Now I think I've heard everything RE: Confession!

[samovila]

My mother-in-law told us that she went to a group confession on Saturday at a Catholic church in New Brunswick, Canada. Instead of individually confessing to the priest, they had everyone write down their sins and put them in a box at the front of the church. The priest said some prayers over the box, burnt the contents and gave a group absolution. They said they were trying to make it easier for people to return to the Church who were uncomfortable with confessing their sins. I asked her if the priest reads the sins and she said, no, he just burns them. How on earth could this be a valid sacrament of reconciliation?!

 

[AlanF]

My mother-in-law told us that she went to a group confession on Saturday at a Catholic church in New Brunswick, Canada. Instead of individually confessing to the priest, they had everyone write down their sins and put them in a box at the front of the church. The priest said some prayers over the box, burnt the contents and gave a group absolution. They said they were trying to make it easier for people to return to the Church who were uncomfortable with confessing their sins. I asked her if the priest reads the sins and she said, no, he just burns them. How on earth could this be a valid sacrament of reconciliation?!

hmmm
This sounds very… pagan, to me.

And I’m no expert but I’m quite sure this cannot be a valid confession.

 

[mercygate]

It is not valid. It is a grave abuse and should be confirmed (in writing) with the pastor and, if it really happened , it should be reported to the Bishop. Don’t expect to get an answer, however.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The New Brunswick priest is out of touch with human nature & with the power of mercy as an attracting and retaining principle in our relationship with God. He is not encouraging a return so much as a sanctioned continuance of lurking in the shadows. There is no substitute for the encounter with Truth, who is Christ himself. And that truth becomes actualized in the personal oral acknowledgement of sin, by which the individual makes himself accountable, experiences mercy, and re-engages in an ongoing relationship with God. Sacraments (not pretend ones) are the very avenues to return.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Don’t expect to get an answer, however.

Is this standard? That Bishops do not reply to the complainant directly?

 

[lizaanne]

I’ve been to one of these before. I believe this is ok for the absolution of venial sins (but then again, so is the general absolution at every single Mass), but is absolutely NOT a substitute for confession of mortal sins - you MUST confess with your mouth to the priest for this.

As far as burning the paper - when I went to one of these types of services at a Jesuit retreat house, it was called a healing service, and the priests also anointed everyone with oil and prayed over us. The burning of the paper was part of it. I have to say that it was a very cathartic experience to see my sins go up in smoke…that being said… I felt totally cheated when I learned later that the mortal sins I had confessed in this way were never absolved.

Better to just do it the right way and not mess around with “get out of sin quick” schemes.

~Liza

 

[mercygate]

Is this standard? That Bishops do not reply to the complainant directly?

Dear Mr Complainant:

We have received your report of a possible abuse of the Sacrament of Penance and appreciate your concern.

I have referred the matter to the Worship Office for inquiry. Be assured that the Diocese is committed to ensuring that the Sacraments are worthily celebrated in this Diocese.

Faithfully,

Bishop

 

[lizaanne]

Dear Mr Complainant:

We have received your report of a possible abuse of the Sacrament of Penance and appreciate your concern.

I have referred the matter to the Worship Office for inquiry. Be assured that the Diocese is committed to ensuring that the Sacraments are worthily celebrated in this Diocese.

Faithfully,

Bishop

Translation:

We are blowing you off because we really don’t care what you think.

Thank you very much, have a nice day.

~Liza

 

[JDHallKY]

I have to say that it was a very cathartic experience to see my sins go up in smoke

At the Advent penance service at my parish, our new pastor incorporated the burning of our lists into the service. It was a legitimate penance service, with individual confessions heard by multiple priests, but as each person finished confessing, they went to the front of the church and burned their piece of paper. I thought the symbolism of that was very powerful. Waiting in line and watching others do that really made me excited about making a good confession.

 

[Brenda_V]

My mother-in-law told us that she went to a group confession on Saturday at a Catholic church in New Brunswick, Canada. Instead of individually confessing to the priest, they had everyone write down their sins and put them in a box at the front of the church. The priest said some prayers over the box, burnt the contents and gave a group absolution. They said they were trying to make it easier for people to return to the Church who were uncomfortable with confessing their sins. I asked her if the priest reads the sins and she said, no, he just burns them. How on earth could this be a valid sacrament of reconciliation?!

Sounds like the way things were being done in the Parishes I lived in when I was a teen and young adult about 30 years ago!

Sheesh, these horrible ideas never die down do they?

Brenda V.

 

[lizaanne]

At the Advent penance service at my parish, our new pastor incorporated the burning of our lists into the service. It was a legitimate penance service, with individual confessions heard by multiple priests, but as each person finished confessing, they went to the front of the church and burned their piece of paper. I thought **the symbolism of that was very powerful. **Waiting in line and watching others do that really made me excited about making a good confession.

This is the problem - it is only symbolic. But some parishes continue this practice without explaining that it is ONLY symbolic, and that NO absolution occurs by burning paper. It can be very confusing for people if not done VERY carefully and explained well.

Personally, I don’t think these sorts of symbolic gestures, regardless of how cathartic or powerful, should be allowed.

We have the holy sacrament of Confession. We really don’t need all these bells and whistles. It’s just more of the “warm and fuzzy” crowd from the '60s trying to make Mass and the sacraments into something they simply do not need to be.

~Liza

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My mother-in-law told us that she went to a group confession on Saturday at a Catholic church in New Brunswick, Canada. Instead of individually confessing to the priest, they had everyone write down their sins and put them in a box at the front of the church. The priest said some prayers over the box, burnt the contents and gave a group absolution. They said they were trying to make it easier for people to return to the Church who were uncomfortable with confessing their sins. I asked her if the priest reads the sins and she said, no, he just burns them. How on earth could this be a valid sacrament of reconciliation?!

It’s not a valid Sacrament of Confession. It may be a valid Absolution, but would require at trip to the Sacrament of Confession as soon as the person is able.

 

[juliasmith]

I’ve been to one of these before. I believe this is ok for the absolution of venial sins (but then again, so is the general absolution at every single Mass), but is absolutely NOT a substitute for confession of mortal sins - you MUST confess with your mouth to the priest for this.

As far as burning the paper - when I went to one of these types of services at a Jesuit retreat house, it was called a healing service, and the priests also anointed everyone with oil and prayed over us. The burning of the paper was part of it. I have to say that it was a very cathartic experience to see my sins go up in smoke…that being said… I felt totally cheated when I learned later that the mortal sins I had confessed in this way were never absolved.

Better to just do it the right way and not mess around with “get out of sin quick” schemes.

~Liza

It is very Wiccan, I assure you. Used to do it once a month during Dark Moon Rites with all my little pagan friends.
It most certainly is not valid for confession. It should definitely be reported to the Bishop. If no response is given it should be reported right on up the chain until a response is given. And I would not darken the doors of that priest’s church again until he is replaced or educated about that particular practice. It may very well have been done out of pure ignorance, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[JDHallKY]

This is the problem - it is only symbolic. But some parishes continue this practice without explaining that it is ONLY symbolic, and that NO absolution occurs by burning paper. It can be very confusing for people if not done VERY carefully and explained well.

Personally, I don’t think these sorts of symbolic gestures, regardless of how cathartic or powerful, should be allowed.

We have the holy sacrament of Confession. We really don’t need all these bells and whistles. It’s just more of the “warm and fuzzy” crowd from the '60s trying to make Mass and the sacraments into something they simply do not need to be.

~Liza

The pastor did explain it was to symbolize the fact that our sins are completely gone after we receive sacramental absolution. There is a great deal of value in symbols if they are used properly. Heck, sacramentals like holy water are symbols which are empowered with the prayer of the Church. All of these things are of course open to abuse, but if done right and explained properly, there’s nothing wrong with them.

 

[Aramis]

It is not valid. It is a grave abuse and should be confirmed (in writing) with the pastor and, if it really happened , it should be reported to the Bishop. Don’t expect to get an answer, however.

Actually, if the priest was validly ordained, it is valid.

It’s illicit… VERY ILLICIT… but general absolution is valid.

 

[benedictgal]

I’ve been to one of these before. I believe this is ok for the absolution of venial sins (but then again, so is the general absolution at every single Mass), but is absolutely NOT a substitute for confession of mortal sins - you MUST confess with your mouth to the priest for this.

As far as burning the paper - when I went to one of these types of services at a Jesuit retreat house, it was called a healing service, and the priests also anointed everyone with oil and prayed over us. The burning of the paper was part of it. I have to say that it was a very cathartic experience to see my sins go up in smoke…that being said… I felt totally cheated when I learned later that the mortal sins I had confessed in this way were never absolved.

Better to just do it the right way and not mess around with “get out of sin quick” schemes.

~Liza

Actually, what you described in your first sentence is not licit at all. It’s not ever okay even for venial sins, let alone mortal sins. You are right in that personal confession to a priest is required.

What the OP described sounds similar to a practice (at least in principle) that the Australians were using until the entire episcopal conference was called out by the Servant of God, John Paul II, to stop it immediately. Inasmuch as the practice centered on the wholesale granting of general absolution, the document that was issued as a result of this situation, the Circular Letter on the Integrity of the Sacrament of Penance, notes that:

1. The Holy Father has pointed to the personal nature of sin, conversion, forgiveness and reconciliation 17 as the reason why the Rite of Reconciliation of several penitents with individual confession and absolution “demands the personal confession of sins and individual absolution”.18 Since individual and integral confession of sins is not only an obligation "but also an inviolable and inalienable right"19 of the faithful, any innovation which would interfere with their fulfillment of this obligation, such as when penitents are invited or otherwise encouraged to name just one sin or to name a representative sin, is to be eliminated.

1. As an aid to a more fruitful reception of the Sacrament of Penance and in the hope of fostering the spirit and virtue of penance among the faithful, the Rite of Penance includes material for “Penitential celebrations”, which are described as gatherings of the people of God to hear the proclamation of God’s word.20 “Care should be taken that the faithful do not confuse these celebrations with the celebration of the Sacrament of Penance”,21 in particular, by making clear to them that such celebrations are preparatory in nature and do not include the sacramental forgiveness of sins. It is to be borne in mind that such penitential celebrations may not make use of the sacramental formula of absolution, nor should they employ the concluding formula from the Penitential Rite at Mass, nor any other formula which could be misconstrued to be an absolution from sin.

Our diocesan Cursillo Center was going to do just what you described in the OP; I protested and told the spiritual director that this was not licit. He said that they had been doing this for quite some time. He didn’t back down. I spoke to a member of the Prebyteral Council and he mentioned it to the Bishop and showed him the Circular Letter. It took one phone call from the bishop and the thing was cancelled. The spiritual director won’t talk to me, but, I couldn’t, in good conscience, leave the matter alone,
especially when it involved the integrity of the sacrament.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Actually, if the priest was validly ordained, it is valid.

It’s illicit… VERY ILLICIT… but general absolution is valid.

But it does require individual Confession by each person as soon as it is available to them.

 

[BSHoop96]

My mother-in-law told us that she went to a group confession on Saturday at a Catholic church in New Brunswick, Canada. Instead of individually confessing to the priest, they had everyone write down their sins and put them in a box at the front of the church. The priest said some prayers over the box, burnt the contents and gave a group absolution. They said they were trying to make it easier for people to return to the Church who were uncomfortable with confessing their sins. I asked her if the priest reads the sins and she said, no, he just burns them. How on earth could this be a valid sacrament of reconciliation?!

This is the second really weird thing I have read happening in Pennsylvania this week…and I always thought of Pennsylvania as being so traditional. …

 

[BSHoop96]

Actually, what you described in your first sentence is not licit at all. It’s not ever okay even for venial sins, let alone mortal sins. You are right in that personal confession to a priest is required.

What the OP described sounds similar to a practice (at least in principle) that the Australians were using until the entire episcopal conference was called out by the Servant of God, John Paul II, to stop it immediately. Inasmuch as the practice centered on the wholesale granting of general absolution, the document that was issued as a result of this situation, the Circular Letter on the Integrity of the Sacrament of Penance, notes that:

Our diocesan Cursillo Center was going to do just what you described in the OP; I protested and told the spiritual director that this was not licit. He said that they had been doing this for quite some time. He didn’t back down. I spoke to a member of the Prebyteral Council and he mentioned it to the Bishop and showed him the Circular Letter. It took one phone call from the bishop and the thing was cancelled. **The spiritual director won’t talk to me, **but, I couldn’t, in good conscience, leave the matter alone,
especially when it involved the integrity of the sacrament.

Good for you! And the spiritual director can get glad in the same pants he/she got mad in.

 

[Phemie]

This is the second really weird thing I have read happening in Pennsylvania this week…and I always thought of Pennsylvania as being so traditional. …

It didn’t happen in Pennsylvania but in New Brunswick, Canada. I’d love to know in what diocese. It does sound like some of the ideas I’ve heard bounced around when I was on the liturgy committee of my parish and we had general absolution each Advent and Lent.

After my diocese, and indeed most dioceses in Canada, stopped having routine general absolution about 6 years ago I had a priest in NB say to me that, as far as he was concerned, anyone who showed up for a Reconciliation Service was showing repentance and deserved to not have obstacles put in his path, obstacles like oral confession. Half of his diocese (based on language) was still using G.A. “until a question we’ve asked is answered”.