Novus Ordo in Latin

[pjn6444]

Considering an increase in the number of people coming here from Central and South America, would it be a good idea to start doing the masses in Latin? A few weeks ago at my church the music director asked if I would like to make the song selections for the week. I chose some Latin songs and some English songs. The Latin was centered around the Eucharist. The Latino people seemed to appreciate some of it being in Latin. Latin would seem to be a good middle ground. It would seem to be welcoming to both the Latino and Anglo communities. With the large amount of immigrants coming to, and the rise of mulit-lingualism it would seem a good idea to use Latin for the Liturgy, if the community was more diverse. I do not like it when there are 3 English masses and 1 Spannish mass. It separates the community so much. IMO it would be a great way to build community. Sometimes at some of the parishes I have been at that there are two bodies of worshippers, the Anglo and the Latino. Since the mass should also build community it would seem practical to use a universal language that anyone could access.

I will qualify this a bit. Latin has decreased in American usage in the last 60 years. I do not just mean in Catholic circles. I mean all over the US. Schools use to teach children Latin, Colleges had their mottos in Latin, etc. But, again it would seem maybe as a society we should pick it up again. I would seem useful in communicating with an ever more diverse society.

 

[scott1228]

Yes!

It would be nice to go to different churches in different parts of the world and here the mass in Latin. I have usually been able to find English speaking services, but my travels have been limited.

In addition, Latin is the language the mass was written in. Not only is it beautiful, you cannot really translate it completely without doing damage. Example, from the Gloria, tu solus sanctus, tu solus dominus, tu solus altisimus.

that has a simplicity and beauty not fully present in the english.

In addition, the Second Vatican Council actually encouraged use of Latin.

Lastly, the snippets of Latin used in the liturgy are not difficult to learn, it isn’t as if you have to learn how to speak latin to understand the Latin mass.

Scott

 

[Kielbasi]

As far as Catholics being divided by ethicity in the US, which you bemoan, this is a long standing policy in the church in America.

Many of the parishes have since closed as the members became Americanized, but when I was a kid, Poles, Slovaks, Slovenes, Croats, etc., all had their own separate parishes, and that was when mass was said in Latin everywhere. There is no reason to think that there wouldn’t be separate masses for foreign speakers today, even if it was all in Latin.

Prelates like Archbishop Ireland dealt with this issue specifically during the huge wave of industrial immigration a hundred years ago.

 

[NetNuncio]

"In addition, the Second Vatican Council actually encouraged use of Latin. "

More than that…The Second Vatican Council MANDATED the use of Latin in the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium

1. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.
2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters.

So, the use of vernacular is allowed. The use of Latin is to be preserved, thus giving Latin a preference.

 

[benedictgal]

"In addition, the Second Vatican Council actually encouraged use of Latin. "

More than that…The Second Vatican Council MANDATED the use of Latin in the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium

1. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.
2. But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters.

So, the use of vernacular is allowed. The use of Latin is to be preserved, thus giving Latin a preference.

Furthermore, Pope Benedict XVI, in Sacramentum Caritatis, also heavily encourages the use of Latin in the Holy Sacrifice, especially when there is more than one vernacular language involved:

The Latin language

1. None of the above observations should cast doubt upon the importance of such large-scale liturgies. I am thinking here particularly of celebrations at international gatherings, which nowadays are held with greater frequency. The most should be made of these occasions. In order to express more clearly the unity and universality of the*** Church, I wish to endorse the proposal made by the Synod of Bishops, in harmony with the directives of the Second Vatican Council, (182) that, with the exception of the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful, it is fitting that such liturgies be celebrated in Latin. Similarly, ***the better-known prayers (183) of the Church’s tradition should be recited in Latin and, if possible, selections of Gregorian chant should be sung. Speaking more generally, I ask that future priests, from their time in the seminary, receive the preparation needed to understand and to celebrate Mass in Latin, and also to use Latin texts and execute Gregorian chant; nor should we forget that the faithful can be taught to recite the more common prayers in Latin, and also to sing parts of the liturgy to Gregorian chant. (184)

Our Christmas Day Mass at my parish was bilingual; however, when it came time for the Eucharistic Prayer, my PV, who was the celebrant, prayed the Roman Canon in Latin, much to the surprise of the faithful. It was beautiful and very prayerful.

 

[Brendan]

The parish my father grew up in was a mix of Hispanics and Irish. They all celebrated together in Latin.

When Vatican II came about, the just switched to the N.O. Mass in Latin and continued on as they had before. It wasn’t until the late 80’s when they switched to the seperate English\Spainish Masses and that was mostly due to a new pastor who didn’t like Latin.

The seperate ethic parish that Kielbasi was more a result of the mix of the local neighborhood than of a specific Church policy if the neighborhood was all Polish, the parish was considered to be a ‘Polish’ parish. But an Italian could still go to Mass there and worship in the same way as they did in an ‘Italian’ parish.

Parishes with mixed ethic groups worshiped together in Latin with my fathers parish being a great example.

One other thing that happened to us. My wife is French Canadian, from a small town between Montreal and Quebec City. While we were there one summer, we went to Mass. Mass isn’t all that popular with young people in Quebec right now, so even without our kids, my wife and I would have been the youngest ones there ( I’m in my early 40’s). The priest was pleased to see actual kids at Mass and offered to say part of Mass in English, so that we could understand. I suggested Latin, so we could all follow along. And that is what he did. He said the Eucharistic Prayer in Latin. The older French attendess immediatly recognized it and understood, and my kids have been exposed to it enough that they could as well. So we could all worship together in the same language

 

[Kielbasi]

The seperate ethic parish that Kielbasi was more a result of the mix of the local neighborhood than of a specific Church policy if the neighborhood was all Polish, the parish was considered to be a ‘Polish’ parish. But an Italian could still go to Mass there and worship in the same way as they did in an ‘Italian’ parish.

Different ethnic groups within the same neighborhood had their own Catholic churches in Pittsburgh. Southside, for example, had Polish, Slovak, Lithuanian and German parishes within the same community. The Strip had Polish, Slovak and Irish.

Of course, Slovaks wouldn’t be shown the door if they arrived to worship at a Polish church, today Spanish speakers aren’t tossed from English masses either.

The preaching was in the language of the parish, although back in the day the mass was in Latin everywhere.