Not What I Expected

[Serap]

The problem began with the wedding night. It was not the kind of experience I envisioned. He seemed so disinterested with sex from the minute we got married. When we dated, I had to fend him off all the time, not from sex but from everything but. The entire time we’ve been married (almost 2 years), he’s barely initiated and has rejected me more than he has accepted. It’s gotten to the point where I barely care anymore but we can go a very long time without doing it and he doesn’t seem to be bothered. It still hurts. I don’t feel sexy AT ALL. I keep having dreams where I’m pursued by other men and I feel that rush again.

This is an issue for sure! If my husband rejected me all the time, I would also feel that I’m not sexy. I don’t see this as abuse however; there could be a physical reason for it on his part. He may just be wired that way.

Second issue: we stopped attending Mass. We agree to go every week but never do. He is less motivated than I am. It seems that if I want to go, I will have to go it alone. Fine but I’m worried about our salvation.

My husband is not into going to mass either. I just go alone with my daughter and I’ve made some great friends in the process. My husband attends the social functions with me though (dances, children’s events, etc.). I’m ok with that. I just pray that he comes back when he’s ready.

Third issue: he is a person that acts like it’s his way or the highway. He has a temper, name-calls in arguments and is disrespectful in general. In the heat of the moment, he threatens divorce but never really means it. It’s still devastating to hear. I wonder what would happen if he woke up the next morning and I was gone. I don’t know if I should do this one day to give him a wake-up call or if it’s too cruel in the eyes of the Church.

My husband can be like this too. I hate it also. Some here are saying it will escalate to violence and intense suffering; I can attest that my husband has not ever become violent with me and it hasn’t escalated in the least. My husband had a rough childhood and has a bad temper and the way I see it as “we” need to work on it together. Also, I sometimes play a role in making him very angry (by saying cruel things to him) even though I know he has a temper…it’s like adding fuel to the fire. I take responsibility to the role I play in our maritial fights. Do you sometimes add fuel to the fire knowing what he’s like? Do you sometimes say cruel things back to him or display temper as a reaction?

Fourth issue: we have a child together and I feel that he barely helps out with what needs to be done. If the urge hits him, he will do some chores but usually, if I don’t ask, I do most of it alone. If he’s home or not, it’s the same thing to me. That’s the worst part. If I didn’t have my child, I would be so much more alone.

I’m not with you on this one. My husband helps me with our daughter all the time. He’s a great hands-on father. Children need both parents to be hands-on. I am sorry to hear that he doesn’t help you.

I know I’ve made him sound horrible. He has so many faults but he’s usually very kind and cuddly with me. The cons, however, are starting to outweigh the pros and that’s why I’m here. When I said I would spend the rest of my life with him, I meant it. I just don’t want us to be miserable. I’m starting to be. Any advice, comments, prayers? Please, help.

The cons are outweighing the pros b/c all around, he’s acting like a dud. If he were at least interested in sex and helping raise HIS child, then you guys could work on the temper part together b/c you would still have a team in place between the two of you. He’s failing you all around - you do not need to accept this behaviour.

Have you confronted him on your feelings when the “time is right”. Has he given you reasons for his behaviour? If you asked him for family days together, would he be ok with it? Do you guys go to the zoo, parks, etc. with your child? Do you eat dinner together as a family when possible? Can you have open communication with him? Does he play with your child while you watch?

I’m attempting to get a better understanding of the situation, so I don’t make hasty judgements on your marriage b/c that can be dangerous on CAF when we don’t know you or your husband.

 

[curl]

There is something else that has not been mentioned, I’m almost afraid to bring it up, but seeing as I suffer from it myself it can only serve to benefit me as well…is your husband a viewer of porn? Could he have an addiction to it? A sex addiction?

In case anyone needs to follow up with this theme, there is a good thread here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=341948

• curl

 

[vowsareforever]

Hello!

Okay, I finally have a second to continue the discussion. To begin, my husband does not watch porn at all but he was very promiscuous in his teens, before he came back to the Church. This is part of why it stunned me when his desire seemed to be shot when we got married. He assures me that he is still attracted to me but sometimes, I just don’t feel it. The whole family/eating together thing… well, our child is still an infant and my husband eats at work so we don’t eat together anymore. But I’m hopeful that once things get back to normal, as much as they can, we will sit together as a family. Our age-- we are in our early twenties. I do sometimes fuel the fire, mostly because I’m so frustrated and want to voice my opinion. He’s actually called me on it, asking why do I try and make it worse. I’m not as extreme as he is, though, when angry… not at all. When his parents argue, there is a lot of screaming and swearing at each other; of course, this is where he learned the behaviour. About how he feels about his mother… he hates her and it’s becoming a huge issue within the family now. His attitude is awful and we’re all trying to find solutions. I just hate people pitying me for marrying him.

I was thinking of sending him an e-mail outlining everything that has been happening that has made me so sad and essentially hinting at a bit of an ultimatum, that if things don’t start changing, our future together could be compromised. No, I don’t want my child to become an angry person and treat a spouse like this. There needs to be a good, loving, healthy example. Most of all, I’m aching for a CATHOLIC marriage. I miss feeling holy and good. I envy other happy Catholic couples. Marriage is forever but if God wants me to be a single mother, fine. I hate to say it and it’s devastating to think of. I still have hope. I still want to be a happily married woman and be the best for my child.

 

[Cat]

Hello!

Okay, I finally have a second to continue the discussion. To begin, my husband does not watch porn at all but he was very promiscuous in his teens, before he came back to the Church. This is part of why it stunned me when his desire seemed to be shot when we got married. He assures me that he is still attracted to me but sometimes, I just don’t feel it. The whole family/eating together thing… well, our child is still an infant and my husband eats at work so we don’t eat together anymore. But I’m hopeful that once things get back to normal, as much as they can, we will sit together as a family. Our age-- we are in our early twenties. I do sometimes fuel the fire, mostly because I’m so frustrated and want to voice my opinion. He’s actually called me on it, asking why do I try and make it worse. I’m not as extreme as he is, though, when angry… not at all. When his parents argue, there is a lot of screaming and swearing at each other; of course, this is where he learned the behaviour. About how he feels about his mother… he hates her and it’s becoming a huge issue within the family now. His attitude is awful and we’re all trying to find solutions. I just hate people pitying me for marrying him.

I was thinking of sending him an e-mail outlining everything that has been happening that has made me so sad and essentially hinting at a bit of an ultimatum, that if things don’t start changing, our future together could be compromised. No, I don’t want my child to become an angry person and treat a spouse like this. There needs to be a good, loving, healthy example. Most of all, I’m aching for a CATHOLIC marriage. I miss feeling holy and good. I envy other happy Catholic couples. Marriage is forever but if God wants me to be a single mother, fine. I hate to say it and it’s devastating to think of. I still have hope. I still want to be a happily married woman and be the best for my child.

I wouldn’t send an email or any other “paper” trail. It may come back to haunt you later on if there is any kind of legal situation. A lawyer can use what you have written and twist it to make you sound like a bad person.

I also would be careful about keeping diaries or journals, or leaving any kind of telephone messages, for the same reason.

I sincerely hope it doesn’t come to that.

Is there any chance that you could ask one of those good, loving, healthy, Catholic, OLDER couples to mentor you and your husband and train you how to have strong, Catholic marriage and family? Would your husband go along with this?

My husband and I were fortunate that several older couples were willing to take us under their wing and demonstrate to us in word and deed what it meant to have a Christian marriage. We’ve been married 30 years now. The Bible talks about older men training younger men, and older women training younger women. If you can make arrangements with an older couple to meet with you both once a week for dinner (casual, at your houses, not at a $$ restaurant) and talking/sharing, that would be really helpful to you both and turn your marriage in the right direction.

I think that many young couples in the U.S. simply have no role models for a strong Catholic marriage, so they don’t know the “how-to’s” of living a daily life with a spouse. Television certainly isn’t very helpful! Since it’s so easy to split up, I think a lot of couples just give up when they can’t figure things out, and eventually split because they don’t know what else to do, and they can’t afford the time and money for marriage counselling (which doesn’t always have answers for the couple, either).

An older, experienced married couple can really throw you some life lines. They will probably be able to spot “errors” that both of you are making, perhaps in your daily conversation, or in your behavior toward each other, and they can put you back on the right path again by giving you sensible, practical ideas that worked for them.

I think that several posters in this thread have given you wise advice about your marriage and the possibility that you are living with an abusive husband. I myself can’t comment on this, as I have no experience. But I think that it would be smart of you to read their comments carefully and heed what they are saying.

However, I think you need to find a “real” couple who lives in your town to share all your problems with. Allow that “real” couple to observe your situation first- hand and then draw conclusions. No matter how experienced all of us are in various aspects of relationships and marriage, none of us actually know you and your situation, and it is possible that we are totally misinterpreting your situation. It would be best to find a real couple nearer to your situation, who can advise you and give you prayer and other support. Even if your husband refuses to try this, you can still do it to help yourself.

I hope that this is helpful.

 

[vowsareforever]

Cat,

I would love to have a Catholic couple as a good example for us but the only one we know, my husband can’t stand because of their holier-than-thou attitude and the fact that they don’t like his best friend, who is gay (and Catholic). They are pretty exclusive and if I were to go behind his back to them for advice, it would more than likely get back to him and he would feel betrayed. It’s sad but EVERYONE who I went to school with turned their backs on Catholicism. They are either non-denominational Christian or do not believe at all. We were the only practicing couple we knew, really. It seems that that’s changing, though. What else could we do?

 

[Cat]

Cat,

I would love to have a Catholic couple as a good example for us but the only one we know, my husband can’t stand because of their holier-than-thou attitude and the fact that they don’t like his best friend, who is gay (and Catholic). They are pretty exclusive and if I were to go behind his back to them for advice, it would more than likely get back to him and he would feel betrayed. It’s sad but EVERYONE who I went to school with turned their backs on Catholicism. They are either non-denominational Christian or do not believe at all. We were the only practicing couple we knew, really. It seems that that’s changing, though. What else could we do?

Call your diocese and ask.

You don’t have to KNOW the couple, and they don’t have to KNOW you. In fact, it might be better if you didn’t know each other well so that no one pre-judges. Just make sure that the couple is highly-recommended so that you don’t get into a “weird” or dangerous situation.

And don’t reject the non-denominational couples entirely, or even atheist couples. I’m talking OLDER couples, in their 50s or 60s, not couples your own age that you grew up with–they’re all in the same boat you are! They don’t know much yet.

And I’m talking couples who have been together for 25 or more years, couples who have worked through some hard times, and KNOW how to make a marriage work. There are a lot of non-Catholic Christian couples who have been married for a long time. My husband and I were evangelical Protestant until five years ago, and the couples who helped us at the beginning of our marriage were all evangelical Protestant. Couples can be wise about marriage even if they don’t believe in God.

You don’t have to understand “sacramental” marriage to be able to have a good marriage. My husband and I had no clue about what Catholics taught about marriage, and neither do all of our evangelical friends. We certainly love each other even more now that we are Catholic and understand the Sacrament of Marriage.

But there are many Catholic couples who DO understand sacramental marriage, and STILL have rotten marriages or who split up because they can’t survive the “daily-ness” of marriage. On a practical level, marriage is not esoteric or spiritual. On a practical level, marriage is cooking meals, cleaning up, paying bills, making beds and sleeping and making love in them, watching TV, raking the lawn, rearing the children, driving, holidays with relatives, etc. etc. etc. etc. Marriage is communicating and compromising and learning to enjoy and appreciate and respect and have fun with all the cooking meals, cleaning up, etc. etc. etc. etc. So many couples just don’t get all that, and they don’t understand how to work through conflicts and learn to love each other even more when it comes to cooking meals, etc. etc. etc. etc.

And marriage is, sadly, about helping each other conquer sins. We hide them while we are dating or courting. But after marriage, they come out–abusive tendencies, addictions, sexual problems, selfishness, etc.

And marriage is about helping people who have leftover defects from heredity or environment–bad habits, whining, lack of self esteem and confidence, bad education, no skills, poor social skills, etc.

We are very flawed people, and so is everyone else, and yet, we marry each other and for some reason, we get upset when we aren’t perfect.

Married couples need to learn to help each other conquer sins and helping each other overcome defects. We need to learn to love each other through all this and help each other overcome our sins and defects.

And once again, please pay attention to the ladies in this thread who are hinting that you are living with an abuser. I can’t help you here, since I don’t have experience. But they have. I think that some of the stuff that I am talking about here will work differently when a woman is living with an abusive spouse. For all I know, some of what I am telling you will not help at all if your husband is an abuser. I am definitely NOT telling you to subjugate your own personality and allow an abuser to destroy you. Please listen to their advice and get another woman or couple in your real life to help you determine whether you are in an abusive situation with an abusive spouse, and then follow her/their advice about how to proceed. In an abusive situation, there is the issue of danger–you must protect yourself and your children. Listen to people who have lived through this and know how to best deal with it. I’m not that person.

Quite a few older couples have learned that the Catholic Church is not the whore of Babylon, and they will respect your beliefs. If they don’t, then you will thank them for their offer to help, but tell them that since they can’t respect Catholicism, you can’t work with them.

Yes, I realize that the ideal situation would be to have a Catholic couple work with you, and that’s why I suggested calling the diocese. I can think of half-a-dozen couples in my own parish that the diocese would probably suggest. Print out my email post and email it to the diocese so that they’ll have a better idea of what you are talking about. Our diocese has a Marriage and Family Life division, and there is a wonderful couple in charge of that–very Catholic, many children, married for decades, and lots of fun. Great role models.

 

[Serap]

And marriage is, sadly, about helping each other conquer sins. We hide them while we are dating or courting. But after marriage, they come out–abusive tendencies, addictions, sexual problems, selfishness, etc.

And marriage is about helping people who have leftover defects from heredity or environment–bad habits, whining, lack of self esteem and confidence, bad education, no skills, poor social skills, etc.

We are very flawed people, and so is everyone else, and yet, we marry each other and for some reason, we get upset when we aren’t perfect.

Married couples need to learn to help each other conquer sins and helping each other overcome defects. We need to learn to love each other through all this and help each other overcome our sins and defects.

Great advice on marriage! I need this reminder once in a while. My husband and I have many “defects” and things we need to work on. We’ve been fighting more often lately b/c I’ve been feeling so moody with my pregnancy and I know I’ll feel just as moody the first 3 months after the baby is born.

 

[vowsareforever]

Yes, that is great advice, thank you. I want to help him overcome his sins, just as I’m sure he would feel the same way about me. He can be encouraging but I haven’t seen that as of late. So, the e-mail idea was refuted and made me think, “Wow, there could be a paper trail; that’s scary.” Now that that’s not a good idea, what could I do? Talk to him directly?

 

[crazzeto]

I give this advice as a 29 year old bachelor, so take it with a grain of salt.

First Issue-If he’s not interested in sex, it could be a medical problem. Has he gotten anything testest? Testostorone levels? Is he taking medicine for depression? IF AFTER you go to the doctors, do all the checks, and realize that he has nothing wrong, then, he might be homosexual or having an affair. I am NOT accusing him of either (and you shouldn’t either) but a young man not wanting sex is a serious problem.

This might be, it might also be other issues. It’s going to be tough getting to the bottom of this one, it might be easier to work on the other issues first, see if that works this out.

2nd Issue-Go by yourself, pray, and let him worry about his salvation. You can’t force him to go, nor should you

Here I disgree… Not with going to mass by your self, yes do that if you must. Not with getting into arguments trying to force him, I agree there. I disagree with the suggestion that she should be disinterested in his salvation. She should be very concerned with this salvation! She should pray for him at Mass every weekend. And she should always keep an open invitation to come.

Third issue-Demend that he not mention the “d” word again, even in an argument. That word hurts more than anything. Get rules about “fighting fair” they’re availible over the net, and from a counselor. If, after reading these rules, he continues to behave in that way, tell him you will not stand for it, because it is a form of abuse.

Totally agreed that it is highly improper to ever use threats of any kind in an argument as leverage.

THe Fourth issue-Lay out a list of chores that he has to do. Unplug the TV, take away the PS3 or Xbox, and treat him like a baby until he decides to act like an adult.

and Finally, consider getting a marital therapist

I’d skip, entirly the fourth suggestion, it will make the situation worse. I would however take that last suggestion. I would also do an internal examination, figure out if maybe some of your expectations were not reasnoble. See if maybe you might have behaved improperly due to a unmet, unrealistic expectation. Not making accusastions, but it’s easier to change your self than anyone else. It’s worth a first look.

 

[dulcissima]

Yes, that is great advice, thank you. I want to help him overcome his sins, just as I’m sure he would feel the same way about me. He can be encouraging but I haven’t seen that as of late. So, the e-mail idea was refuted and made me think, “Wow, there could be a paper trail; that’s scary.” Now that that’s not a good idea, what could I do? Talk to him directly?

I don’t see how there being a paper trail of you trying to encourage him to seek counseling, participate in the care of the children, etc would be a bad thing. In fact, I think it would be a useful tool to demonstrate that you had legitimate concerns that you were addressing.

 

[kage_ar]

Make an appointment to talk to your priest. He can find you a mentor couple.

 

[JustinR]

Cat,

I would love to have a Catholic couple as a good example for us but the only one we know, my husband can’t stand because of their holier-than-thou attitude and the fact that they don’t like his best friend, who is gay (and Catholic).

Just my opinion and thoughts for what they are worth-----

with your original post saying the change happened at the wedding, it may be a case of ‘buyer’s remorse’ so to speak, feeling trapped, or as your own title says ‘not what I expected’ on his part too. For a guy in his early 20s the reality of actually being married may have him feeling like he made a mistake, not anything to do with you, but he may feel his choices in life have suddenly been limited now just by the fact of being married, marriage does limit some dreams (or changes dreams for the better if one is wise), then add to that a baby. I have seen the change happen more frequently with the first baby, when the wife becomes a mother, the guy feeling like he lost his wife especially if she is 95% mother and 5% wife. Which is just due to the time a newborn takes, but us guys who can be stupid let the resentment build and put up walls in response to being rejected, rather than understand everything in its good time, and the present time is to enjoy the newborn.

now your recent post of his best friend being gay does raise questions, If he had one gay friend or several gay friends it is one thing, but if his best friend is gay and your husband does not have any close ‘best friends’ who are not, then this could say something, Also if his gay best friend was in a commited relationship vs. him playing the field, it could affect how your husband sees the world. Even if your husband’s friends were hetrosexual, if they are All single and “free” to do what they want, when they want, it shows your husband how his life used to be and he may still want that, and resent you for “tying him down” ; it is better if any husband has married friends so he can have better perspective. Does your husband have several married friends he can relate to ?

As far as getting him to step up on bonding with his child and getting him to do chores, make him, by planning on suddenly leaving to go to the store or such and tell him as you go out the door so he does not have a chance to object to watching his own child, and then take your time getting back home. As a teacher and as a nurse I have seen dads disconnect because they feel lost and incompetent, so they just let the mom do everything concerning the child by default, the dad never bonds to their kids so later they can walk away from them easily, whereas the mom usually will never walk away no matter what ( except in my son’s case where she never bonded and walked away so I am raising him alone) . As a nurse and a man I always made sure the dad was there when I taught cord care of the baby and everything else, so he did not just default the to mom doing everything. When my son was 1 yo and a mom in our playgroup said she had never left her 15 month old alone with her husband, not even for 5 minutes, she said she trusted him but she couldn’t “let go” and be away, I told her for her kid’s sake she needs let her husband grow into the role of being totally responsible and time alone with his kid may awaken his domestic side. Its hard to be a hands on father, when the mother who is better at it, is always watching over his shoulder and ready to step in when he bumbles; makes a guy not want to even try. If he feels he does not do the household chores as well as you, then he may not even try. A guy is like a puppy, praise him for any little effort that is in the direction you desire, don’t wait til he does the whole job as well as you do it (half humor and half truth).

As far as saving the marriage, and renewing the spark, if you have not heard of the Retrouvaille program, check into it and see if you can talk him into going for a weekend, even couples who divorced each other and were barely speaking to each other have gone through the program and renewed their marriage. I have heard of marriage miracles from people who attended.