Nothing new under the sun?

  • Thread starter Thread starter cassini
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cassini

Guest
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say:
Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us


Fascinating passage you will all agree, but what does it really mean?
 
It means that the world doesn’t change. Even with this technology, the world is worst than before: more murderers, rapists, blasphemers, prostitutes, etc. Nothing is changed. People are the same (if not worse) now than 2,000 years ago. So that is what I believe the passage means.
 
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say:
Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us


Fascinating passage you will all agree, but what does it really mean?
Ecclesiastes is amazing. It is important to note, that these are the words of God, not that of Solomon.

[2 Peter 1:20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in the old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

People confuse this verse to mean that an individual cannot take the text of the bible and interpret it, if that interpretation is contrary to church doctine. This does not say that. This is teaching that everysingle page of the bible, was from the mouth of God, and that holy man who wrote the words, was moved by the Holy Spirit to write. Thus, every single page in the bible is verified as from the mouth of God, the prophecies and parables and doctrine all come from the mouth of God.

With that said God spoke, and Solomon, being moved by the holy Spirit, wrore.

Ecclesiastes was writting during the twilight of Solomons life. This is wisdom based off the life of Solomon. Solomon was asked by God, ask me anything, and I will grant it. Solomon asked for Wisdom, as it takes wisdom to ask for wisdom, So Solomon was a righteous God fearing man. During the course of Solomons life, he was the richest, most powerful, smartest, mose legendary man who ever walked the face of this earth, past present and future. This is teaching that no man, nobody, not the Brad Pitts, the Tom Bradies, the Johnny Depps, The Steven Hawkins, no man is able to achieve during the course of a lifetime, that which Solomon had. Nobody will ever be richer, nobody will ever be wiser and/or smarter, no man will have as many builiding, as many wives, as much good wine and food, as much freedom to do anything ANYTHING that his heart ever ever ever desired.

This is set forth for us as an example. To teach that Solomon, who has the ability to have anything, to achieve anything, the richest, wisest most legendary man ever, was empty withouth God.

As Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes, …‘IT IS ALL VANITY, AND GRASPING AT WIND’

in otherwords, meaningless.

the context is this, Solomon during the later part of his life has began to love his wives more than God. Solomon erected pagen alters because he loved his wives so much. And the result was that Solomon did not walk with God. Solomon in his twilight after have searched the world for “heaven on earth” found that all of his accomplishments, all of his money, power and wisdom was all vanity and grasping at the wind.

Solomon is set forth as an example because no person in the histroy of forever will ever be what Solomon was, will ever have what Solomon had, thus, there is nothing new under the sun, everything has been done, everything has been accomplished, and the end result is vanity and grasping at wind, it is meaningless without God.

Imagine the time of Babylon. At this juncture in time, every single human being was in the city called Babylon, every human being spoke one language, and there technological advances, though they had no interenet, was astounding. They were capable of building a tower to heaven. God looked down and said, there is nothing this people cant accomplish given enough time, look they build a tower to heaven, let us go down and confuse the languages and seperate them. This was thousands of years before Solomon, yet these people had accomplished that which based on todays standards, is impossible and amazing. Nothing new under the sun, it has all been done before.

Solomon during the twilight of his life, reflected on the meaninglessness of searching for heaven on earth by all that he accomplished, that no man even today can ever dare to possibly dream to be his equal. it is impossible. Yet solomon was empty.

So, for you dear readers who pursue your goals so hard, by working harder, by getting a better job, you will never match the works of Solomon. Solomon built temples and bulidings and they were amazing, no man can ever dream to match that accomplishment, though of coure being a human being, most people in this world will try, will work hard there whole lives trying to accomplish some goal, and upon reaching that goal, the feeling of success and joy vanishes as the wind blows. For those people who think money brings happiness, by working hard, by saving, well, you will never have as much money as Solomon, and Solomon was empty, if you think sex can make you better, well solomon had rooms and rooms of wives and concubines, and yet Solomon was not happy, for those who think good food and wine or drugs will make you happy, well solomon had all that and more, that which we can never dream of, and solomon was not happy. for those who think an aspiring goal is there happiness, well as lofty as it may be, it can never reach the goals solomon set forth for himself and accomplished, it is empty

it is vanity and grasping at wind to search for heaven on earth. Your cup will always be empty unless you fill it with spiritual drink.

its all vanity and grasping at wind.
 
Along with Esther(no mention of God in the MT),Song of Songs(eroticism) Qohelth almost didn’t make it into the Hebrew canon because of it’s negativity.So the Rabbi’s weren’t THAT certain that Qoheleth were God’s words.
 
It means that the world doesn’t change. Even with this technology, the world is worst than before: more murderers, rapists, blasphemers, prostitutes, etc. Nothing is changed. People are the same (if not worse) now than 2,000 years ago. So that is what I believe the passage means.
But if the people are worse, isn’t that new?
 
Are people worse? Another from Ecclesiastes:
“Do not ask why old times were better- that is not a question born of intelligence.”

Actually Ecclesiastes IS in the Hebrew Canon. Maybe the person who said it didn’t was thinking of Ecclesiasticus.

Book of Ecclessiastes is an essential part of a proper spiritual education, because it is contrary to the compulsory optimism stuff which has destroyed much of the essence of Christianity.

Compare with the NT:
“Sorrow is better than laughter” (Ec 7:3), “Blessed are those who mourn…Alas for those who laugh”
Christ certainly knew Ecclesiastes well.
 
Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
“…there is no new thing under the sun
Is there any thing whereof it may be said,
See, this is new?
it hath been already of old time,
which was before us.”

-isn’t the following something ‘new’ ?

2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ,
he is a new creature:
old things are passed away;
behold, all things are become new.”
 
It means that the world doesn’t change. Even with this technology, the world is worst than before: more murderers, rapists, blasphemers, prostitutes, etc. Nothing is changed. People are the same (if not worse) now than 2,000 years ago. So that is what I believe the passage means.
But if the people are worse, isn’t that new?
What he said.

But I think Cristian is wrong, there is not more of that stuff, it is just that through technology we know more about that stuff.
 
Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
“…there is no new thing under the sun
Is there any thing whereof it may be said,
See, this is new?
it hath been already of old time,
which was before us.”

-isn’t the following something ‘new’ ?

2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ,
he is a new creature:
old things are passed away;
behold, all things are become new.”
I think by “new creatures” St. Paul means we are entirely different than what we were, but we are nothing new that hasn’t been here before.

At Bapstism, we are nothing more than what Adam and Eve were before the Fall, aren’t we? Of course, we also that have little stain that Adam and Eve left with us.
 
There is nothing new in the light of the sun that illuminated the earth that the author of Ecclesiastus saw… The earth is illuminated by the light of the New Day, the Eighth day in Christ. In Christ the earth is illuminated by Divine light, eternal light whith no alteration, no need for the sun to light the day and the moon to light the night. This New Day is here and now because eternity entered time and human history when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
 
Ecclesiastes 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say:
Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us


Fascinating passage you will all agree, but what does it really mean?
The only thing we have learned from history is that we never learn from history. 😃
 
The only thing we have learned from history is that we never learn from history. 😃
Right. It’ an apologetic against the pagan belief that time and human history ascends through a cyclic spiral of era’s symbolized by a dragon swallowing it’s tail.

The author’s teaching is in the tradition of the true revelation of human history that time is cyclic, but the dragon’s head isn’t swallwing a tail, it’s striking a heel that will crush it and free man from it’s vain empty loop of repetition .
 
Are people worse? Another from Ecclesiastes:
“Do not ask why old times were better- that is not a question born of intelligence.”

Actually Ecclesiastes IS in the Hebrew Canon. Maybe the person who said it didn’t was thinking of Ecclesiasticus.

Book of Ecclessiastes is an essential part of a proper spiritual education, because it is contrary to the compulsory optimism stuff which has destroyed much of the essence of Christianity.

Compare with the NT:
“Sorrow is better than laughter” (Ec 7:3), “Blessed are those who mourn…Alas for those who laugh”
Christ certainly knew Ecclesiastes well.
I know ecclestastes(Qoheleth) is in the Hebrew Canon-I said in my post that it almost didn’t make the cut because of it’s negative outlook-like Esther was almost kept out because God is not mentioned at all in the MT. And Canticle of canticles almost was cut because of it’s very erotic nature.
 
Ecclesiastes is amazing. It is important to note, that these are the words of God, not that of Solomon.

[2 Peter 1:20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in the old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

People confuse this verse to mean that an individual cannot take the text of the bible and interpret it, if that interpretation is contrary to church doctine. This does not say that. This is teaching that everysingle page of the bible, was from the mouth of God, and that holy man who wrote the words, was moved by the Holy Spirit to write. Thus, every single page in the bible is verified as from the mouth of God, the prophecies and parables and doctrine all come from the mouth of God.

With that said God spoke, and Solomon, being moved by the holy Spirit, wrore.

Ecclesiastes was writting during the twilight of Solomons life. This is wisdom based off the life of Solomon. Solomon was asked by God, ask me anything, and I will grant it. Solomon asked for Wisdom, as it takes wisdom to ask for wisdom, So Solomon was a righteous God fearing man. During the course of Solomons life, he was the richest, most powerful, smartest, mose legendary man who ever walked the face of this earth, past present and future. This is teaching that no man, nobody, not the Brad Pitts, the Tom Bradies, the Johnny Depps, The Steven Hawkins, no man is able to achieve during the course of a lifetime, that which Solomon had. Nobody will ever be richer, nobody will ever be wiser and/or smarter, no man will have as many builiding, as many wives, as much good wine and food, as much freedom to do anything ANYTHING that his heart ever ever ever desired.

This is set forth for us as an example. To teach that Solomon, who has the ability to have anything, to achieve anything, the richest, wisest most legendary man ever, was empty withouth God.

As Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes, …‘IT IS ALL VANITY, AND GRASPING AT WIND’

in otherwords, meaningless.

the context is this, Solomon during the later part of his life has began to love his wives more than God. Solomon erected pagen alters because he loved his wives so much. And the result was that Solomon did not walk with God. Solomon in his twilight after have searched the world for “heaven on earth” found that all of his accomplishments, all of his money, power and wisdom was all vanity and grasping at the wind.

Solomon is set forth as an example because no person in the histroy of forever will ever be what Solomon was, will ever have what Solomon had, thus, there is nothing new under the sun, everything has been done, everything has been accomplished, and the end result is vanity and grasping at wind, it is meaningless without God.

Solomon during the twilight of his life, reflected on the meaninglessness of searching for heaven on earth by all that he accomplished, that no man even today can ever dare to possibly dream to be his equal. it is impossible. Yet solomon was empty.

So, for you dear readers who pursue your goals so hard, by working harder, by getting a better job, you will never match the works of Solomon. Solomon built temples and bulidings and they were amazing, no man can ever dream to match that accomplishment, though of coure being a human being, most people in this world will try, will work hard there whole lives trying to accomplish some goal, and upon reaching that goal, the feeling of success and joy vanishes as the wind blows. For those people who think money brings happiness, by working hard, by saving, well, you will never have as much money as Solomon, and Solomon was empty, if you think sex can make you better, well solomon had rooms and rooms of wives and concubines, and yet Solomon was not happy, for those who think good food and wine or drugs will make you happy, well solomon had all that and more, that which we can never dream of, and solomon was not happy. for those who think an aspiring goal is there happiness, well as lofty as it may be, it can never reach the goals solomon set forth for himself and accomplished, it is empty

it is vanity and grasping at wind to search for heaven on earth. Your cup will always be empty unless you fill it with spiritual drink.

its all vanity and grasping at wind.
Thanks a million for this EnterCanaan, it is beautiful and wise. Just for the record, here is what Bellarmine said that confirms your post. Hope you see what I am getting at?
Letter to Foscarini.
I add that the words “the sun also riseth and the sun goeth down, and hasteneth to the place where he ariseth, etc.” were those of Solomon, who not only spoke by divine inspiration but was a man wise above all others and most learned in human sciences and in the knowledge of all created things, and his wisdom was from God. Thus it is not too likely that he would affirm something which was contrary to a truth either already demonstrated, or likely to be demonstrated. And if you tell me that Solomon spoke only according to the appearances, and that it seems to us that the sun goes around when actually it is the earth which moves, as it seems to one on a ship that the beach moves away from the ship, I shall answer that one who departs from the beach, though it looks to him as though the beach moves away, he knows that he is in error and corrects it, seeing clearly that the ship moves and not the beach. But with regard to the sun and the earth, no wise man is needed to correct the error, since he clearly experiences that the earth stands still and that his eye is not deceived when it judges that the moon and stars move. And that is enough for the present.
 
Along with Esther(no mention of God in the MT),Song of Songs(eroticism) Qohelth almost didn’t make it into the Hebrew canon because of it’s negativity.So the Rabbi’s weren’t THAT certain that Qoheleth were God’s words.
What is Qoheleth?
 
I suppose it has to do with human behaviour. Once contaminated with Original Sin, man will continue to do what we do, sin, from the beginning to the end of time…

It can also have other meanings. The wisdom of Solomon being one of these.

It could not possibly refer to technology and its disclosures.

Thanks all and I look forward to other contributions.
 
The nothing new under the sun may have been true in the time of Solomon, but something new did come once, and will never come again. something that had ruled out the cyclic hypothosis… a hypothosis that is still popular to day in those who deny God’s existence. {the pulsating big bang theory}.

When God became Man, a new thing occurred. Someone without sin, someone unique, and his converting a condemned world into a world where salvation is available to all. Christ is the breaking of the pattern of Solomon. But he could not have known that.
 
The nothing new under the sun may have been true in the time of Solomon, but something new did come once, and will never come again. something that had ruled out the cyclic hypothosis… a hypothosis that is still popular to day in those who deny God’s existence. {the pulsating big bang theory}.

When God became Man, a new thing occurred. Someone without sin, someone unique, and his converting a condemned world into a world where salvation is available to all. Christ is the breaking of the pattern of Solomon. But he could not have known that.
You could say that, since Christ is Eternal, than He is not new.
 
I believe he is talking about God becoming man, not the creation of God.
Quite true. This differentiates christianity from other modern religions (Hindu, Jew, Moslem, Buddhist). God made man breaks the concept of a cyclic history. All that has happened before will happen again and all that is happening has happened before.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top