Novus Ordo / EF parish relations

[Geremia]

How are the relations between Novus Ordo and Extraordinary Form (EF) parishes, parishioners, and priests in your experience? In my experience they are very, very ugly, even at the interpersonal level. It seems Summorum Pontificum has created more divisions, but I think these are only a passing stage.

Mother Mary, pray for unity of the Church’s flock and an increase of our faith, hope, and charity!

 

[ConstantineTG]

How are the relations between Novus Ordo and Extraordinary Form (EF) parishes, parishioners, and priests in your experience? In my experience they are very, very ugly, even at the interpersonal level. It seems Summorum Pontificum has created more divisions, but I think these are only a passing stage.

Mother Mary, pray for unity of the Church’s flock and an increase of our faith, hope, and charity!

Probably more on the praishioner level. But I haven’t heard anything in our diocese. Maybe I’m ignorant of the fact? I do not know.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I didn’t pick an option because I have actually been in three different situations.

1. The celebrant of the traditional Mass was the pastor and sole priest of the parish, making relations with him great! We had very little contact with the OF community at that parish, though, so under his tenure I would call those relations more non-existent than either good or bad.
2. Then he got transferred, and the new pastor was hostile. We had to find ourselves another EF celebrant - despite the fact that we were a stable community with years of history behind us and this was right when SP was released - which took us some months and led to unreliable coverage. We were also kicked out of the parish hall; the brunch we held after every Sunday Mass was temporarily “banned,” you might say, then allowed to resume in the rectory basement. When we received an FSSP priest, I think that priest could tell right away that the pastor was intentionally uncooperative. We continued to have little to no contact with the rest of the parish.
3. But then the bishop moved us to a different parish with a much more traditional architecture (and just refurbished ca. 2005!) in a better part of town, and both the pastor and community have been incredibly welcoming and accommodating. We are invited to (and participate in) parish social events, the pastor sometimes assists in choir at our Masses, and we were given two seats on the parish council. It is nearly an ideal situation.

So, in short: How are relations between OF and EF adherents? Depends.

 

[HCC]

The parish I attend for weekday EF Mass, seems well blended. The EF folks seem to be the majority and well, it’s NYC where you’re used to everyone sort of “doing their thing.”

However, at the parish I attend on Sundays, where Archbishop Sheen preached, you get the sense the crowd coming in for the OF Mass after the EF Mass are a little annoyed. Some of them come in with an annoyed look on their faces, like, “Get out of MY church!” and can be a little brusque. More than the normal NYer, “Get outta’ my way” mentality.

But, is it really THAT bad all over the place?

Seesh…

+Lamb of God, grant us Thy PEACE!

 

[malphono]

The option that’s missing is “neutral” which I would have voted.

I don’t see divisions as such, but I do see non-interaction, and the fault there lies on both sides. Where I attend is a parish where a guest priest normally (but not always) offers the EF. When he’s absent, the pastor (who is a supporter of the EF despite – or perhaps because of – his young age) takes it. In short, there’s no problem with the clergy involved.

One part of the problem with the laity is that a number of EF people are not actually parishioners as such, but come in from elsewhere. Some of those are “rad-trads” with the usual attitude. (By way of example, they have a “coffee hour” after Mass from which the parishioners – even those who regularly attend the EF – and other visitors are excluded. Frankly I suspect they merely tolerate the presence of the priest as a necessary evil since he’s not “one of them” by any stretch.) Another part of the problem is that some of the OF people are hostile to the very existence of the EF, and not welcoming of any of the EF people (including those who are their fellow parishioners).

All that said, though, the non “rad-trads” in the EF community, along with the majority of the OF people, are “neutral” in that they have no problem with one another. There’s as much (or, depending on one’s point of view, as little) interaction between the two groups as there is between those who habitually attend the 8 o’clock OF Mass and those who attend the 10 o’clock OF Mass. I should also add that parishioners of both stripes are welcome to, and do, serve on various parish committees, and participate in various parish activities.

 

[HCC]

The option that’s missing is “neutral” which I would have voted.

I don’t see divisions as such, but I do see non-interaction, and the fault there lies on both sides. Where I attend is a parish where a guest priest normally (but not always) offers the EF. When he’s absent, the pastor (who is a supporter of the EF despite – or perhaps because of – his young age) takes it. In short, there’s no problem with the clergy involved.

One part of the problem with the laity is that a number of EF people are not actually parishioners as such, but come in from elsewhere. Some of those are “rad-trads” with the usual attitude. (By way of example, they have a “coffee hour” after Mass from which the parishioners – even those who regularly attend the EF – and other visitors are excluded. Frankly I suspect they merely tolerate the presence of the priest as a necessary evil since he’s not “one of them” by any stretch.) Another part of the problem is that some of the OF people are hostile to the very existence of the EF, and not welcoming of any of the EF people (including those who are their fellow parishioners).

All that said, though, the non “rad-trads” in the EF community, along with the majority of the OF people, are “neutral” in that they have no problem with one another. There’s as much (or, depending on one’s point of view, as little) interaction between the two groups as there is between those who habitually attend the 8 o’clock OF Mass and those who attend the 10 o’clock OF Mass. I should also add that parishioners of both stripes are welcome to, and do, serve on various parish committees, and participate in various parish activities.

Is this at Our Savior? I’m trying out that Mass this Sunday.

 

[malphono]

Is this at Our Savior? I’m trying out that Mass this Sunday.

No, it’s elsewhere. I’ve never been to Our Savior but I have heard some very good things about it.

 

[Seamus_L]

I don’t see many problems in the Archdiocese of Chicago, mainly because the EF is offered in parishes where typically you already have a base of Traditionally minded people. It’s more a case of us just not having much contact with the people who attend the OF masses, then there being tension. For instance, you wouldn’t be surprised if someone in a large OF parish who’s been attending the 7am mass for 20 years tells you they know very few people from the 11am mass.
What alot of non-Traditional Catholics probably don't understand is that our loyalty to the EF comes before our loyalty to a parish, and that's why on a Holy Day of Obligation when we may not be able to attend the Noon Latin Mass in our parish, we forego attending the 7pm OF at the same parish and instead where the EF is being offered.

 

[HCC]

I don’t see many problems in the Archdiocese of Chicago, mainly because the EF is offered in parishes where typically you already have a base of Traditionally minded people. It’s more a case of us just not having much contact with the people who attend the OF masses, then there being tension. For instance, you wouldn’t be surprised if someone in a large OF parish who’s been attending the 7am mass for 20 years tells you they know very few people from the 11am mass.

                                What alot of non-Traditional Catholics probably don't understand is that our loyalty to the EF comes before our loyalty to a parish, and that's why on a Holy Day of Obligation when we may not be able to attend the Noon Latin Mass in our parish, we forego attending the 7pm OF at the same parish and instead where the EF is being offered.

Seamus, have you been to the new Shrine of Christ the King yet?

institute-christ-king.org/chicago/

 

[wisdomseeker]

How are the relations between Novus Ordo and Extraordinary Form (EF) parishes, parishioners, and priests in your experience? In my experience they are very, very ugly, even at the interpersonal level. It seems Summorum Pontificum has created more divisions, but I think these are only a passing stage.

Mother Mary, pray for unity of the Church’s flock and an increase of our faith, hope, and charity!

i read a letter from the OF priest to a professor and defender of SSPX. it was just beautifull. i wish i could find and translate. anyway, this priest of the OF apparently was hostile toward the professor but he continued to read how the professor defended the CC and her Traditions. the priest decided to learn more in depth about the CC. this priest finally wrote a letter to the professor and apologized to the professor a million times and told the professor he was right. the priest was going to the Vatican and he told the professor this. the letter of the professor to the priest brings tears to your eyes. the professor showed so much love for this priest and the priest’s letter had brought him so much joy. the professor asks the priest for his blessings and that he wanted to go meet the priest at the airport before he left to Vatican so he could kiss his hand. it was the most amazing words between those two. this is the true charism giving by God.

i will try to find the letter and show it here.

 

[Seamus_L]

HCC
I've been to the Institute of Christ the King (St Clara) several times.

 

[OraLabora]

It seems Summorum Pontificum has created more divisions, but I think these are only a passing stage.

For an institution 2010 years old, a “passing stage” can end up being more than a lifetime.

The Anglicans have been through the same thing with the Book of Common Prayer and the Book of Alternative Services.

The BCP and BAS folks at my wife’s Anglican parish can’t stand each other, and don’t talk to each other. The BAS came out in 1985. I don’t see it being resolved any time soon.

 

[MikeDunphy]

We have a priest from the priestly Fraternity of St. Peter in residence at our parish. He and the pastor seem to get along well, as far as I can tell. The pastor sometimes assists in distributing Holy Communion at our EF Mass. The FSSP priest assists with confession. At least one other priest and a deacon from the parish also help with distributing Communion at the EF.

A parishioner leaving the daily OF Mass as I walked in for the EF seemed friendly, and even a retired progressive priest returning to our parish for a visit did not seem greatly disturbed when I told him I was headed over to the Latin Mass.

I am sure that some parishioners here dislike the EF, and that the majority are indifferent to its presence. I know we do have some parish politics, but it isn’t something I’m part of; I couldn’t tell you whether the return of the TLM has been a contentious issue.

 

[tbtcom1213]

The parish I attend for weekday EF Mass, seems well blended. The EF folks seem to be the majority and well, it’s NYC where you’re used to everyone sort of “doing their thing.”

However, at the parish I attend on Sundays, where Archbishop Sheen preached, you get the sense the crowd coming in for the OF Mass after the EF Mass are a little annoyed. Some of them come in with an annoyed look on their faces, like, “Get out of MY church!” and can be a little brusque. More than the normal NYer, “Get outta’ my way” mentality.

But, is it really THAT bad all over the place?

Seesh…

+Lamb of God, grant us Thy PEACE!

I served Mass at that church since last November and currently at two nearby churches which hold the Tridentine Masses. You’re right about the annoyed people (and might I add annoyed Pastor) that encounter the EF parishioners after the EF Mass and before the OF Mass. At the other churches the EF/OF crowd get along better and the Pastors are much more supportive.

 

[HCC]

HCC

                          I've been to the Institute of Christ the King (St Clara) several times.

Care to expound on the experience? I’m considering moving back to Chicago very soon. Any advice on ways to meet other young adult Catholics and groups to get involved in would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[DavidPalm]

In our situation, the diocesan priest and ICK priest get along fine. And most of the NO parishioners are basically neutral. But there is a minority, small but vocal, who despise us and deeply resent our presence. We’ve tried to socialize with those who assist at the NO, but it’s difficult to bridge the gaps. As for doing anything together that has any liturgical component, that’s out. So it remains tenuous.

 

[HCC]

I served Mass at that church since last November and currently at two nearby churches which hold the Tridentine Masses. You’re right about the annoyed people (and might I add annoyed Pastor) that encounter the EF parishioners after the EF Mass and before the OF Mass. At the other churches the EF/OF crowd get along better and the Pastors are much more supportive.

Which is so odd. We’re talking about a church 3 doors down from Grand Central Station, where millions of people pass through everyday. How can they not expect all different kinds of people to be visiting their parish?

I held the door for a woman Sunday as I was going out and she was coming in. I smiled and she made this face like I had just sworn at her and trudged in.

How can we resolve this? It’s so silly.

 

[Lormar]

Is this St. Agnes? If so, the news astounds me because it was not like that in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Like-minded Catholics and kindred souls - that is what I found.

 

[LoyalViews]

Well, I would say they are good–well, where I am at. The Priests all get along very good, and every Mass in the vernacular (the NO) have been very Orthodox and reverent (with a few exceptions, of course. Not everything is peaches and cream). The EF and NO Priests get along very good…normally. There is no rivalry. I also think that the NO Priests attend the EF Mass! I prefer the TLM, so I don’t know if the EF Priests go to the NO Mass or not. God Bless.

I don’t know about the laity, though.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Here are the letters. the first from a priest and the last from the professor. true love between and OF priest and SSPX professor.

Dear Mr. Orlando,
I’m sorry for my rudeness to you.
I was a little nervous that day, and seeing your texts it made it worse.
But studying and analyzing everything that relates to the period of our Most Holy Church after Vatican II, I have to admit that there really are abuses, and now, i am very embarrassed by my attitude, know that I’ll be a great precursor to all of your site and to all of the faithful of our parish.
Sorry for everything I said. After all, you and all the clergy, only wants the good of our Church founded on Peter.
Congratulations for your actions, and I’m sorry, I feel very ashamed.
God bless you and the Blessed Virgin Mary cover you with his mantle of maternal love and infinite power.
Again weight excuses.
I will pray for you at St. Peter in the Vatican next week.
Godspeed.

Father Renato

Very Reverend and dear Father Renato,
Hail Mary.

I am who  bow my knees before you, Father, i am  beseeching your blessing. May God reward you for that letter you sent me, and that mirrors great humility, a truly priestly soul, that is, to offer sacrifice. The sacrifice of Christ, and to sacrifice himself.
God reward you, Father Renato. God reward you for your wonderful gesture.
O happy contrast to me that there is an allowed act as generous as yours!
This letter, Father, I acknowledge you as one of the most beautiful letter I have received on the site Montfort and reverently kiss the hand that laid drafted.
God reward?
God will surely reward you.
Be aware, Father, that you won my soul as well as the admiration of all readers at the Montfort site. Last night, I read your letter to members of Montfort who were in our office, and all expressed effusive admiration for the virtue shown by the master, virtue gained, indeed, in prayer near the altar. All manifested the joy that is to recognize a new and wonderful friend.
Thank you so much for your prayers and your votes for me and Montfort, particularly those in St. Peter's will, later this week for us.
I wanted to ask you a favor. You certainly will go to Rome departing from Guarulhos airport, which is near my house. It would be an outstanding honor for me to go to the airport on your departure, to meet you, give you a hug my friend, and receive the master of your priestly blessing. I ask you because if it is not uncomfortable or inappropriate, let me know the day, flight, and time of your departure.
Anyway, Father, may God reward you eternally for your greatness and humility. I thank God that for a priest like you as well as our Lord and God allowing me to have contact with you. Who has a good Father and friend, has extraordinary support in God. your friendship honored me, Father. And honor the Montfort.
Our Lady may sustain you throughout the rest of your days. That they are numerous and well and in copious fruit of God, leading you to its deserved glory in heaven.
I pray for your blessings, Father, offering tribute branch, my admiration and my deep sincere friendship

In Corde Jesu, always, forever,
Orlando Fedeli
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