L
LatinCatholic1
Guest
The OF of the Roman Rite looks the exact same as the Evangelical Lutheran Service. What is the similarities and the differences between the two? Which came first?
God Bless
God Bless
- Status
A
Andre1000
Guest
Lol. A very old Lutheran Service looks almost like the EF.
P
pnewton
Guest
The current missal came out in 1970. The Lutheran do not have Mass. Both use Scripture and music, though. I do not see any real comparison.
If you wish to pursue Lutheranism, that would be better done in the Non-Catholic section, I would think. This particular section of Liturgy is specifically for Catholic liturgy.
If you wish to pursue Lutheranism, that would be better done in the Non-Catholic section, I would think. This particular section of Liturgy is specifically for Catholic liturgy.
K
Kevin812
Guest
C
curlycool89
Guest
And if a “newer” Lutheran service looks like the OF it’s probably because they copied it too.
B
ByzCathCantor
Guest
Respectfully, this began with a very definitive statement, asserting clear similarities (in fact, equating both forms). Then, a request for an analysis of similarities and differences. Perhaps you could kindly share your own view first. Specific commentary of the Liturgy of the Eucharist would be most relevant.
T
ThatOneGuy92
Guest
As I am was raised Lutheran (and currently still am), perhaps I can help shed some light on this matter.
The reason that the Divine Service of the Lutheran Church is similar to the Ordinary Form of the Mass is simply because there is not much difference. And, there never has been. The Lutheran Reformation was a conservative one; if one investigates closely, Lutherans retained much of the order of the Mass. Thus, it should not be a surprise that there is similarity.
Yes, certain things were removed, the most notable being the Canon of the Mass. And yes, Lutheran liturgical theology is different in many respects than Catholicism’s. However, if one looks at the rubrics throughout the years, there have always been similarities.
It should also be noted that many liturgical (and non-liturgical) churches reformed there service orders during the same time that Catholics were.
Hope this helps.
The reason that the Divine Service of the Lutheran Church is similar to the Ordinary Form of the Mass is simply because there is not much difference. And, there never has been. The Lutheran Reformation was a conservative one; if one investigates closely, Lutherans retained much of the order of the Mass. Thus, it should not be a surprise that there is similarity.
Yes, certain things were removed, the most notable being the Canon of the Mass. And yes, Lutheran liturgical theology is different in many respects than Catholicism’s. However, if one looks at the rubrics throughout the years, there have always been similarities.
It should also be noted that many liturgical (and non-liturgical) churches reformed there service orders during the same time that Catholics were.
Hope this helps.
S
Swiss_Guy
Guest
Er, not really. Perhaps it was an LCMS church? Evangelical Lutherans (throughout the world, not just in US) have kinda taken a turn for the worst in all areas.
T
TheDoctor
Guest
As I have never been to an evangelical lutheran service, can you please link to a copy of their “missal” so we can see what their service is like?
A
agnes_therese
Guest
The exact same? Really?
They have real consecration; and valid Eucharist; the same readings; the same collects,prayer after communion, and closing prayers; the same Eucharistic prayers; the same penitential acts; the same “Gloria” and “Holy, Holy, Holy;” the same Mysteries of Faith; the same liturgical calendar . . . ???
Are you sure it’s the exact same as Holy Mass?
T
ThatOneGuy92
Guest
With some variations (depending upon parish, jurisdiction, and setting), this gives a good overview of the Divine Service as is known amongst most Lutherans:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Service_(Lutheran)#cite_note-3
T
ThatOneGuy92
Guest
I’m pretty sure they’re referring the the rubrics.
L
LatinCatholic1
Guest
Woah stop right there! Notice I said they " look the exact same ", I never said they are the exact same
T
TheDoctor
Guest
Thanks, that was very helpful.
T
ThatOneGuy92
Guest
You’re welcome
P
ProVobis
Guest
Since Martin Luther was a Catholic priest, it’s very likely the first Lutheran service was like the pre-Tridentine Mass. And it was also valid, by the way.
T
ThatOneGuy92
Guest
But not legit. It was not too legit to quit.
M
malphono
Guest
It seems to me the OP concerns the order of service. While we know that there are theological differences, the actual order of service is pretty much the same, at least these days. (I haven’t been able to find a comparison of the pre- and post-1970 Lutheran services so I really cannot say what the differences between then-and now are, or who-borrowed-from-whom. But it’s interesting that the photos I’ve seen all invariably show a versus populum table now, and I know that was not the case in the “old” version of the Lutheran service (at least not among the “High Church” factions). )
T
TimothyH
Guest
The thread is bait, to try to get Catholics to believe that, or at least argue about, the Ordinary Form of the Mass being a Protestant corruption of the Tridentine Mass.
-Tim-
-Tim-
M
malphono
Guest
Whether it was actually “valid” depends, of course, on the intent of the priest (and at the very beginning it was a priest). The question then becomes, did Luther intend intend to do what the Church (and I don’t mean his spin-off group) intended? It’s an interesting question that can probably never be answered.
- Status