Novus Ordo vs Lutheran Service

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agnes_therese said:
The exact same? Really?
They have real consecration; and valid Eucharist; the same readings; the same collects,prayer after communion, and closing prayers; the same Eucharistic prayers; the same penitential acts; the same “Gloria” and “Holy, Holy, Holy;” the same Mysteries of Faith; the same liturgical calendar . . . ???

Are you sure it’s the exact same as Holy Mass?
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Actually, the answer to your question(s) in terms of the wording and rubrics is that many of the western Christian denominations have a generally indistinguishable Eucharistic Rite from the Catholic one, certainly in terms of the shape of the liturgy and much of the wording. In many cases the same Lectionary, and - before the new translation - the same mass settings were used (the Anglican and Lutheran congregational mass settings actually sound more traditional.)

This doesn’t mean of course that as Catholics we regard the Eucharist as valid, but that wasn’t the question that was asked.
 
malphono said:
It seems to me the OP concerns the order of service. While we know that there are theological differences, the actual order of service is pretty much the same, at least these days. (I haven’t been able to find a comparison of the pre- and post-1970 Lutheran services so I really cannot say what the differences between then-and now are, or who-borrowed-from-whom. But it’s interesting that the photos I’ve seen all invariably show a versus populum table now, and I know that was not the case in the “old” version of the Lutheran service (at least not among the “High Church” factions). )
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Luther was an Augustinian monk. Augustinian monks used a central freestanding altar, as have the Benedictines and Cistercians for many centuries. As far back as 1600 years, monastic communities have gathered around a free standing altar as an enclosed community.

An Abbey Church with such an altar consecrated in 1057 is pictured here.

Luther brought his Augustinian practices into the Lutheran Church, including the use of a freestanding altar and liturgy where the community which gathered around the altar.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Luther was an Augustinian monk. Augustinian monks used a central freestanding altar, as have the Benedictines and Cistercians for many centuries. As far back as 1600 years, monastic communities have gathered around a free standing altar as an enclosed community.

An Abbey Church with such an altar consecrated in 1057 is pictured here.

Luther brought his Augustinian practices into the Lutheran Church, including the use of a freestanding altar and liturgy where the community which gathered around the altar.

-Tim-
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Yes :yawn: I know. But one has always to keep in mind that a freestanding altar is NOT the same as a versus populum table.
 
malphono said:
(I haven’t been able to find a comparison of the pre- and post-1970 Lutheran services so I really cannot say what the differences between then-and now are, or who-borrowed-from-whom. But it’s interesting that the photos I’ve seen all invariably show a versus populum table now, and I know that was not the case in the “old” version of the Lutheran service (at least not among the “High Church” factions). )
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Ask, and ye shall receive 🙂
history.hanover.edu/texts/luthserv.html
 
The Catholic eucharistic prayers make the presence of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass apparent, whereas the Lutheran service books speak very generally of an offering (even using the word sacrifice once or twice), but certainly never the theology that the offering of the bread and wine of the euacharist is the ONE AND SAME Sacrfice as that of Calvary.
 
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