Not wanting kids.... Is this a sin?

[Robertanthony]

The point is to prevent bringing the kids into a potentially miserable existence and to prevent them from experiencing any suffering the world has to offer. Just look around you; sickness, diseases, poverty, starvation, economic crises, wars and rumours of wars, asteroids. The world is a tough place to live… the word “life” is not coloured with rainbows with daisies growing on top of each letter. There are no such things as happily ever afters, especially not in this world. If true happiness can’t even be achieved in this world, why bother?

Though God loves us, it doesn’t change the fact that the world is a cold, hostile and harsh place. So why bother? Why bother bringing sentient beings that will only suffer and have to exist in such a place? Though there are a lot of good things in life… the suffering always outweighs the good that the world can offer. Always.

I share Benatar and Schopenhauer’s outlook on life. Though I vehemently condemn abortion and contraception, I believe that a person should NOT have sex not only for the sake of chastity, but also for the sake of not bearing any children, since reproduction and sex cannot be separated. So there we go… another reason to practice strict chastity; to not have kids!

The world can appear totally differently to two people based on their personality, IQ, psychological health, parents, experiences, brain chemicals, yet it’s the same world they’re both looking at. I myself see the world as a frightening place, where all kinds of stuff threaten me psychologically or physically, unconsciously I dread that on any given day a set of bad events could ruin my whole life. To another, this world is full of opportunities, places to see, people to meet, their bias is that they’re gonna be loved and accepted. To be 100% frank, if I’m being totally truthful and transparent, I see God more as a heartless tyrant than a caring, loving father. Despite all of this, I did decide to have a kid, to find out he is almost the exact replica of me psychologically, ADHD, shyness, shaky self-esteem and all. I didn’t do him any favour by bringing him into the world. Sadly, the lyrics of this Tears for Fear 80’s song are true: “Welcome to your life, there’s no turning back”. You never know what kind of kid you’ll have, if they’re gay, they’ll have to choose between God’s wrath and never being in a romantic relationship during their 80 or so years of life here. If there was a form to be released from existence and go back to oblivion, I’d sign it in a heartbeat.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

Heaven is not always a guarantee. Eternal happiness is not always a guarantee for everyone. Only if you are lucky… then maybe you can enter through the pearly gates. Have you ever read the fatima apparitions? There are many souls in hell. This only reinforces the fact that many “enter through the wide gate of destruction”.

We have children so there will be more people in union with God for all eternity, not so we can be totally happy and fulfilled in this life. Suffering is as much as part of life as is joy–we joy in the Lord, that is our happiness here and in eternity. If you have no joy in God now, what makes you think he’s going to make you happy in eternity? We are molding our lives either in the image of Christ or in the image of the world. Be careful which you choose, but don’t use words cherry picked from a prayer to justify condeming God’s creation. Remember the pray also says, “our life, our sweetness, and our hope.” We must cultivate the virtue of hope, not give into despair, for he who dies in despair of life dies without God in his life.

 

[PatriceA]

The OP isn’t really being fair to anybody responding to his comments. He’s gone back and removed most of his posts at least twice now.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

I reserve that right. Also because that video might offend some people here who may not necessarily agree with me or find my views too extremist. But that’s what it is. You must see life for life. I’m not saying there is no happiness that can be found here… there certainly is. All I am saying is that you must never be blind to the negative aspects of it.

The OP isn’t really being fair to anybody responding to his comments. He’s gone back and removed most of his posts at least twice now.

 

[Della]

Heaven is not always a guarantee. Eternal happiness is not always a guarantee for everyone. Only if you are lucky… then maybe you can enter through the pearly gates. Have you ever read the fatima apparitions? There are many souls in hell. This only reinforces the fact that many “enter through the wide gate of destruction”. How are you so sure that ALL / MOST people will be saved?

Going to heaven has nothing to do with luck. You are poorly catechesized if you truly believe that. Each of us has suffering in this life, but we can choose happiness, we don’t have to live in despair.

If you think anyone here is living in a bed of roses you’d be wrong, but we choose to trust in God and let him be our joy no matter if we are having good times or bad. If you don’t want to believe that it’s possible, that’s up to you, poor thing, but with spring in the air and a good husband coming home to me and God in his heaven, all the other problems in my life are nothing in comparison. Have a good life, in spite of your pessimism, my friend. I’m signing out.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

I’m not telling everyone to agree with me. I respect everybody’s view of life. Pessimist, fantasy, reality, optimist… whatever. But this is how I see the world, you don’t have to. It doesn’t change anything about my Catholic faith or beliefs, though my attitude could be different than yours. You can’t take my Catholicism away from me anymore than you can stop the sun from shining.

I asked a simple question. Is it or is it not a sin to have kids? Another poster asked why, I gave him/her raw facts.

I’m poorly catechized? I beg to differ. I am seeing things realistically. I grew up and was immersed in more than 20 years of hardcore Catholicism and studying the faith. Also, I know that we enter heaven through grace, not by works.

Also by not having children, since God hates sin so much. you can spare God from dealing with another potential sinner. Since there are already enough sinners in the world and he is already “much offended” by our sins. (see Fatima apparitions)

And if you are happy the way you are… That’s good for you! Do what makes you happy!

Have a good day!

Going to heaven has nothing to do with luck. You are poorly catechesized if you truly believe that. Each of us has suffering in this life, but we can choose happiness, we don’t have to live in despair.

If you think anyone here is living in a bed of roses you’d be wrong, but we choose to trust in God and let him be our joy no matter if we are having good times or bad. If you don’t want to believe that it’s possible, that’s up to you, poor thing, but with spring in the air and a good husband coming home to me and God in his heaven, all the other problems in my life are nothing in comparison. Have a good life, in spite of your pessimism, my friend. I’m signing out.

 

[PatriceA]

I’m not telling everyone to agree with me. I respect everybody’s view of life. Pessimist, fantasy, reality, optimist… whatever. But this is how I see the world, you don’t have to. It doesn’t change anything about my Catholic faith or beliefs, though my attitude could be different than yours.

I asked a simple question. Is it or is it not a sin to have kids? Another poster asked why, I gave him/her raw facts.

I’m poorly catechized? I beg to differ. I am seeing things realistically.

Also by not having children, since God hates sin so much. you can spare God from dealing with another potential sinner.

If one intends to live as a single and chaste, then no its not a sin.

If one intends to not live a chaste life as a single (pre-marital sex and ABC) or gets married and does not intend to ever have children, then yes it would be a sin (invalid marriage, broken the vow of being open to life during the Catholic wedding ceremony).

 

[TemplarKnight1]

That is all. Thank you. God love and bless you.

If one intends to live as a single and chaste, then no its not a sin.

If one intends to not live a chaste life as a single (pre-marital sex and ABC) or gets married and does not intend to ever have children, then yes it would be a sin (invalid marriage, broken the vow of being open to life during the Catholic wedding ceremony).

 

[1ke]

Not necessarily true, otherwise, this would preclude the elderly and sterile from entering into marriage, which we know is not true.

The OP has given no indication of sterility.

A sterile couple can marry because they do not have a permanent intention against children. Their marriage is still objectively ordered to procreation even if procreation does not occur through no fault of their own. They do not actively exclude children as a good of marriage by a positive act of their will.

The OP is talking about fertile people who actively exclude procreation by a positive act of the will. This is an impediment to valid marriage.

 

[porthos11]

The OP has given no indication of sterility.

A sterile couple can marry because they do not have a permanent intention against children. Their marriage is still objectively ordered to procreation even if procreation does not occur through no fault of their own. They do not actively exclude children as a good of marriage by a positive act of their will.

The OP is talking about fertile people who actively exclude procreation by a positive act of the will. This is an impediment to valid marriage.

This is correct.

However, one may still not have the feeling of desiring children, yet by an act of his will still consents to fecundity and accept them if they come, that is, he will remain open to life, not contracept or use NFP for selfish reasons. This still allows him to enter into marriage validly.

 

[Robertanthony]

This is correct.

However, one may still not have the feeling of desiring children, yet by an act of his will still consents to fecundity and accept them if they come, that is, he will remain open to life, not contracept or use NFP for selfish reasons. This still allows him to enter into marriage validly.

OP has nothing against children, his reasons for not wanting children are essentially to spare another soul suffering and to avoid putting a soul through the possibility of going to Hell (being born allows that possibility) If he has no overpowering desire to desire, let OP love and do what he wills.

No offense meant, but what you are suggesting is a recipe for disaster in many cases…

 

[dshix]

OP has nothing against children, his reasons for not wanting children are essentially to spare another soul suffering and to avoid putting a soul through the possibility of going to Hell (being born allows that possibility) If he has no overpowering desire to desire, let OP love and do what he wills.

No offense meant, but what you are suggesting is a recipe for disaster in many cases…

Whatever your personal opinion may be, the Church teaches that a marriage in which one or the other of the persons involved intends to not have children is invalid.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

The point is to prevent bringing the kids into a potentially miserable existence

Everyone is brought into a potentially miserable existence, but some people choose happiness anyway. Happiness does not consist in the absence of suffering.

 

[Ducklyn]

Not wanting Children is not a sin.

 

[Robertanthony]

Whatever your personal opinion may be, the Church teaches that a marriage in which one or the other of the persons involved intends to not have children is invalid.

I was talking in terms of him not getting married. I initially meant to say “If he has no overpowering desire to marry”, which ended up being “If he has no overpowering desire to desire” (sic). You can’t enter into Catholic matrimony if you absolutely rule out having children, I think OP was already aware of that.

 

[dshix]

I was talking in terms of him not getting married. I initially meant to say “If he has no overpowering desire to marry”, which ended up being “If he has no overpowering desire to desire” (sic). You can’t enter into Catholic matrimony if you absolutely rule out having children, I think OP was already aware of that.

Ah! Funny how one different word changed my whole conception of what you were saying.

 

[Mosley]

The point is to prevent bringing the kids into a potentially miserable existence and to prevent them from experiencing any suffering the world has to offer. Just look around you; sickness, diseases, poverty, starvation, economic crises, wars and rumours of wars, asteroids. The world is a tough place to live… the word “life” is not coloured with rainbows with daisies growing on top of each letter. There are no such things as happily ever afters, especially not in this world. If true happiness can’t even be achieved in this world, why bother?

You may have a point. However in terms of the degree of suffering a person might be subject to during their lives we are better placed than at any other time in our history as a species. If God created human reproduction to be used thousands of years ago when we would die at the age of 30 after a life of intense attrition why not use it today in a world of medical science and the 40 hour working week?

 

[vames]

Only if you are lucky… then maybe you can enter through the pearly gates. Have you ever read the fatima apparitions? There are many souls in hell. This only reinforces the fact that many “enter through the wide gate of destruction”.​

Also by not having children, since God hates sin so much. you can spare God from dealing with another potential sinner. Since there are already enough sinners in the world and he is already “much offended” by our sins. (see Fatima apparitions)

You rely too much on apparitions. No private apparition can be regarded as proof that hell “looks” like that. There are countless old books that tell stories about supposed visions of hell or purgatory, meant to terrify people and written by or about people who were themselves terrified by the ancient representations of hell and purgatory. And people were taught that you can be thrown into hell or purgatory for things like going to theatres or possessing heretical books. So no wonder why they thought hell was WAY much more populated than heaven and no wonder that in fact people didn’t love God - they were just scared of God. If you want to read something truly enlightening on the topic of salvation, please read the encyclical “Spe Salvi”.

About “there are already enough sinners in the world and he is already “much offended” by our sins”: God already knows from the beginning of the world what we, our children and our grand-grand-nephews will do. It’s not like He can be caught by surprise and overwhelmed by our sins. And Jesus died for ALL sinners - past, present and future ones. We don’t do God a favor by “sparing” him from a supposedly unexpected headache of dealing with new sinners.

That being said, not wanting children right now doesn’t imply that you have to feel guilty or that you have a vocation to be chaste for the rest of your life. Very young people who say they don’t want children often change their minds with age. Simple biology laws, love for a future spouse who wants children, various other experiences can modify our thinking.

 

[sojo]

Oh dear Templar - I am so sorry that your outlook on life is so grim. If we were closer, I’d invite you to spend one day with me at a Special Olympics tournament. There are hundreds of people who are made fun of, bullied, and who struggle for years to try and accomplish simple skills that little children learn in a few days without thinking.

They have every reason in the world to be miserable and see the world exactly as you do. And yet… a more joyful, happy group of people you will never encounter on this planet. And volunteers who devote countless hours over years and years because… they want to bask in the indescribable joy these blessed people bring to the world.

I thought my own life was over when I found out my unborn child would have Down syndrome. What a silly goose I was. This child took someone who had a pessimism much like yours and turned me into one overflowing with joy. We are poor yes. We have many worries and fears. But God made this world and it IS GOOD! Remember St. John of the Cross? Naked, cold, thrown in a ditch, lying in his own excrement and turned on by his own Church. And how did he spend his “miserable” existence? He wrote love poetry to God in his head. Some of the most exquisite love poetry man has ever written.

I questioned some of the adult athletes on our local SO team. One by one they all admitted to being bullied, beat up, tortured and made fun of through school. And one by one they said, “its OK, I’m still here and they just don’t understand, I forgave them and let it go.” Pretty darn close to “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.”

I will pray for you my brother. Perhaps life is not so miserable as the eyes you are seeing it through.

 

[Robertanthony]

Oh dear Templar - I am so sorry that your outlook on life is so grim. If we were closer, I’d invite you to spend one day with me at a Special Olympics tournament. There are hundreds of people who are made fun of, bullied, and who struggle for years to try and accomplish simple skills that little children learn in a few days without thinking.

They have every reason in the world to be miserable and see the world exactly as you do. And yet… a more joyful, happy group of people you will never encounter on this planet. And volunteers who devote countless hours over years and years because… they want to bask in the indescribable joy these blessed people bring to the world.

I thought my own life was over when I found out my unborn child would have Down syndrome. What a silly goose I was. This child took someone who had a pessimism much like yours and turned me into one overflowing with joy. We are poor yes. We have many worries and fears. But God made this world and it IS GOOD! Remember St. John of the Cross? Naked, cold, thrown in a ditch, lying in his own excrement and turned on by his own Church. And how did he spend his “miserable” existence? He wrote love poetry to God in his head. Some of the most exquisite love poetry man has ever written.

I questioned some of the adult athletes on our local SO team. One by one they all admitted to being bullied, beat up, tortured and made fun of through school. And one by one they said, “its OK, I’m still here and they just don’t understand, I forgave them and let it go.” Pretty darn close to “forgive them Father for they know not what they do.”

I will pray for you my brother. Perhaps life is not so miserable as the eyes you are seeing it through.

Oh sojo, where were you when I was growing up? You’re a walking ray of hope and goodness.