Not wanting kids.... Is this a sin?

[TemplarKnight1]

Life has its downs, but it also has its ups and I am not denying that… but being in a state of nothing (the void of nothingness) is at the very best… neutral.

In a state of nothingness, there is nobody to be deprived or nobody to enjoy. It’s just… nothing. Nobody loses, nobody gains.

Oh dear Templar - I am so sorry that your outlook on life is so grim. If we were closer, I’d invite you to spend one day with me at a Special Olympics tournament. There are hundreds of people who are made fun of, bullied, and who struggle for years to try and accomplish simple skills that little children learn in a few days without thinking.

They have every reason in the world to be miserable and see the world exactly as you do. And yet… a more joyful, happy group of people you will never encounter on this planet. And volunteers who devote countless hours over years and years because… they want to bask in the indescribable joy these blessed people bring to the world.

I thought my own life was over when I found out my unborn child would have Down syndrome. What a silly goose I was. This child took someone who had a pessimism much like yours and turned me into one overflowing with joy. We are poor yes. We have many worries and fears. But God made this world and it IS GOOD! Remember St. John of the Cross? Naked, cold, thrown in a ditch, lying in his own excrement and turned on by his own Church. And how did he spend his “miserable” existence? He wrote love poetry to God in his head. Some of the most exquisite love poetry man has ever written.

I questioned some of the adult athletes on our local SO team. One by one they all admitted to being bullied, beat up, tortured and made fun of through school. And one by one they said, “its OK, I’m still here and they just don’t understand, I forgave them and let it go.” Pretty darn close to “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.”

I will pray for you my brother. Perhaps life is not so miserable as the eyes you are seeing it through.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

There are **enough **kids suffering out there… why not just adopt instead of continuing to procreate and add to the broken-ness of an already broken world (or at least do something to improve their condition instead of adding another potential casualty) ?

 

[TemplarKnight1]

Still don’t think life is miserable? Just look at the Prayer Intentions section.

 

[sojo]

Templar, you see nothingness but I see God. You see brokenness but I see Jesus. You see despair, but I see hope.

You think my sight is impaired? I say we both see different sides of the same world, and I choose to see the world through the eyes of Christian faith, hope and love.

Adopting children is a good and worthy choice, especially if you can’t have biological children. But giving birth to your own child is a blessing from God… an opportunity to join in his enormous creative power. But of course if one hates life, then one has no reason to want to participate in bringing forth life. It all stems from the filters with which you are viewing life.

Praying for you!

 

[MaryLouItalia]

There are so many couples wanting to adopt children but they can’t because the procedures are long and very expensive or there are nations that block adoptions to Westerners or, news of these weeks, the 1st minister (muslim, Turkey) says: we want back the Turkish children adopted by christian couples Turkish or not (and also a child adopted by a Dutch lesbian couple) because they’ll grow up in a different culture and above all religion. Sometimes there are so many bureaucratic obstacles (and monetary) and not, that prevent the realization of this wish.
Truly, I can understand your worries but I strongly suggest you to think also that wars, cruelty, innocent deaths and above all sinners, there was in the past and there will be now and in the future. The human race is imperfect, the human race is still here in spite of everything. Love, hope, laughters, tears, etcetera, makes us specials, unique.
Like sojo, I can see hope. No one is saying that we must pretend to be blind and deaf, and doesn’t speak about it but, if we declare us CHRISTIANS, WE MUST HAVE HOPE otherwise we haven’t anything else (like the ‘world’). We’ll live in desperation with a hellish life.

p.s.: I’m a single woman, I have a strong desire to be mother but in my country singles can’t adopt.

 

[tafan]

…

I’m poorly catechized? I beg to differ. I am seeing things realistically. I grew up and was immersed in more than 20 years of hardcore Catholicism and studying the faith.
…

You say you are not poorly catechized, yet you follow the ideas of David Benetar. His four premises:

• The presence of pain is bad.
• The presence of pleasure is good.
• The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.
• The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation

Are all very much opposed to a Catholic worldview. How do you reconcile this? Do you really think the presence of pain is always bad and the presence of pleasure always good? Even Benetar has to treat these premises as absolutes in order to justify his antinatalism. But, as many modern philosophers, he must simple day-to-day human experiences if he is to accept as absolute some of his premises.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

I’m not saying you are impaired.

I am not saying that you shouldn’t hope either.

All I am saying is… why create in the first place? For what purpose? For what ends? Why keep creating? Because God told us to go forth and multiply? What if we don’t want to? Is this a sin?

The absence of people / someone can never hurt anyone anyway because there is nothing there.

“Nobody is being deprived of anything in a state of nothingness.”

“We create the need, therefore, the need exists.”

Templar, you see nothingness but I see God. You see brokenness but I see Jesus. You see despair, but I see hope.

You think my sight is impaired? I say we both see different sides of the same world, and I choose to see the world through the eyes of Christian faith, hope and love.

Adopting children is a good and worthy choice, especially if you can’t have biological children. But giving birth to your own child is a blessing from God… an opportunity to join in his enormous creative power. But of course if one hates life, then one has no reason to want to participate in bringing forth life. It all stems from the filters with which you are viewing life.

Praying for you!

 

[TemplarKnight1]

Good of you to bring up Benatar.

You say you are not poorly catechized, yet you follow the ideas of David Benetar. His four premises:

• The presence of pain is bad.
• The presence of pleasure is good.
• The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.
• The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation

Are all very much opposed to a Catholic worldview. How do you reconcile this? Do you really think the presence of pain is always bad and the presence of pleasure always good? Even Benetar has to treat these premises as absolutes in order to justify his antinatalism. But, as many modern philosophers, he must simple day-to-day human experiences if he is to accept as absolute some of his premises.

I don’t necessarily agree with Benatar’s first two points… but I can agree on these two.

“The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.” ----> I like that.

“The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation”

These notions do not necessarily conflict with Catholicism.

 

[PatriceA]

There are **enough **kids suffering out there… why not just adopt instead of continuing to procreate and add to the broken-ness of an already broken world (or at least do something to improve their condition instead of adding another potential casualty) ?

Because I’m Catholic, I made a vow when I entered the Sacrament of Matrimony to be open to life, from birth until death. To be closed to procreating would make my marriage invalid.

You seem to be implying that new souls born into a very healthy marriage are in a worse condition than if they had never been born at all. Was your home life growing up broken or something? Have you never seen a marriage that is blessed and holy with a home that provides security and comfort for all that enter the home? Are there no good people in your life that helps you see the goodness in this world? If you are always seeing the “broken-ness” in this world, maybe you should think about the type of people that are surrounding you. Someone or some thing is bringing you down.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

I understand that in marriage, the couple must be open to having children. But I am not talking about context of marriage. I am talking about not having kids in context to a single, chaste life.

Because I’m Catholic, I made a vow when I entered the Sacrament of Matrimony to be open to life, from birth until death. To be closed to procreating would make my marriage invalid.

You seem to be implying that new souls born into a very healthy marriage are in a worse condition than if they had never been born at all. Was your home life growing up broken or something? Have you never seen a marriage that is blessed and holy with a home that provides security and comfort for all that enter the home? Are there no good people in your life that helps you see the goodness in this world? If you are always seeing the “broken-ness” in this world, maybe you should think about the type of people that are surrounding you. Someone or some thing is bringing you down.

 

[PatriceA]

I understand that in marriage, the couple must be open to having children. But I am not talking about context of marriage. I am talking about not having kids in context to a single, chaste life.

I quoted your post about adopting instead of procreating. Were you talking about in the context of marriage or as a single?

 

[123Strontium]

nuns don’t have kids. I don’t suppose not having them is a sin in itself. But if one practices procreation, it is for producing children not pleasure, is the catholic line.

 

[brierpatch1974]

I always said I would never marry. Even had a shirt that said not all men are fools, some are bachelors. I have been. Married now for 15 years and we have three beautiful boys.

Do to a medical condition my wife was told to abort our first child. We both refused that advice as soon as it was given. He is now 14 and while the smallest in his class he is also the smartest and in the gifted program. So much for dr saying he would be mentally retarded or even brain dead.

God knows what he is doing. The best way to see that God loves us and has a sense of humor is to make plans about how you want your life to go. He will prove you wrong and give you blessings you never imagined possible.

 

[tcay584]

I hope it’s not a sin and can’t really imagine how it could be. Hubby and I have been married for many years and been unable to conceive. I am thrilled with this! We can do what we want, when we want, with no restrictions (except the dog). We don’t have to save for college, a car, or anything other than us. Mind you, if God decided He wanted us to have children, we’d be fine with that too and do the best we could to be the best parents we could. However…He hasn’t gone that way and I am so Yay about it! I suppose it’s the degree to which you “don’t want”. If you are totally closed to the idea to the point you’d commit sin (contraception), then don’t get married. Or find a female who is naturally barren (no tubes tied or hysterectomies). The Church doesn’t force us to go to extremes to conceive. You do sound a bit immature though insofar as you use your general displeasure with the state of affairs in the world as justification to prevent someone else (who might really like the world, or change it) from joining it. Your opinion is your own, and if you think God’s doing such a crummy job with the world, you need to speak to Him about it.

 

[tafan]

Good of you to bring up Benatar.

I don’t necessarily agree with Benatar’s first two points… but I can agree on these two.

“The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.” ----> I like that.

“The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation”

These notions do not necessarily conflict with Catholicism.

But without the first two points, Benetar’s conclusion that it is bad to procreate falls apart. And by agreeing with the philosophers you site, it is not jus a matter of not having children being moral, they propose that having children is a moral wrong. I would say that is certainly heretical. So while you may not be sinning because you do not want children, you are sinning be espousing agreeing and espousing these men.

 

[Sarcelle]

“The list is endless of the horrible conditions of how the human race has lived under the course of its history.”

You have just given me food for thought when it comes to meditating on the sorrowful mysteries of the rosary. This earth is called the vale of tears but God came down to earth in human form to partake in human life, all it’s sorrows and suffering ultimately ending his life on a cross, despised and mocked. All this for love of the very beings who mocked and put him to death.

Back on the topic of having children, I’ve actually have heard people say that they are all for abortion since the babies don’t have to suffer living in this world and they go straight to heaven.

 

[severus68]

There are **enough **kids suffering out there… why not just adopt instead of continuing to procreate and add to the broken-ness of an already broken world (or at least do something to improve their condition instead of adding another potential casualty) ?

I agree about adoption and I understand how you feel. For me, it is about seeing your child suffer and not being able to do anything about it.

Some are able to survive this. I have a cousin who had twins. One died when a few months old, the other when a year old. They went on to have another child. What they went through and still had faith. I don’t know if I could ever be that strong.

 

[severus68]

Templar, you see nothingness but I see God. You see brokenness but I see Jesus. You see despair, but I see hope.

You think my sight is impaired? I say we both see different sides of the same world, and I choose to see the world through the eyes of Christian faith, hope and love.

Adopting children is a good and worthy choice, especially if you can’t have biological children. But giving birth to your own child is a blessing from God… an opportunity to join in his enormous creative power. But of course if one hates life, then one has no reason to want to participate in bringing forth life. It all stems from the filters with which you are viewing life.

Praying for you!

A child should not be adopted as if doing a charitable work. The child should be loved as any biological An adopted child should also be seen as a blessing from God.