clarify it for me? Maybe the devil is using my fear of losing God… but what I did seems so similar to what the Pharisees did, that this really confuses me. Maybe my motive was different… I’ll definitely speak to a priest, and I’m also planning on finding a spiritual director, but I can only look for one in September cause I’ll be moving.

Also… I really want to be with God and to love Him… would you say that this is a grace and an action of the Holy Spirit in my life?

Ever since my conversion, I’ve been really trying to learn more about the faith, but sometimes I really second guess myself and my own research… that’s why I ask so many questions lol

God bless!

I have always been taught that the unforgiveable sin, or the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is final impenitence, a final and total rejection of God. If one really loves God and wants to be with Him, how could one have committed the unforgiveable sin?

 

[Monica4316]

I have always been taught that the unforgiveable sin, or the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is final impenitence, a final and total rejection of God. If one really loves God and wants to be with Him, how could one have committed the unforgiveable sin?

Hi CB, I’m afraid that when I thought that the ways God has worked in my life are from the devil, even though I could see that those things were good… I’m afraid that changed my soul somehow, and made me unable to respond to the Holy Spirit… but I don’t know if this is the case or not… does that make sense? I’m not really sure what to think whenever I read Matthew 12 I get scared about it…

 

[r4j]

Hi Monica,
In my study of the faith, I learned that there is a methodology on how Catholics should read the bible. If I am remembering correctly, first you must read the bible as a totality. You can’t take any one piece out of context. Maybe you’re (our some non-holy spirit is causing you) to focus on this one passage too much. Second, you must read the bible in light of the oral Tradition of the church - what Jesus said and did. And third, you must read the bible in light of the teachings of the magisterium of the church - the official teaching office of the church. We can’t read the bible and start interpreting it ourselves - we’ll end up with as many interpretatations as there are people reading it. The magisterium takes the pressure off by offering one authentic and authoritative voice.
I agree with CB, if you desire to love God, etc. then how can say you are comitting sin - never mind unforgiveable sin. Just because you may have had a negative thought, that does not mean you are cut off. I would read about logismoi and what the holy elders advise on them in the book The Mountain in Silence. I think it will give you some solace.
I am not clergy, but I have been taught that often you can judge what is from God and what is not by its fruits. If something produces calmness, peace, love, etc. most likely it’s from God. If something causes confusion, fear, division, etc. it is likely not from God.

 

[WFS5801]

Hi Monica,

It sounds like you may be suffering from “scruples.”

From the Catholic Encyclopedia: *"(Latin Scrupulus, “a small sharp, or pointed, stone”, hence, in a transferred sense, “uneasiness of mind”)

An unfounded apprehension and consequently unwarranted fear that something is a sin which, as a matter of fact, is not. It is not considered here so much as an isolated act, but rather as an habitual state of mind known to directors of souls as a “scrupulous conscience.” St. Alphonsus describes it as a condition in which one influenced by trifling reasons, and without any solid foundation, is often afraid that sin lies where it really does not. This anxiety may be entertained not only with regard to what is to be done presently, but also with regard to what has been done." *

Full article at newadvent.org/cathen/13640a.htm

The sense of desolation could also be “the dark night of the soul” spoken of by spiritual writers. (From Wikipedia.)

*"Typically for a believer in the dark night of the soul, spiritual disciplines (such as prayer and consistent devotion to God) suddenly seem to lose all their experiential value; traditional prayer is extremely difficult and unrewarding for an extended period of time during this “dark night.” The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed. It is important to note however that the presence of doubt is not tantamount to abandonment – there is strongly Biblical tradition of authentic confusion before God (Psalms 13, 22, and 34 display King David, the ‘man after God’s own heart’ undergoing serious confusion and anguish at God, yet this is not condemned or mentioned as unfaithful, but rather the only measure of faith that David could have in the face of such withering abandonment).

Rather than resulting in devastation, however, the dark night is perceived by mystics and others to be a blessing in disguise, whereby the individual is stripped (in the dark night of the senses) of the spiritual ecstasy associated with acts of virtue. Although the individual may for a time seem to outwardly decline in their practices of virtue, they in reality become more virtuous, as they are being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God. It is this purgatory, a purgation of the soul, that brings purity and union with God."*

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul

If you are still struggling and praying to God, you have not committed the “unforgivable sin.”

 

[CB_Catholic]

Hi CB, I’m afraid that when I thought that the ways God has worked in my life are from the devil, even though I could see that those things were good… I’m afraid that changed my soul somehow, and made me unable to respond to the Holy Spirit… but I don’t know if this is the case or not… does that make sense? I’m not really sure what to think whenever I read Matthew 12 I get scared about it…

I don’t think, Monica, that someone who has committed the unforgiveable sin would care about it or worry about it. They have totally and finally rejected God. It is as if God does not exist. If you care about God, if you worrry about commiting this sin, you have not done it. The Pharisees were attributing the healing of the demoniac to Satan because they rejected Jesus, basically. If you haave not rejected Jesus, you haven’t committed the unforgiveable sin.

I think the evil one is trying to confuse you, which is what he is good at. Do not buy into it. When those thoughts occur, immediately reject them. You know that good things cannot come from the evil one. As for responding to the Holy Spirit, whenever you reject the thoughts the evil one tries to harrass you with, you are responding to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is who gives you discernment. I know that if one has a tendency to be scrupoulous it is difficult to discern some things. You might benefit by talking to a priest or a spiritual director.

 

[just_came_back]

growing up in a holy rolling pentecostal church, we youngsters were told if we laughed at people who spoke in tongues or laughed at those who got up and ran up and down the aisles of the church that THAT was “mocking the Holy Ghost” and we would burn in Hell for eternity.

The sin, as previous noted, is the all ending rejection of Jesus. The Jews of Jesus day sealed their fate due to their unbelief.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you

I feel slightly better today… the way I understand it, the reason I committed that sin is because of fear and doubt, and because I was afraid that it was God who was telling me those things. It didn’t come from an inner rejection of God, that I’m aware of.

Hopefully I’ll get to go to Confession on Tuesday and speak to a priest… until then, I will pray to Our Lady for faith.

I think the devil knows that fear is one of my weaknesses… he’s used this against me many times.

I looked up “logismoi” orthodoxwiki.org/Logismoi

can a person potentially commit the unforgiveable sin through this sort of temptation? Or would it always be forgiveable because it didn’t come from them originally, and was the result of confusion? My understanding is that the unforgiveable sin isn’t just a thought or an action, but it is accompanied by a certain hardness of heart… if a person is really seriously tempted - without realizing that they’re being tempted - I guess the right word would be suggestion, or deception… does that take away any of the culpability in this case?

I hope that Confession would help…

 

[r4j]

Thank you

can a person potentially commit the unforgiveable sin through this sort of temptation? Or would it always be forgiveable because it didn’t come from them originally, and was the result of confusion? My understanding is that the unforgiveable sin isn’t just a thought or an action, but it is accompanied by a certain hardness of heart… if a person is really seriously tempted - without realizing that they’re being tempted - I guess the right word would be suggestion, or deception… does that take away any of the culpability in this case?

Hi Monica,
I believe it is correct to say that if you are duped and then realize it and take the appropriate corrective action - contrition, confession, firm purpose of amendment - then you are forgiven. Of course the wound still needs healing through spiritual practices. And then of course, you have to not fall into presumption - ‘Oh I know I can screw up because God has to forgive me.’

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks!!

I’m trying to trust in God’s mercy and things are going better… today’s Mass really helped, which I didn’t expect at all.

God bless!

 

[Robert_Burns]

I have always been taught that the unforgiveable sin, or the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is final impenitence, a final and total rejection of God. If one really loves God and wants to be with Him, how could one have committed the unforgiveable sin?

Thats one of them.

Despair, which against the Virtue of Hope.

Presumption, is assuming you are going to heaven no matter what and robs the soul of a knowledge of the Gravity of Sin.

Impenitence, is as you stated - a rejection of GOD’S Grace

Obstinacy: Rooted in the Sin of Pride - denies a Truth or Truths of Our Faith or Obedience.

Resisting truth, Once known by the Gifts of the Holy Ghost - we are convicted and must obey GOD’S truths revealed - like Catholic Dogma for example. Its always binding. we cannot pick and choose which Dogmas we want to believe and which we dont.

Envy of another’s spiritual welfare which of course is the Sin against the Virtue of Charity - True Charity being the most important of all the virtues.