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lovemyboys
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Do you homeschool?
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Speak_Up
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No, she attends a classically-minded charter school. I homeschooled her through 3rd grade, but then we started using charter schools. I love them. Here is a link: greatheartsaz.org/ She started here in 6th grade and it will take her all the way through 12th.
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Joannm
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Since I have a graduate degree in Theology from Notre Dame, as well as two others from a different institution, I can totally agree with Rach. The theology department is top notch and one of the best in the country…CUA proabaly comes in second. You come out, not only knowing Cathoic teaching, but really knowing how to apply that knowledge in the real world.the added benefit of having studied in what Bishop D’Arcy called one of the greatest theology departments in the country.Not sure if that’s at all something that might interest your son, but I wanted to let you know!
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Speak_Up
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Can you explain to me, then, why that same university would defy the bishops by awarding an honorary degree to someone who is unrepentantly pro-abortion, even to the point of voting to allow children born of failed abortions to die? How can the same university, that has such a top-notch theology department, and does such a great job of imparting Catholic teaching, give honor and laud to a man who favors the wholesale slaughter of the most innocent among us? I’m not trying to be argumentative… I really don’t understand.
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nodito
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The only reason I’m responding to this is because you framed your question by saying that you’re not trying to be argumentative. So I’m going to take you at your word. And at the risk of sounding like I’m defending the decisions surrounding the most recent commencement, I can try to explain how it is that I continue to love and recommend Notre Dame even despite the scandal.
I think the decision to invite President Obama to speak was a poor one (and it was even more of a travesty that he was awarded an honorary law degree). There is a standing offer for all presidents to speak at Notre Dame and for whatever reason (Pride? Student pressure? Embarrassment?) Jenkins didn’t renege that offer. But a school is so much more than the sum of its administrators. And to dismiss a university that offers, in my opinion, an outstanding Catholic education because of something like this could be compared to the dismissal of Catholicism because some high profile priests abuse children. How is it that a Church that contains the fullness of truth and can boast of apostolic succession also ordains priests who hurt little kids? The fact is that Notre Dame, like our Church, is made up of sinners and saints. And the vast majority of the school has no influence over the decision of who to invite to May commencement.
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diggerdomer
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I’m an ND grad.
- Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the individual.
- They make a point to maintain the Catholic identity of the University, but I honestly don’t know if that affects admissions policy (I tend to think it’s not that important, but I honestly don’t know for sure).
- Yes.
- No.
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Joannm
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The only negative thing I can say about ND right now is that they need to get their act together on the football field…although they are trying hard this year.
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mizznicole
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You raise good points. I would add that only 53% of the faculty are Catholic, and that to me is a poor indicator of Catholic identity. Ralph MacInerny himself has raised serious concerns about the faculty profile.
Of course, there is the weird irony that evangelicals like David Solomon (center for ethics) are more supportive of NDs Catholic mission than most of the Catholics…
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aicirt
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I believe the difference would be the Church did not know the men they were ordaining were pedophiles. All knew of Obama’s abortion stand. It is and was public knowledge.
Yes, there are sinners in the Church. Judas, one of the twelve, betrayed Christ right at the Last Supper followed by Peter who denied Christ right after the Last Supper.
ND has a tradition of extending an invitation to POTUS. Not all have accepted. There are exceptions to every rule. Jenkins would have had the backing of his bishop. Jenkins should not have extended the invitation. I find it difficult to equate the President of a Catholic University not obeying his bishop while teaching obedience to the Church at that institution. Very confusing.
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nodito
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I’m not saying it’s a perfect example, but I think the analogy still holds. People sin. Priests sin. Jenkins is no exception. And while I think disobeying the bishop was a serious offense, his decision should not represent the entire school. It’s unfortunate that people see it that way. But it’s also unfortunate that people lose their faith and leave the Church because of bad public or private decisions made by Catholic priests and bishops.
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CatQuilt
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I’m wondering if Richard McBrien still teaches there (in the Theology department?)? That man is truly a heretic.
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diggerdomer
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On clarification, the 5 year dual program is a BS in engineering and a BA in any liberal arts field, not just theology or philosophy.I was not a legacy and I got into ND “early action”. It can be done!
As far as engineering schools go, I do know that many colleges offer 3-2 programs, where you get an engineering degree in 5 years and study 3 years on campus at the school and then 2 years at a bigger school to finish up the degree with higher-level courses and labs. That’s always something to keep on the lookout for.
Also, to plug ND just a little more, a relatively popular program they have is a 5-year engineering dual degree, where students graduate with a BS (I guess that’s what it is!) in Engineering as well as a BA in theology or philosophy. I know several [brilliant!] people who have done this program and absolutely loved it–and they’ve gone on to great engineering jobs with the added benefit of having studied in what Bishop D’Arcy called one of the greatest theology departments in the country.
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Rach620
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By way of explanation, I’d offer that the administration of Notre Dame (ie, the Boards of Trustees/Fellows, along with Fr. Jenkins, the Provost, etc.) operate separately from the students and the faculty, and do not depend on their approval. The decision to invite President Obama and award him with an honorary degree is not something which every person on Notre Dame’s campus or employed by the University supported or endorsed by any stretch of the imagination, and I don’t think that it reflects on the theology department at all. I hope and pray that it does not reflect Notre Dame on the whole.
Hiring decisions are made on the department level at ND, and under the leadership of Prof. Cavadini (Theo Department Chair for awhile now), Notre Dame has developed a very, very solid theology department. The vast majority of the theology faculty have sought and received the mandatum from Bishop D’Arcy. I wasn’t exaggerating when I said earlier that Bishop D’Arcy has spoken highly of ND’s theology department–I heard him speak these words on the very same day Obama delivered the Commencement Address at Notre Dame, when he addressed my graduating theology class at our departmental celebration.
Yes, the proportion of Catholic faculty at ND is something of a dire concern. Since, as I said before, hiring decisions are made at the departmental level, some departments have taken the part of ND’s mission to have a “predominant number of Catholics on the faculty” more seriously than others. ND needs to take decisive steps in seeking out, developing, and hiring serious Catholics in order to reverse this trend, if it is at all possible. Ralph McInerny has written about this, as has Fr. Wilson Miscamble, and both Project Sycamore and the Irish Rover have good info on the whole situation.
Also, Professor Solomon, to my knowledge, is Eastern Orthodox with great respect for the Catholic Church. He is a convert to Orthodoxy from Baptist roots, and he adds more to the Catholic identity of ND than many of our Catholic faculty, combined.
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Domer1997
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QUOTE=Speak Up;5763917]Some things are non-negotiable. Notre Dame will never have access to any of my hard-earned money, nor my precious children. If they can’t proudly and publicly proclaim and defend Catholic moral teachings, then I want nothing to do with them. I would rather send my kids to a secular university that makes no pretense about what it is.
A fake Catholic university, that puts about the message that a man who denied protection of the right to life of the ALREADY BORN, nevermind the unborn, multiple times, is worthy of laud and celebration and welcome… is not one I’ll have anything to do with.
What good are a collegial atmosphere and multiple Mass offerings if the teachings of the Church are ignored and disparaged?
Dear Speak Up,
You are very misinformed about the University of Notre Dame, and this is very sad. I’m sorry that you feel this way. I believe you are doing your children a serious injustice by never allowing them to apply there. But, of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I would recommend you at least take a look at the ND website, www.nd.edu, especially the “Faith and Service” section and read about the wonderful Catholicity of Notre Dame. I believe this will help you to understand the university much better. God Bless. :shamrock2:
A fake Catholic university, that puts about the message that a man who denied protection of the right to life of the ALREADY BORN, nevermind the unborn, multiple times, is worthy of laud and celebration and welcome… is not one I’ll have anything to do with.
What good are a collegial atmosphere and multiple Mass offerings if the teachings of the Church are ignored and disparaged?
Dear Speak Up,
You are very misinformed about the University of Notre Dame, and this is very sad. I’m sorry that you feel this way. I believe you are doing your children a serious injustice by never allowing them to apply there. But, of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I would recommend you at least take a look at the ND website, www.nd.edu, especially the “Faith and Service” section and read about the wonderful Catholicity of Notre Dame. I believe this will help you to understand the university much better. God Bless. :shamrock2:
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Domer1997
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Dear Speak Up,
You are very misinformed about the University of Notre Dame, and this is very sad. I’m sorry that you feel this way. I believe you are doing your children a serious injustice by never allowing them to apply there. But, of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I would recommend you at least take a look at the ND website, www.nd.edu, especially the “Faith and Service” section and read about the wonderful Catholicity of Notre Dame. I believe this will help you to understand the university much better. God Bless. :shamrock2:
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Joannm
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You might be interested to know that there are full habited nuns, I think Dominicans from Ann Arbor, that are sent to study there, at least they have been there all the summer I have been there. I would say they are a very traditional order. Also many vocations have come out of Notre Dame, not only to the CSCs but to diocesan priesthood and other religious orders, including to cloistered orders. Many young students go into professional Church ministry when they graduate and many spend their undergrad time volunteering in the many humanitarian services all over the globe (just look at some of the things on the web site or the “commercials” for the school televised along with the football games).
Of the many people I know who went to ND and students who currently attend, they all LOVE it. It becomes part of you. I spent my undergrad years at a different but not so famous Catholic University and I never experience such a family atmosphere as I did in my five summers at ND, and I am assured that the regular semesters is just the same. Notre Dame becomes part of you. My only regret regarding Notre Dame is that I didn’t have the grades to get into it as an undergrad. I am so happy that my academic achievements allowed me to attend graduate school there, even though at my age many people thought I was nuts to be living in a dorm.
Of the many people I know who went to ND and students who currently attend, they all LOVE it. It becomes part of you. I spent my undergrad years at a different but not so famous Catholic University and I never experience such a family atmosphere as I did in my five summers at ND, and I am assured that the regular semesters is just the same. Notre Dame becomes part of you. My only regret regarding Notre Dame is that I didn’t have the grades to get into it as an undergrad. I am so happy that my academic achievements allowed me to attend graduate school there, even though at my age many people thought I was nuts to be living in a dorm.
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Domer1997
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Dear Love My Boys,I understand your point. My son is one of the great kids who would work to change some of the minds of the crazy pro-abortion liberals, not become one of them.
There’s nothing pro-choice about Notre Dame.
You should be rest assured that your son will be in great hands. I promise. I hope he gets in. Good luck to him and GO IRISH!
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BadTurkey
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Personally, I do not have a favorable opinion of Notre Dame as a Catholic institution. The recent fiasco of having Obama speak at their campus is pretty telling. I’m having trouble believing that they take the Catholic faith very seriously over there. Just my $0.02.
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Domer1997
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I believe the OP will have to just trust the alumni of Notre Dame who are consistently stating on this site that the university takes her Catholicism very seriously. No offense, but your $.02 isn’t worth much unless you’ve been there to experience ND. It’s a wonderful place where one can truly grow in his or her faith. Even the marching band formed the seal of the Congregation of Holy Cross before the game on Saturday. Kind of nice to see that. Also, nice to see the 15 Masses after the game packed to full capacity.
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