Novus Ordo or Ordinary Form?

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I’d like to know where the term Novus Ordo came from when referring to the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I hear it used here on the forums in a rather derogatory manner. Can anyone supply the etymology of the term?

Thank you.
 
ProVobis said:
Pope Paul VI himself used the term in 1969:

“Huc spectat novus Ordo Missae, qui, post diuturnam laboriosamque operam collatam ad ritus initiales, Offertorii, Fractionis Panis et Pacis in simpliciorem formam redigendos, …”

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/speeches/1969/april/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19690428_due-congregazioni_lt.html
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He did not however, use it as the title of the Mass. He was simply stating that this was the “new” Order of the Mass, as opposed to the “old” Order of the Mass. Using your logic, we should call the Tridentine the “Old Order” (or however one says it in Latin). We should use the official titles Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form. Even to say Latin Mass for the Tridentine (which btw isn’t an official title either), can mean the Ordinary Form since it was promulgated in Latin.
 
Wouldn’t the Anglican Use be the new “Novus Ordo” anyway?
 
Novus Ordo Missae, New Order Mass, is the term Paul VI used in reference to the new Mass in 1969. Interestingly, Hitler used the same term (Neuordnung in German) to describe his vision of the world during the 1930s and 1940s.

The term Ordinary Form is the term Pope Benedict XVI used his 2007 Motu Proprio, Summorom Pontificum to differentiate between the Novus Ordo Mass of 1969 and the Extraordinary Form or the “Tridentine” or Latin Mass of 1570.
 
Joannm said:
He did not however, use it as the title of the Mass. He was simply stating that this was the “new” Order of the Mass, as opposed to the “old” Order of the Mass. Using your logic, we should call the Tridentine the “Old Order” (or however one says it in Latin). We should use the official titles Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form. Even to say Latin Mass for the Tridentine (which btw isn’t an official title either), can mean the Ordinary Form since it was promulgated in Latin.
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You’re right.
 
HCC said:
Novus Ordo Missae, New Order Missal, is the term Paul VI used in reference to the new Mass in 1969. Interestingly, Hitler used the same term (Neuordnung in German) to describe his vision of the world during the 1930s and 1940s.
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If we’re going by the ‘who used it first’ route, then we should credit Charles Thomson for coming up with Novus ordo seclorum (‘New order of the ages’) for the Great Seal of the United States. 😃

Even so, I strongly believe that the term should be read not as novus Ordo / Missae (as some would read it), but as novus / Ordo Missae, ‘the new Order of the Mass’. Which makes any connection with Hitler and America purely coincidental.
 
patrick457 said:
Even so, I strongly believe that the term should be read not as novus Ordo / Missae (as some would read it), but as novus / Ordo Missae, ‘the new Order of the Mass’. Which makes any connection with Hitler and America purely coincidental.
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Thank you so much. I do so shudder when ppl try to make those connections. 👍
 
patrick457 said:
Even so, I strongly believe that the term should be read not as novus Ordo / Missae (as some would read it), but as novus / Ordo Missae, ‘the new Order of the Mass’. Which makes any connection with Hitler and America purely coincidental.
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This is exactly correct. An “Ordo Missae,” or “Order of Mass,” is basically just a term for the rules and texts of Mass. So the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia could use the phrase in ordinary sentences like,

http://books.google.com/books?id=yn...q7pSaSW2fqNBkx-4JQA&ci=508,470,410,101&edge=0

Thus a “novus Ordo Missae” (as the capitalization should tip people off) is a new set of rules and texts for the Mass. It is not a “New Order” Mass in the way some people like to claim, with “New Order” standing as a vague but threatening phrase probably referring to some massive world change. So, yes, it’s novus {Ordo Missae}, not {Novus Ordo} Mass.
 
patrick457 said:
If we’re going by the ‘who used it first’ route, then we should credit Charles Thomson for coming up with Novus ordo seclorum (‘New order of the ages’) for the Great Seal of the United States. 😃

Even so, I strongly believe that the term should be read not as novus Ordo / Missae (as some would read it), but as novus / Ordo Missae, ‘the new Order of the Mass’. Which makes any connection with Hitler and America purely coincidental.
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Well, if more people had studied Latin as they were supposed to back in 1969, perhaps none of these misunderstandings would have occured. 😉
 
Narthax/Lobby; Potahto/Potayto; Ordinary Form/Novus Ordo; we all know what it means so why quibble?
 
Bob_Aliano said:
Narthax/Lobby; Potahto/Potayto; Ordinary Form/Novus Ordo; we all know what it means so why quibble?
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OOPS! Make that Narthex!

Just learned that Narthax was a snowtrooper who held the rank of sergeant around the time of the Battle of Hoth.
 
Joannm said:
He did not however, use it as the title of the Mass. He was simply stating that this was the “new” Order of the Mass, as opposed to the “old” Order of the Mass. Using your logic, we should call the Tridentine the “Old Order” (or however one says it in Latin). We should use the official titles Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form. Even to say Latin Mass for the Tridentine (which btw isn’t an official title either), can mean the Ordinary Form since it was promulgated in Latin.
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Vetus Ordo = TLM
 
Bob_Aliano said:
Narthex/Lobby; Potahto/Potayto; Ordinary Form/Novus Ordo; we all know what it means so why quibble?
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I only bring it up because so often I see Novus Ordo (NO) used in the threatening manner :frighten: as explained by MarkThompson above. Seems to me “Ordinary Form” (OF) is more correct as well as more exact. :hmmm:
 
Joannm said:
He did not however, use it as the title of the Mass. He was simply stating that this was the “new” Order of the Mass, as opposed to the “old” Order of the Mass. Using your logic, we should call the Tridentine the “Old Order” (or however one says it in Latin). We should use the official titles Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form. Even to say Latin Mass for the Tridentine (which btw isn’t an official title either), can mean the Ordinary Form since it was promulgated in Latin.
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Similarly, Pope Benedict did not use OF and EF as titles in Summorom Pontificum, or even in the letter that accompanied the motu proprio. They were descriptive phrases.

The expression “the old Order of the Mass” seems reasonably descriptive. I sometimes use the phrase “the Old Mass” to refer to the TLM.
 
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