Notre Dame student groups reject Obama invitation, launch Red Letter campaign

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I have to say, while reading this thread, Ronald E has shown a great deal of wisdom in his thoughtful and nuanced responses. Cracker Mom, on the other hand, has been a great example of the sort of small-mindedness that originally drove me away from the Church.

I’m glad that there is still a place for intelligence in the Catholic Church.
 
Ronald_E said:
I respect their work and they are great for those who agree with them. Do they know how to reach those who disagree? Methods that are the same as the non-believers show a conformity to the world. Their results are limited. If you have the Magnificat read the meditation for 3-30 and let me know what you think.
I reject being VERY VOCAL because it is the way of the world. You want to save the unborn then go on a walking pilgrimage across the U.S. and pray the Rosary silently. Get one million Catholics who can make a leap of fatih to do this and you will see abortion stop. If you say this is not practical then you are conformed to the ways of the world.
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I think there are at least thousands, if not a million Catholics who have taken part in the 40 Days for Life, standing outside abortion clinics, JUST STANDING and PRAYING and if given the chance counseling. For many, many years there have been many more who have stood in all kinds of weather out side abortion clinics and prayed for the unborn and their mothers. Their prayers are not done in secret, nor in absolute silence. These people are a visible witness to the truths of the Almighty.

Then there is the annual Right to Life march in DCA. Very visible, but quiet. These are not the ones yelling in people’s faces, but the ones who quietly and with dignity stand for Christ. We are the “visible” presence of the body of Christ and must defend Him as best we can.

Christ asked us to be witness to him, through prayer and action, whether it be standing outside an abortion clinic, or serving in a soup kitchen.

I would say these men, Fathers Corapi, Pavone, Eutenauer, Bishops Chaput, Finn, Hermann, Neumaur, Burke, Pope Benedict XVI and so many, many more fine defenders of the Faith, do not stand back and expect God to fight His battles alone. They, much better than you, or I,know how to teach those who disagree. It is through God that those who are being taught, listen.
 
Ronald_E said:
I respect their work and they are great for those who agree with them. Do they know how to reach those who disagree? Methods that are the same as the non-believers show a conformity to the world. Their results are limited. If you have the Magnificat read the meditation for 3-30? Are you talking about the publication? No, I haven’t subscribed. and let me know what you think.
I reject being VERY VOCAL because it is the way of the world. You want to save the unborn then go on a walking pilgrimage across the U.S. and pray the Rosary silently. Get one million Catholics who can make a leap of fatih to do this and you will see abortion stop. If you say this is not practical then you are conformed to the ways of the world.
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Ronald_E said:
I respect their work and they are great for those who agree with them. Do they know how to reach those who disagree? Methods that are the same as the non-believers show a conformity to the world. Their results are limited. If you have the Magnificat read the meditation for 3-30 and let me know what you think.
I reject being VERY VOCAL because it is the way of the world. You want to save the unborn then go on a walking pilgrimage across the U.S. and pray the Rosary silently. Get one million Catholics who can make a leap of fatih to do this and you will see abortion stop. If you say this is not practical then you are conformed to the ways of the world.
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Jesus did not throw the Pharisees out of the Temple quietly, he was very vocal and very forcefull., he was not just sitting on the side praying they would leave , he made them leave. We are to do no less than Jesus when defending the faith, he does not require us to stay silent. What you do for the least of these you do for me, prayer and action.
By the way all those priests you mentioned also pray and pray a lot for fallen away Catholics, people who wish to be catholic and for all those babies who will be aborted.
I am sure they all spend hours in front of The Blessed Sacrament. and praying the rosary.
 
Nordar said:
Jesus did not throw the Pharisees out of the Temple quietly, he was very vocal and very forcefull., he was not just sitting on the side praying they would leave , he made them leave. We are to do no less than Jesus when defending the faith, he does not require us to stay silent. What you do for the least of these you do for me, prayer and action.
By the way all those priests you mentioned also pray and pray a lot for fallen away Catholics, people who wish to be catholic and for all those babies who will be aborted.
I am sure they all spend hours in front of The Blessed Sacrament. and praying the rosary.
Click to expand...
I understand your point. I guess you do not have the patience to understand what I am saying. It was people in His faith that He was angry with. Jesus is God. He knows what He is doing. Your anger is definitely different from God’s. Please be honest with yourself. If you do not draw people to the faith with God’s Love then …
 
Nordar said:
Jesus did not throw the Pharisees out of the Temple quietly, he was very vocal and very forcefull., he was not just sitting on the side praying they would leave , he made them leave. We are to do no less than Jesus when defending the faith, he does not require us to stay silent. What you do for the least of these you do for me, prayer and action.
By the way all those priests you mentioned also pray and pray a lot for fallen away Catholics, people who wish to be catholic and for all those babies who will be aborted.
I am sure they all spend hours in front of The Blessed Sacrament. and praying the rosary.
Click to expand...
Sorry if this is off topic, please ignore it if so…but…where do you get the idea that Jesus threw the Pharisees out of the Temple?
 
Luis_Santiago said:
I have to say, while reading this thread, Ronald E has shown a great deal of wisdom in his thoughtful and nuanced responses. Cracker Mom, on the other hand, has been a great example of the sort of small-mindedness that originally drove me away from the Church.

I’m glad that there is still a place for intelligence in the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Luis, Thank you beyond words for the blessing you have given me. You have been a light in the darkness here. It is amazing that I get attacked because I proclaim God’s Love as the way to begin to resolve this issue.
I will not be driven away by that same hardness of heart that I experienced 40 years ago. God’s Love brought me home. Nobody shouting with ‘righteous indignation’ converted me. It was in the silence of God’s Love that my conversion took place. I do not care how many pro-life people take the shouting stance. They may love the unborn just like I do. However, I also love those who are born who are different than me. When a baby experiences hostility penetrating the womb the baby’s brain goes into shock and the delicate balance is disturbed and if the hostility continues this child’s brain is hardwired to be hypersensitive to any hostility in the environment.
Those who are more aggressive are more prone to resolving moral issues with hostility. It only drives those who need love further away from my beautiful faith. But, it seems, they will not bend from the power that their hostility gives them.
Luis, God Bless You, God Bless those who disagree with me, God Bless Notre Dame and the administration for their courage of faith and God Bless President Obama.
 
Ronald_E said:
Luis, Thank you beyond words for the blessing you have given me. You have been a light in the darkness here. It is amazing that I get attacked because I proclaim God’s Love as the way to begin to resolve this issue.
I will not be driven away by that same hardness of heart that I experienced 40 years ago. God’s Love brought me home. Nobody shouting with ‘righteous indignation’ converted me. It was in the silence of God’s Love that my conversion took place. I do not care how many pro-life people take the shouting stance. They may love the unborn just like I do. However, I also love those who are born who are different than me. When a baby experiences hostility penetrating the womb the baby’s brain goes into shock and the delicate balance is disturbed and if the hostility continues this child’s brain is hardwired to be hypersensitive to any hostility in the environment.
Those who are more aggressive are more prone to resolving moral issues with hostility. It only drives those who need love further away from my beautiful faith. But, it seems, they will not bend from the power that their hostility gives them.
Luis, God Bless You, God Bless those who disagree with me, God Bless Notre Dame and the administration for their courage of faith and God Bless President Obama.
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I see in your words, you also have the tendency to judge others. Not saying I don’t. Neither of us are Saints, but I realize I’m not.
 
Ronald_E said:
Luis, Thank you beyond words for the blessing you have given me. You have been a light in the darkness here. It is amazing that I get attacked because I proclaim God’s Love as the way to begin to resolve this issue.
I will not be driven away by that same hardness of heart that I experienced 40 years ago. God’s Love brought me home. Nobody shouting with ‘righteous indignation’ converted me. It was in the silence of God’s Love that my conversion took place. I do not care how many pro-life people take the shouting stance. They may love the unborn just like I do. However, I also love those who are born who are different than me. When a baby experiences hostility penetrating the womb the baby’s brain goes into shock and the delicate balance is disturbed and if the hostility continues this child’s brain is hardwired to be hypersensitive to any hostility in the environment.
Those who are more aggressive are more prone to resolving moral issues with hostility. It only drives those who need love further away from my beautiful faith. But, it seems, they will not bend from the power that their hostility gives them.
Luis, God Bless You, God Bless those who disagree with me, God Bless Notre Dame and the administration for their courage of faith and God Bless President Obama.
Click to expand...
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici_en.html

POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI
OF
HIS HOLINESS
JOHN PAUL II
ON THE VOCATION AND THE MISSION
OF THE LAY FAITHFUL IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE WORLD

At the same time, the Synod has pointed out that the post-conciliar path of the lay faithful has not been without its difficulties and dangers. In particular, two temptations can be cited which they have not always known how to avoid: the temptation of being so strongly interested in Church services and tasks that some fail to become actively engaged in their responsibilities in the professional, social, cultural and political world; and the temptation of legitimizing the unwarranted separation of faith from life, that is, a separation of the Gospel’s acceptance from the actual living of the Gospel in various situations in the world.
The Pressing Needs of the World Today: "Why do you stand here idle all day?"3.

The basic meaning of this Synod and the most precious fruit desired as a result of it, is the lay faithful’s hearkening to the call of Christ the Lord to work in his vineyard, to take an active, conscientious and responsible part in the mission of the Church in this great moment in history, made especially dramatic by occurring on the threshold of the Third Millennium.

A new state of affairs today both in the Church and in social, economic, political and cultural life, calls with a particular urgency for the action of the lay faithful. If lack of commitment is always unacceptable, the present time renders it even more so. It is not permissible for anyone to remain idle.
 
elts1956 said:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici_en.html

POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI
OF
HIS HOLINESS
JOHN PAUL II
ON THE VOCATION AND THE MISSION
OF THE LAY FAITHFUL IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE WORLD

At the same time, the Synod has pointed out that the post-conciliar path of the lay faithful has not been without its difficulties and dangers. In particular, two temptations can be cited which they have not always known how to avoid: the temptation of being so strongly interested in Church services and tasks that some fail to become actively engaged in their responsibilities in the professional, social, cultural and political world; and the temptation of legitimizing the unwarranted separation of faith from life, that is, a separation of the Gospel’s acceptance from the actual living of the Gospel in various situations in the world.
The Pressing Needs of the World Today: "Why do you stand here idle all day?"3.

The basic meaning of this Synod and the most precious fruit desired as a result of it, is the lay faithful’s hearkening to the call of Christ the Lord to work in his vineyard, to take an active, conscientious and responsible part in the mission of the Church in this great moment in history, made especially dramatic by occurring on the threshold of the Third Millennium.

A new state of affairs today both in the Church and in social, economic, political and cultural life, calls with a particular urgency for the action of the lay faithful. If lack of commitment is always unacceptable, the present time renders it even more so. It is not permissible for anyone to remain idle.
Click to expand...
What is your point?
 
elts1956 said:
I see in your words, you also have the tendency to judge others. Not saying I don’t. Neither of us are Saints, but I realize I’m not.
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I hear their words and see actions and give my interpretation based on what I know about my faith and my life’s vocation.
Where did I bring the saints into the conversation? I felt a backhand. Where did that come from?
 
Ronald,

You’ve fallen for one of Satan’s top 10 tricks. St Paul warns us about this one when he admonished the faithful that we are ALL one body in Christ. The body has many parts, but needs them ALL to function effectively. Can the head say to the hand “I am better than you, my contribution is superior to yours?” Should the feet boast that “without me, the gospel could not travel throughout the world?” (I’m paraphrasing, of course)

What you say about conversion via love rather than argument has a LOT of merit. But what you are missing is that we cannot allow our faith to be exploited for the personal political gain of those whose intentions are outright evil. This is the kind of accomodationist logic that has people today saying that the Catholic Church collaborated with Nazis in WWII. The reality is that a lot of people failed to take strong stances and trusted that a loving invitation would be enough.

But when genocide is happening, catholics are obligated to both pray AND act. We need to keep the heart and the hands on the same team and not let the evil one divide us against ourselves.
 
manualman said:
Ronald,

You’ve fallen for one of Satan’s top 10 tricks. St Paul warns us about this one when he admonished the faithful that we are ALL one body in Christ. The body has many parts, but needs them ALL to function effectively. Can the head say to the hand “I am better than you, my contribution is superior to yours?” Should the feet boast that “without me, the gospel could not travel throughout the world?” (I’m paraphrasing, of course)

What you say about conversion via love rather than argument has a LOT of merit. But what you are missing is that we cannot allow our faith to be exploited for the personal political gain of those whose intentions are outright evil. This is the kind of accomodationist logic that has people today saying that the Catholic Church collaborated with Nazis in WWII. The reality is that a lot of people failed to take strong stances and trusted that a loving invitation would be enough.

But when genocide is happening, catholics are obligated to both pray AND act. We need to keep the heart and the hands on the same team and not let the evil one divide us against ourselves.
Click to expand...
Disposition of heart is the most important aspect of our action. I wrote a letter to Pope Benedict in Sept of '06 and asked him to lead us on a pilgrimage to Darfur and show the world what our faith really is. I referenced the Holocaust and the passivity that caused it. There could have been millions of saints without guns standing and praying silently ready to sacrifice as one body to stop that evil. That was written on my old computer and I do not know how to get it to the new one. If you want I could mail you a copy of that letter and the Pope’s reply so you can have a better understanding of my message rather than jumping to false and damaging conclusions about the nature of me and my relationship with God.
 
Naturally, I don’t know any more about you than I’ve read here.

I’m confused. We should take strong action to prevent genocide in Darfur, but restrict ourselves to prayer to end genocide in America? I’m not trying to argue, I just don’t see a consistency.

The catholic university of Notre Dame is bestowing an HONOR on a man who has already begun to force you and I to pay for abortions with our tax money. He has announced his intention to strip conscience protections from health care workers who refuse to participate in abortion.

Would YOU not be a bit incensed if Notre Dame invited the leadership of Sudan’s government to give them an honorary degree in human rights???
 
Ronald_E said:
I respect their work and they are great for those who agree with them. Do they know how to reach those who disagree? Methods that are the same as the non-believers show a conformity to the world. Their results are limited. If you have the Magnificat read the meditation for 3-30 and let me know what you think.
I reject being VERY VOCAL because it is the way of the world. You want to save the unborn then go on a walking pilgrimage across the U.S. and pray the Rosary silently. Get one million Catholics who can make a leap of fatih to do this and you will see abortion stop. If you say this is not practical then you are conformed to the ways of the world.
Click to expand...
 
Ronald_E said:
I understand your point. I guess you do not have the patience to understand what I am saying. It was people in His faith that He was angry with. Jesus is God. He knows what He is doing. Your anger is definitely different from God’s. Please be honest with yourself. If you do not draw people to the faith with God’s Love then …
Click to expand...
I have to say for someone who is espousing all this patience and peacefull love you are not only very judgemental but patronizing and condescending.
I have an infinite ammount of patience, which has nothing to do with the fact that I disagree with you.
Where is your insistance that I am angry coming from, that is your judgement that has no merit. I am not angry,I am saddened and disgusted that Our Faith is being trashed the way that it is. So far you have said I have weak faith, I am angry which in your opinion is wrong. In your request for me to please be honest with myself does that mean I have to agree with you?
Perhaps you should take a look at yourself and your judegmental attitude when you speak of bringing others into the fold.
 
diggerdomer said:
Sorry if this is off topic, please ignore it if so…but…where do you get the idea that Jesus threw the Pharisees out of the Temple?
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Sorry I meant to say the money exchangers and thieves, I don’t know why I said Pharisees!😊
 
Nordar said:
I have to say for someone who is espousing all this patience and peacefull love you are not only very judgemental but patronizing and condescending.
I have an infinite ammount of patience, which has nothing to do with the fact that I disagree with you.
Where is your insistance that I am angry coming from, that is your judgement that has no merit. I am not angry,I am saddened and disgusted that Our Faith is being trashed the way that it is. So far you have said I have weak faith, I am angry which in your opinion is wrong. In your request for me to please be honest with myself does that mean I have to agree with you?
Perhaps you should take a look at yourself and your judegmental attitude when you speak of bringing others into the fold.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point.
 
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