Novus Ordo Priest Is Fed Up

[FAB]

No, it clearly is caused by by Vatican II and Pope Paul’s measures taken after the Council, which were continued by his successors rather than corrected.

It could not be more clearly cause and effect. It takes denial, explicit, denial to try to say otherwise. Any fair minded evaluation can see it instantly.

The exact reasons for the rebellion, exodus, etc. were the various disciplinary measures and pronouncements of the Pope and the Council, and this testified to by the people who left often enough. If you can’t see that, when a train hits a wall, you’ll deny it was the train’s fault there was a hole in the wall and talk about sedimentary decay.

What is a real shame is the denial, the sheer denial to take responsibility for what happened, and the reasons why. But people make that leap because of a sense of false loyalty.

It’s a cover up and denial of responsibility even more gigantic than the sexual abuse crisis. A great facade of a ‘Springtime’ that never was.

I was listening to an interesting homily about the Moses and the disgruntal Hebrew nation in the desert. Despite the years of suffering from the Egyptions, they wanted to go back. They failed to see that they were better off in the desert with God and Mosses and looked on the days in Egypt as the good old days.
Most of the post and ideas of tradition Catholics on this site remind me of the same thing. They fail to see the problems and issue of the pre VII church, and there were many and then want to say all the problems in the church today were caused by that council.
The Church today does have issues, but to say that all the 200 plus bishops and those who have followed, including popes is to say that the Holy Spirit stopped leading the church 45 years ago.
I believe that is not the case, that is was the Holy Spirit that moved those bishops to make the changes, to better be able to address issues of the age. To believe otherswise is to deny the basic teaching of the church from the time of the first Pentecost.

Peace,
FAB

 

[FAB]

Warning. Read the following from that which apparently does not get read.

Pretty much the entire site is dominated by tradition Catholics, not just this thread. It seems that at this site, all other voices are the ones being shut out.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

See post 163.

Your credibility has been shot, whether you wish to ignore me or not. I hope people who wish to attend Byzantine Rite Masses aren’t offended by your pompous attitude.

Think you need to actually read the posts and replies.

My comment in post 163 was in reply to post 162 where that user used the term N.O. Catholic.

Now whose credibility is shot?

No such thing as a Byzantine Rite Mass.

 

[pnewton]

See post 163.

Your credibility has been shot, whether you wish to ignore me or not. I hope people who wish to attend Byzantine Rite Masses aren’t offended by your pompous attitude.

If you check post 163 again, I think you will see you made a mistake. He use N.O. Catholic, not N. O. Church and he was responding to the inappropriateness of the term when used by another poster. In any case, a single mistake, whether by him, you or me, does not make one lose credibility. We all make mistakes here from time to time, misreading, mistyping and loss of charity. Let us not throw stones if we have not obtained perfection.

 

[surritter]

See post 163.

Pro Vobis, no offense, but what are you smokin’? Here’s the relevant sentence from Br. David’s post:

“I especially like the N.O. Catholic touch.”

That does not say “N.O. Church” and furthermore, the way he used it was in defense of other posters who wish to distinguish the N.O. Catholic Church from the one true Catholic Church.

I hope you will issue a post to retract your rip on Br. David’s credibility.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I was listening to an interesting homily about the Moses and the disgruntal Hebrew nation in the desert. Despite the years of suffering from the Egyptions, they wanted to go back. They failed to see that they were better off in the desert with God and Mosses and looked on the days in Egypt as the good old days.
Most of the post and ideas of tradition Catholics on this site remind me of the same thing. They fail to see the problems and issue of the pre VII church, and there were many and then want to say all the problems in the church today were caused by that council.
The Church today does have issues, but to say that all the 200 plus bishops and those who have followed, including popes is to say that the Holy Spirit stopped leading the church 45 years ago.
I believe that is not the case, that is was the Holy Spirit that moved those bishops to make the changes, to better be able to address issues of the age. To believe otherswise is to deny the basic teaching of the church from the time of the first Pentecost.

Peace,
FAB

I disagree. I have seen way too much in the last 45 years and, yes, I am considerably older than 45 and grew up in HMC before Vatican II and just after. What Vatican II said and what has happened in the last 45 years are two entirely different subjects. More was done “in the spirit of Vatican II” than what Vatican II actually mandated and I think the Holy Spirit is leading our Holy Father to rein in that "spirit of Vatican II and I have prayed constantly for 45 years that we, collectively, would recover our senses.

 

[Lycorth]

I disagree. I have seen way too much in the last 45 years and, yes, I am considerably older than 45 and grew up in HMC before Vatican II and just after. What Vatican II said and what has happened in the last 45 years are two entirely different subjects. More was done “in the spirit of Vatican II” than what Vatican II actually mandated and I think the Holy Spirit is leading our Holy Father to rein in that "spirit of Vatican II and I have prayed constantly for 45 years that we, collectively, would recover our senses.

Exactly. How anyone could draw a comparison between the Israelites of Moses’ time yearning for the “good old days” of Egyptian slavery and traditional Catholics yearning for the (actual) good old days of pre-VII Catholicism is beyond me. Seems more like grasping for straws than an actual analogy.

It’s like saying were in a sort of slavery with the pre-VII traditions!

If anything, this desire to eschew time-tested traditions in favor of comfortable novelties despite how bad they’ve been for the worldwide Church is more like the Israelite yearning to go back to comfortable slavery, despite how bad it was for them.

 

[pnewton]

Pro Vobis, no offense, but what are you smokin’? Here’s the relevant sentence from Br. David’s post:

Can we just have peace on this. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[surritter]

OK – I apologize

 

[FAB]

Exactly. How anyone could draw a comparison between the Israelites of Moses’ time yearning for the “good old days” of Egyptian slavery and traditional Catholics yearning for the (actual) good old days of pre-VII Catholicism is beyond me. Seems more like grasping for straws than an actual analogy.

It’s like saying were in a sort of slavery with the pre-VII traditions!

If anything, this desire to eschew time-tested traditions in favor of comfortable novelties despite how bad they’ve been for the worldwide Church is more like the Israelite yearning to go back to comfortable slavery, despite how bad it was for them.

There were practices in the Church that were very draconian. For instance, not allowing a child of a divorced Catholic to be a server at mass. Not allowing a Catholic to attend a non- catholic wedding. The restriction of women to be able to even enter the sanctuary. These are just a few, they were not time tested traditions, many were oppressive.
The Church didn’t allow the faithful to think for themselves, it had many rules that you followed or you were not considered a good Catholic, this takes away freedom and is a form of slavery. By the way, that was not what I was infering in the original post, but it does fit.

Peace,
FAB

 

[JustaServant]

Pretty much the entire site is dominated by tradition Catholics, not just this thread. It seems that at this site, all other voices are the ones being shut out.

Never a good idea to argue with the moderator…

 

[surritter]

Warning. Read the following from that which apparently does not get read:

This is the Traditional Catholicism forum. It is intended for the discussion of traditional Catholicism not the practices of the Church today. It is intended for traditional Catholics.

Actually, that makes me wonder about all of this – since the very title of this thread is “Novus Ordo Priest Is Fed Up,” isn’t that and every post discussing the pros and cons “of the Church today”? I’m not arguing with the moderator, but if the rules are as they say, then we should not be discussing anything post-Vatican II, correct?

 

[ibkc]

Actually, that makes me wonder about all of this – since the very title of this thread is “Novus Ordo Priest Is Fed Up,” isn’t that and every post discussing the pros and cons “of the Church today”? I’m not arguing with the moderator, but if the rules are as they say, then we should not be discussing anything post-Vatican II, correct?

It was clarified what is meant here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6172885&postcount=9

Traditional Catholicism relates to those practices/beliefs/liturgies, etc. that apply to the Latin Rite Catholic Church as it existed before the First Sunday of Advent in 1969 and as such survives today.

 

[surritter]

It was clarified what is meant here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6172885&postcount=9

Traditional Catholicism relates to those practices/beliefs/liturgies, etc. that apply to the Latin Rite Catholic Church as it existed before the First Sunday of Advent in 1969 and as such survives today.

Exactly. So the entire thread is in violation of the rules since we are discussing the so-called “evils” of the Ordinary Form, which began in 1969. I’ll bow out now…

 

[Patrick_Eastin]

Exactly. So the entire thread is in violation of the rules since we are discussing the so-called “evils” of the Ordinary Form, which began in 1969. I’ll bow out now…

I am not going to clarify my actions any further. The traditional Catholic forum is there for traditional Catholics to express their opinions. No one has posted anything about the “evils” of the Ordinary Form This post questions moderator judgement.

If you cannot post charitably and civilly…if you cannot understand that there are people on this forum who grew up before 1969 and who may, just may, have a different opinion than you…Don’t post. This includes all our non-traditional Roman Catholics; all of our brethren who are of different rites; and any posters who are not Roman Catholic!

If you disagree with my moderation, pm me or complain to CAF at forumadmin@catholic.com.