Now You Can Be Sued For Being Catholic

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Here’s some background on the reaction of some of the public when Proposition 8 was passed.

A FOX News report on what happened to grandmother Phyllis Burgess in the short-lived aftermath .

Here is a video snippet recommended by Phyllis Burgess herself as the most accurate depiction of what happened that day. Unfortunately, footage of this incident appears to becoming more and more rare. The KPSP Local 2 Clip lined up below the first one, is no longer available on Youtube . I can’t advocate these sites at this point (don’t know enough about them yet). My sole interest here is to provide video footage which is still available.

If you have time, have a careful listen to the FOX video … will be coming back to it to point out several things.

According to the Catholic Family & Human Rights Institute , the UN could well have a hand in the campaign for “Homosexual Adoption in Mexico” .
 
Time for a buzzword review :

Words are the weapons. And the gay militant and gay tyrannical elements have chosen their weapons well. Whatever may have previously been lacking in acceptance or integration of gays has now been so overcompensated for , it surpasses the absurd . Not unlike a worker’s union, it’s nature is to keep on taking while it gains more power. Without the truth as an objective reference point, the danger is that it will continue taking to an inordinate point.

Some unions have actually bankrupted companies and put the very workers they are supposed to have been representing, right out of work. This happened because they didn’t have the good sense to stop when they had obtained something just and fair . In a like manner, the militant onslaught against the institution of marriage and the imposition of the warped notion of same-sex adoption upon society are beyond sensible ; and will eventually have a draining effect on our moral reserves which are already so heavily taxed by abortion, contraception and divorce.

… Back to those buzzwords

Discrimination : It is a word which is not actually spoken by protagonists for gay (ahem ) ‘marriage’ and gay adoption as much as it is wielded. Who can count the times we’ve heard or read about heterosexuals being accused of being discriminatory … ?

Homophobia : It really amazes me that society doesn’t employ common use of the word heterophobia yet . Heterophobia certainly exists , and if anyone thought that gay tyranny was just an expression , that video clip of what happened to Phyllis Burgess suggests they need to do a serious re-think.

Opposite sex as opposed to heterosexual couples: We’re seeing the use of this term more and more as opposed to heterosexual couples and/or “a man and a woman”. I wonder why we shouldn’t consider it normal to think of a couple as a “man and a woman” ?

Heterosexism: This word has intent written all over one side of it (and paranoia all over the other). It’s meant to keep well -meaning heterosexuals off balance and on the defensive.

Okay get ready… this is the newest word : Heteronormativity .
Never mind heteros being off balance, with this new word, now we’re not even allowed to get up off the floor. Listen up everybody: If you’re a heterosexual, you’d better hide it well , or you just could end up being accused of participating or being a co-conspirator in the heteronaormativism movement.:dts:

It’s in every Catholic’s best interest to know that this word came from the UN and it would be wise for all of us to keep an eye on it.

It appeared in this October 30th, 2010 article entitled Countries Slam Attempts to Create New “Right” to Sexual Education at UN

… Better have a read, and please be sure to click on the link provided in the article entitled “UNESCO guidelines” . The UNESCO guidelines are so perverted and twisted that I decided not to post the direct link. But please read them.It doesn’t take long and we need to be informed. One needs to understand what is happening on the large scale / in the big picture. While the agenda is being pushed in the courts, they’re also going after families to try and plant their seeds in the minds of children; beginning at the age when they are still, primarily, unpretentious and most impressionable.

“Marriage” is that word - that weapon which the protagonists need to conquer. It isn’t about rights. Gay adoption, would never be an issue without gay (ahem) “marriage” ; if some myopic judges had had the sense/wisdom/courage to simply say what bishop Romero has been saying all along : That **same-sex unions are not marriage and that they will never be marriage. **

Okay, ready for another word…?

Nefarious . This is the proper term for that UN proposal as it relates to the UNESCO guidelines cited. And Victor Munoz and anyone else who had a hand in concocting that crud should get themselves into counseling as soon as possible.
 
To investigate examples in one critcal area where the promotion of gay rights surpasses the reasonable and the absurd , consider the subject of blood donation.(* Unless otherwise specified, all quotes are taken from the first two linked articles).

Catholic Insight reported in July 2010 that “Canada, the United States, France and Germany presently maintain a lifetime blood donation ban for men who have had sex with other men.”

In 2009, the Australian Federation of AIDS organizations reported the Australian Red Cross Blood Services maintains its “policy of not accepting blood donations from men who have had sex with men in the previous 12 months.”

Statistics - based research say national blood banks were previously tainted with the AIDS virus and for hemopheliacs and infants , a lot of the time the consequences were fatal:

"For a time, Australia had the highest proportion of HIV cases acquired through blood transfusion of any western country. Some 30 percent of people with haemophilia who received blood products between 1980 and 1984 acquired HIV – most died…

…And in November 1984 when the Queensland health minister announced that three babies had died after receiving blood donated by a gay man, fears about gay men and AIDS went into overdrive."

There is some truth then, to the collateral fallout of a stigma being attached to those who engage in an actively gay lifestyle. But factors are factors. The collateral damage doesn’t change the factors.

Subsequently, with such disatrous results right in our faces, due to the exceedingly high risk factor of transmission among “men who have sex with men” (as they prefer to be called), even countries who are so wide open to gay rights that it amounts to reverse discrimination and the suppression of freedom of religion and of speech,continue to draw the line when it comes to blood donations.

Now, consider : " In Canada, Canadian Blood Services is suing Kyle Freeman, a sexually active gay man, who lied about his sexual history in order to donate blood a number of times. Mr. Freeman is being supported by the gay community in Canada and portrayed as a loving, compassionate man who wants only to do good things. Mr. Freeman is counter-suing, saying that the policy discriminates against homosexuals."

Then , similarly, “A long-running discrimination complaint against the Australian Red Cross Blood Service (ARCBS) by Tasmanian gay man Michael Cain was dismissed in May 2009. In 2004 Michael Cain’s blood was refused by the ARCBS in Launceston after he answered ‘yes’ to a screening question about gay sex.”

One part that appeared particularly disturbing was, "In comments that sound remarkably similar to those made by Michael Cain twenty five years later, Craig Johnston wrote in the gay magazine Campaign:

‘When blood collection agencies announce that they don’t want any gay donors because of the appearance of AIDS in some gay men,
I interpret that announcement as ‘all gay blood is bad blood’ … That offends my dignity."

And what of the “dignity” and “feelings” of those innocent victims who received a death sentence ?

One notices again, if one thoroughly reads the articles, that the gay activists resort once more to the cry of "discrimination"… that ever re-emerging pattern ; unreasonable as it is, to the point where they’re insisting that their “rights” should abrogate individual and community health concerns ; that, in one sense, some should be given a license to deal a death sentence …🤷 How can one make any sense out of that at all ? It would probably never have gotten to this point if some of the human rights tribunal judges had maintained a little more intestinal fortitude and tried to avoid taking a position more geared towards Pontius Pilatesque job security.

They should at least acknowledge, as both linked articles do , the contributory cause of blood screening for HIV not being totally reliable .

Even with community health as the priority, one needs to feel a little sorry for the gay activists who would advocate what is being advocated in these two cases. If one peers below the surface, one discovers that this is a form of denial. And even more unfortunately, the repetetive crying over and over of “discrimination” is a learned behaviour . The activists actually see this as their way of belonging in society. Some of these poor guys aren’t even being allowed to think for themselves.

To Michael Cain’s comment . ‘It almost felt like I was being accused of being a dirty person’ , I might recommend he read an article by Dr. John R. Diggs Jr., M.D.

** I would forewarn any member here at CAF who would like to read the article, that although the article is written by an M.D., and is presented at the Catholic Education Resource Center website , it is graphic with a capital “G”. However, if one can read it through and survive , the article proves most adept in eliciting and augmenting sincere compassion for our gay brothers and sisters.
 
The gay activists’ /tyrannists’ push for more and more thought control over their fellow members of modern society is , in some respects , a lamentable (albeit remarkable) beast. As long as it continues to wield the word “discrimination” at the forefront of its assault , resistance crumbles before it. The truth, when inconvenient, is simply discarded . But as witnessed in the “UNESCO guidelines to a Right to Sexual Education” two posts previously, what the discarded truth is replaced with, can be hideous … downright nefarious.

We’ve already witnessed how this particular beast has, in terms of practicality, brought out the spinal inadequacies of certain judges in superior courts and supreme courts ; whisper the word, “discrimination”… and they flee !

Similarly, the Oxford dictionary and Webster’s Dictionary may have inadvertently redefined the word “dictionary” as an oxymoron through their altering of the definition of marriage to include (ahem) : “a union between partners of the same sex; a civil partnership” , and “the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage."

They would appear to think words somehow belong to them. -:dts:
Usually, we consult dictionaries to find out what words really mean – don’t we ?

While we’re on that subject, society may tell us they/we have succeeded in redefining “marriage”,but it is nothing more than lip service. One cannot change nature, although with prayer and fasting, one can actually intercede so that God might suspend the laws of nature for a particular purpose, according to His Mercy. I wonder if, what is happening to marriage, suggests we should use the more accurate term – “alter” – as opposed to redefinition. “Alter” does seem the more fitting term for defining what society’s efforts, spearheaded by the agenda of gay activists/tyrannists would have us believe they’re doing to the institution of marriage :

My pre-alteration hard copy of the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines “alter” as : Change in character, position.
My pre-alteration hard copy of Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary gives the primary definition of “alter” as, 1 :* to make different without changing into something else.*

“Character” in the Oxford concise is described as 1:" distinctive mark…2 :…mental or moral nature…"

Interestingly enough, it is actually Webster’s Ninth’s *second definition *of “alter” which provides a spiritual metaphor for exactly what this gay (ahem) marriage agenda does to the true institution of marriage –

Alter 2 : CASTRATE, SPAY ~ vi: *to become different *

…Just to clarify, that said to “become different” - not “make the same”
... (I’m not entirely sure now as to whether it may be said the correct definition of this spiritual metaphor would be purely: “*coincidental*” -:) )
 
I think we can safely assume that the holidays are over for the gay tyrannists and lobbyists now.

Remember Australian Cardinal George Pell from the first post in the thread…?.. The one who is telling us loud and clear that Human Rights Tribunals + Gay Tyranny + spineless judges and politicians is ultimately forging a society where :

"…religious freedom is not a human right and may not be compatible with human rights." …?

Well now the Gay Tyrrany/Lobbyist group AME (Australian Marriage Equality) is demanding to meet with Cardinal Pell… on the offensive again. This time because of a letter encouraging parishoners to lobby MP’s to vote against (what they claim to be, ‘ahem’) gay “marriage”.

The shortened story can be found at this link . Bear in mind that mainstream media tend towards an inordinate lean in favour of the gay (ahem) ‘marriage’ cause… otherwise… they’re labeled as anti-gay and discriminatory and they’re already seen as ‘prejudiced’ even before the labelling paint has dried.

The church in Australia is now accused of a “destructive” campaign…you know - the usual heterophobic anti-Catholic Church rhetoric, but we need to have a look at a more subtle device :

AME’s official statement ended on this note:

“The church is free to lobby against equality, but attempting to enlist ordinary Catholics in its campaign will backfire because many support marriage equality.”

Instead of “discrimination” , they use the word “equality” for a little twist. Those two words are actually interdependent. The Church is painted as campaigning against equality.

Now I don’t know why and am not even quite sure how it happened; call it what you want, inspiration driven by frustration coupled with something I heard Fr. John Corapi say in one of his videos, but I ended up posting a comment on the story at *Adelaidenow *which I kind of wish the good Cardinal could read for himself. As I said, the root seems to be based in something I remember Father Corapi saying about man and woman. He’d said they are absolutely equal in dignity , but different in function and that some of the differences run soul deep.

Slippery tongues and crafty language tend to hold us hostage in these discussions. So the next time someone pulls out the twisted dictionary of gay tyrannical tactics and tries to tell you that if you disagree with the gay lifestyle and subsequently gay (ahem) ‘marriage’, then you are against *equality *and are therefore prejudiced and homophobic… well, …this is what I answered:

Equality in God’s eyes is this :

Man and woman are absolutely equal in dignity, but different in function. If you adhere to the gay lifestyle, you are still absolutely equal in dignity, but you’ve gone and altered the function
.

That’s the truth, plain and simple - point blank !

We need to remember to pray for our gay brothers and sisters, but at the same time never allowing the truth to become a casualty.
 
Time to review the footage from the FOX news report (sorry- now we have to suffer through an ad before the video will play).

This time, for a change from watching the physical aggression of the gay tyranists,how about we only notice what is written on their signs “equality for all” and instead, let’s focus on the dialogue - on the actual speech used , in particular by the newscaster, and by the President of the Institute for Marriage and Public Policy, Maggie Gallagher.

They speak of the “ban” on gay marriage. My pre-moral relativism Concise Oxford Dictionary offers a working definition for “ban” in this sense :prohibition by public opinion .

That sounds like the proper wording for it, in light of Prop 8 , doesn’t it ? … or ,:hmmm:, What about the rest of the words in the sentence ?

Within the first 2 minutes of the video, the newscaster has mentioned “gay marriage” and the “ban on gay marriage” at least 3 times :
(remember what was posted previously about the protagonists goal of hijacking the word “marriage”.)

Newscaster’s words:

0:08 – “…supporters of same sex marriage, which of course Californians just voted to ban”
0:15 - “…a grandmother who supports the ban on gay marriage”
1:16 – “So your group supports Prop 8 the ban on gay marriage”
3:07 -" Everybody who supports gay marriage"

Maggie Gallagher, President of the Institute for Marriage and Public Policy’s words:

3:47 “who support marriage as one man and one woman
4:07 “and treat people who think **marriage means a man and a woman **as if we were racist …"

Can you see how the protagonists have twisted it around ? This is done in order to keep the playing field from being level- so no arguments can be brought head-on against what is being said. Before responding, it is necessary to untwist what they are saying for instructions on untwisting the "equality for all " serpent, see the previous post:)]. The signs being carried by the tyrranists bore the words “***equality ***for all” … and there is nothing wrong with those words. Where the “wrong” happens is when their meaning is twisted to accuse good, loving people of being prejudiced and discriminatory and to try and intrude on peaceable consciences. That is known as psychological warfare.

I can’t , in good faith, provide any links to the gay lobbyist sites, but you’d be surprised at the arrogance of some of the leading protagonists. They’re saying that gay (ahem) ‘marriage’ is going to be a foregone conclusion in all of Autralia despite Cardinal Pell’s efforts. I believe, as responsible Catholics, we owe the good Cardinal some prayers. He has to respond to a flood of deceptive, derogatory speech which is all designed to trap him into being portrayed as someone lacking kindness and compassion, while in reality , he has the moral spine to stand up and continue to proclaim the truth held by our Holy Catholic Church.

I think I’ll keep that in mind today on my way to Mass…
 
:ehh: how can we deny people a right that never existed? Aren’t we just affirming the lack of said right? :hmmm:
 
I apologize, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. The first part is clear, but I’m unsure exactly how you intend to reference the second part to the first.

To the first part -
:ehh: how can we deny people a right that never existed? …:
If something never existed, then it cannot be given or taken away.

I don’t clearly understand this second part, because the first part already says the right never existed.
:… Aren’t we just affirming the lack of said right? :hmmm:
Lack, on the other hand, usually suggests a void which can be filled with something that exists.

Would you be able to clarify/elaborate at all ?

Do you mean to suggest that when a right is said not to exist , it really means that the right exists instead and that it is being denied people ?

Before a right can ever be denied, it first has to be established as legitimately belonging to someone.

You might try looking at the two things you’ve said in reverse , if you like - putting the second one first. Although they aren’t too clear, that would be the more logical sequence for determination of a right.
 
I apologize, but I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. The first part is clear, but I’m unsure exactly how you intend to reference the second part to the first.

To the first part -

If something never existed, then it cannot be given or taken away.

I don’t clearly understand this second part, because the first part already says the right never existed.

Lack, on the other hand, usually suggests a void which can be filled with something that exists.

Would you be able to clarify/elaborate at all ?

Do you mean to suggest that when a right is said not to exist , it really means that the right exists instead and that it is being denied people ?

Before a right can ever be denied, it first has to be established as legitimately belonging to someone.

You might try looking at the two things you’ve said in reverse , if you like - putting the second one first. Although they aren’t too clear, that would be the more logical sequence for determination of a right.
I meant that we are affirming that the right doesn’t exist,
sorry, sometimes I’m not very coherent vivacious
If we aren’t giving them a right that doesn’t exist how are we denying them the right?

It just dawned on me that we are on a slippery slope towards legalizing incest, like homosexuality the only thing that has kept it illegal is morality.
 
I meant that we are affirming that the right doesn’t exist,
sorry, sometimes I’m not very coherent vivacious
If we aren’t giving them a right that doesn’t exist how are we denying them the right?

It just dawned on me that we are on a slippery slope towards legalizing incest, like homosexuality the only thing that has kept it illegal is morality.
Thanks for clarifying. I asked because civil rights can become a complicated issue and, unfortunately, the more complicated - the better, as far as the protagonists of gay (ahem) ‘marriage’ are concerned… even though** marriage isn’t a right** . - :dts:

Indeed, as you observe, what the protagonists believe they are achieving, under the guise of ‘equality’, will only lead to further distortions and perversions of the truth.
 
Below is an excerpt subtitled Homosexuality from Father John Hardon’s conference on Sexual Pleasure Outside of Marriage ( which appears to be maybe 2 pages in length and ) touches on the main facets where sexual pleasure outside of marriage is more commonly found.

In the article Father Hardon also expounds upon The Meaning of Marriage which is not a “right”, but as he says elsewhere, is :

“… a natural institution, the lasting union of a man and a woman who agree to give and receive rights over each other for the performance of the act of generation and for the fostering of their mutual love.”

The excerpt Homosexuality :

" In general, homosexuality is some form of sexual relationship among members of the same sex. From a moral perspective three levels are to be distinguished: tendency, attraction, and activity.

Homosexual tendencies in many persons are within the normal range of human nature, whose fallen condition includes every kind of impulse that with sincere effort and the help of divine grace can be controlled.

Sexual attraction for members of the same sex may be partly due to the particular make-up of certain individuals or seduction. This presents a graver problem. Yet here, too, the strong attraction is not by itself sinful and may in fact be an occasion for great supernatural merit. When the condition is pathological, it may require therapy.

Active homosexuality is morally indefensible and has been many times forbidden in revelation and the teaching of the Church. The most extensive declaration on the subject was made by the Holy See and approved by Pope Paul VI in 1975.

The Catechism of Catholic Church devotes an extraordinary amount of space to the subject of homosexuality. This is not surprising given its almost epidemic spread in some countries. As the catechism teaches, Sacred Scripture identifies homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity. Moreover, “tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved” (2357).

So widespread is homosexuality in the United States that gays and lesbians, as they call themselves, exert great power in politics, business and education. The temptation for believing Christians is to lose courage for being charged with homophobia, or the fear of homosexuals.

What needs to be emphasized is that homosexual persons are called to chastity. Their practice of self-mastery will give them inner freedom. Through the support of selfless friendship, prayer and the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist, they can grow in holiness and Christian perfection."

.
 
As pointed out in post # 19, in each country where the gay (ahem)“marriage” agenda is put in place by the gay militants, the first step in their pattern is to set it all in motion, with a “debate”. What looks on the surface to be a straightforward debate, is actually something preplanned - the protagonists carefully lay the groundwork to provide for subjects being discussed on “their terms” so that with the help of the media, it all serves to create an erosive effect – right from the outset.

It is to the advantage of the protagonists to simply repeat and to cause others to repeat the words “gay marriage” and “same sex marriage” over and over, in conversation / discussion and or debate. By so doing , the general public becomes desensitized and desensitizes others to the notion of gay (ahem) ‘marriage’. Polls are also used to accomplish this same objective.

The power of suggestion is much more influential on the human psyche than some would care to admit or to have us think. Hence all the debate and discussion on ‘gay marriage’ - serves to desensitize people and get them not only used to hearing the term "gay ‘marriage’ " but also to be (often unwittingly) guided into the habit of using the term themselves. They read it in the papers. They hear it on the radio. They see and hear it on the TV. Then they end up repeating it when speaking on the subject. In this way, gay ‘marriage’ becomes a “given” ; and then the only discussion remaining is whether you are for or against it.

Please !.. Don’t, for a moment, believe that any of this is purely coincidental . They purposely repeat it over and over again to impress the notion of “gay marriage” upon everyone’s minds. This less than honest device, this stratagem they use, is known as inculcation :

Dr. William James - the father of American Psychology remarked**:
“There is nothing so absurd than if you repeat something often enough people will begin to believe it.”**

With these facts as a backdrop, let’s look again at the transcripts from the video in post #

Newscaster’s words:
0:08 – “…supporters of same sex marriage, which of course Californians just voted to ban”
0:15 - “…a grandmother who supports the ban on gay marriage”
1:16 – “So your group supports Prop 8 the ban on gay marriage”
3:07 -" Everybody who supports gay marriage"

Maggie Gallagher, President of the Institute for Marriage and Public Policy’s words:

3:47 “who support marriage as one man and one woman
4:07 “and treat people who think marriage means a man and a woman as if we were racist …"

Can all see what is happening here ? The newscaster (it matters little whether it is inadvertent or not) becomes an accomplice , a co-strategist. Everybody is saying: “gay marriage,…gay marriage…gay marriage…” .

While the voice on the side of truth - Maggie Gallagher , is saying marriage means one man and one woman… In other words, Maggie Gallagher says, "We can’t say “gay ‘marriage’” - because it isn’t marriage.

It is the emergence of the strawman argument (wisegeek has a very nice clear working definition of the strawman or scarecrow argument here ) .
 
This “gay marriage” propaganda actually resets the mark for the strawman argument several notches higher , making it the strawman argument par excellence. Rather than selecting a small part of what we say about " the institution of Marriage only being between a man and a woman" and using it out of context to misrepresent us, the gay militants have opted to actually put other words in our mouths instead – more ‘condemning’ words which we aren’t actually even saying . We need to be able to recognize this if we hope to be able to untwist what they’re saying before offering a rebuttal or a “correction” .

When someone says to you, “You’re against gay marriage” , that is a totally different thing to saying, “ So you believe that marriage is a ‘natural institution, the lasting institution of a man and a woman who agree to give and receive rights over each other for the performance of the act of generation and for the fostering of their mutual love.’ "

Look at the first part again : It’s only four words, and in the middle we have the words “against gay”. Now, try repeating it a few times … “against gay”… “against gay”… “against gay” . Do you see an effect ?

Next, if someone says the entire four words to us “You’re against gay marriage” , our common inclination is to say “Yes” , (and while we’re on the subject who volunteered me to answer your poll ?) After giving that answer, we’ve opened the door to the barrage which predictably follows : “You’re prejudiced … you don’t believe we gays are equal … you believe in discrimination … you hate gays…” . I find it utterly amazing that gay militants and tyrants are able to tell all these things about our character traits, simply from the fact that we are heterosexual.

All of this accusatory spew on the part of the gay militants demonstrates a severe degree of irony in that it is bigotrous , yet leveled against those who they’ve decided to label as bigots , simply because they are heterosexual.

Some gays who serve a more noble cause in society, such as La Trobe University professor Dennis Altman , don’t have any problems in seeing through the facade of the gay (ahem) “marriage” campaign :

“It shouldn’t come as any surprise that the gay community is made up of people of diverse opinions and ideologies. La Trobe University professor Dennis Altman, a gay-rights pioneer, describes the gay-marriage campaign as, ‘self-indulgent ****… I mean people around the world are being tortured for being homosexual… and people here carry on as if not being allowed to marry [is] a huge abuse of civil rights …’ ".

Unfortunately this “self indulgent **** ” is morally erosive on the fabric of society and serves to the greater detriment and desecration of the institution of marriage.

“You’re against gay marriage” , to the normal heterosexual is an offensive and provocative statement . It is the cry of “Attack!” , against the institution of marriage.

“You’re against gay marriage” , is a totally fallacious claim based on the premeditated, predetermined coercive terminology of the protagonists.

A much simpler more accurate way to state reality in light of the truth is that:

(miilitant) Gays are against marriage.
 
In an article published by The Australian , it is reported that on December 22nd, 2010 , Cardinal George Pell , when agreeing to meet with the militant gay group Australian Marriage Equality – at their request, specified , "It would help me in considering your request for a meeting to receive an assurance that you . . . do not regard opposition to same-sex marriage in itself as a form of prejudice and discrimination, and that you are prepared to say this publicly.”

The same article reported that a spokesman for the gay marriage campaign, Rodney Croome, publicly replied “he was willing to concede that the Catholic Church did not intend to discriminate, meeting part of Cardinal Pell’s demand for a meeting.”

Unfortunately, everyone – even those among the many who support Cardinal Pell’s stand keep quoting this article from The Australian word for word. I believe they are inadvertently promoting the cause of gay (ahem) ‘marriage’ militants .

The part which should be left out when quoting that article from The Australian is the phrase, “* meeting part of Cardinal Pell’s demand for a meeting*.” The Cardinal never offered any opinion as to whether the specification was met. This isn’t a “maybe” or “partial” issue. It’s “either” you accede to the request “or” you don’t.

It shouldn’t be labelled a demand – it’s a condition ; requested so that it might be conducive to dialogue instead of name calling. The “demand”, would actually appear to have been made by the gay militants when they requested a meeting with Cardinal Pell.

Just the same, whether we’re speaking of a condition, a demand, or a stipulation , the assertion that Australian Marriage Equality has somehow met part of the requirement as requested by His Emminence is false. If the past continues to be an indicator of the present ,we discover , that since the very beginning of this charade, nothing has really changed : gay militants will still not relinquish their use of the word discrimination, nor their tendency to wield that word.

… Need a little more convincing ?

Imagine this for a moment :

I have just made the same reply publicly to Cardinal Pell saying, “ In their opposition to gay (ahem) ‘marriage’ , I believe ‘that the Catholic Church did not intend to discriminate’ .”

Now ,there is absolutely nothing preventing me from adding directly on to that statement,:”… However, that doesn’t change the fact that they did indeed discriminate ; it’s discrimination based on equality! ”

Remove the words “intend to” and the Cardinal’s request is met:

*“The Catholic Church did not discriminate.” *
But of course, this would eliminate any room the gay militants would’ve had to maneuver away from that statement.

🤷
 
The Catholic News Agency ran an article today entitled Mexican cardinal defends position on gay ‘marriage’ , but after reading it , I thought the title chosen for this thread is more to the article’s point.

The article basically says that .

It is a classic case of reverse descrimination which keeps repeating itself in various human rights venues throughout the world … but oddly enough, it always seems to be gay rights persecuting the Catholic Church’s freedom of religion.

Human rights abrogating or negating “other” human rights isn’t something that is totally new. As one of my friends who is 20 years my senior and a wily veteran of the political fora put it : " You only really have rights if you have between $ 15, 000 and $ 50, 000 so you can go to court to defend them."

Back in 1999 ( according to MacLean’s Magazine ), the man who would become my country’s current right honourable Prime Minister remarked :

“Human rights commissions, as they are evolving, are an attack on our fundamental freedoms and the basic existence of a democratic society,” he said in a 1999 interview with Terry O’Neill of BC Report newsmagazine." It is in fact totalitarianism. I find this is very scary stuff." He went on to complain about the “bastardization” of the entire concept of rights in modern society.

Now here’s something newer. Early in February of this year, about a month before he died, my dear old dad (about 30 years my senior) had written something down on a notepad and one particular day he kept repeating it to me. He had copied it from his latest issue of Catholic Insight. He kept looking me straight in the eye from his wheelchair and repeating it. Every time I said, “Okay”, he shook his head and would look me in the eye and repeat it again. Finally, I said, “Okay wait, I’ll write it down, repeat it slowly.” When I had written it down, I asked, “Who said it ?” He grabbed his latest edition of Catholic Insight and held it up to me saying “Here - it’s in here…He said it.” After a little navigating, I found out it was from an address given by Australian Cardinal George Pell. This is what dad kept repeating:

"…religious freedom is not a human right and may not be compatible with human rights."

The article can be read as presented by Catholic Insight or you can read EWTN’s Zenit Dispatch version.

Cardinal Pell’s conclusion is based on a paper’s opening statement submitted by the Race Descrimination Commisioner to an inquiry into freedom of religion in Australia which the Human Rights Commission has been conducting. The opening statement reads thus :

***“The compatibility of religious freedom with human rights is the subject of the most comprehensive study ever undertaken in Australia in this area. …” ***

That means that the recurring scenario mentioned above is moving to it’s next stage. It won’t be a case of gay rights persecuting the Catholic Church’s right to freedom of religion any more. The opening staement in bold quoted directly above posits that : * freedom of religion is not a human right*.

That is borne out by Cardinal Norberto Rivera being sued for standing his ground (let’s all say a prayer or maybe a decade of the Rosary for the good Cardinal ).

A priest of our archdiocese once told me that the “english language has been taken hostage and we have to try and take it back.” I would expand on that saying those with an anti-Church agenda take any language hostage.

I welcome anyone who is versed in the science of picking out the lies, ambiguities, and prevaricative speech or equivocations to join the thread and share you wisdom with us. Everyone is welcome but I think our focus should be on helping each other to detect, identify and sift out all the deception in the purported substantiation of the charges of descrimination, and it’s related components. I think related stories would be helpful too.

I don’t think any anti-gay rhetoric would be beneficial here, it would only serve to get people banned…The same goes for pro-gay rhetoric and militance: Please take your comments elsewhere. This isn’t really about debate, I’m more interested in sharing a type of comparative analysis.
  • Our focus in this thread is on identifying the deception in the methods presently being used to persecute the Catholic Church (who has always been a champion of human rights) under the guise of or in the name of human rights.
Can anyone provide us with a link to the actual statements of Cardinal Norberto Rivera and Fr. Valdemar ? i haven’t been able to locate them so far and I think it’s a great place to start.

Thankyou in advance and God Bless.

🙂
**Looking at everything written in this entire thread and the articles in the Catholic Insight and EWTN and then the headline in the MacLean’s Magazine **.

I don’t think it’s a matter of P.M. Harper not knowing what to do about protecting Free Speech as it is more having to do that he’s being forced to say very little and avoid it entirely by giving the illusion he’s doing something about it.
 
**Looking at everything written in this entire thread and the articles in the Catholic Insight and EWTN and then the headline in the MacLean’s Magazine **.

I don’t think it’s a matter of P.M. Harper not knowing what to do about protecting Free Speech as it is more having to do that he’s being forced to say very little and avoid it entirely by giving the illusion he’s doing something about it.
I would agree with that.

At the time of the MacLeans interview it was still roughly 7 years before he would become prime minister. He would’ve been much more free to speak then. In the preceding years he’d called the government in power at that time “dysfunctional” (which wasn’t very far off the mark). In the end, he inherited the damaged government and hopefullly will keep it from growing any more dysfunctional. My point was that** he recognized the flaws which were being exploited in the human rights tribunals**. Mr. Harper questioned whether these tribunals or even the Supreme Court should have the power to change federal policy.
 
Fast forward now to this article published in The Australian January 31, 2011 entitled *Gays vow respect in marriage debate *.

Consider its concluding paragraph:

The publication states that “just as we acknowledge that it is possible to oppose marriage equality without hating homosexuals, so we ask those who differ with us on this important issue to acknowledge that it is possible to support marriage equality without seeking to undermine, marriage, family or religion”.

There are a few different ways to examine this statement.

We could notice that it is expressed as a type of equation where they say [part 1] “ just as we acknowledge…” = [part 2] “so we ask those…” ; where one side equals or implies the other … agreed ? So then it shouldn’t make any difference which statement appears first as long as there is an equal sign between them. Let’s try interchanging parts 1 & 2 :

“We ask those who differ with us on this important issue to acknowledge that it is possible to support marriage equality without seeking to undermine, marriage, family or religion , just as we acknowledge that it is possible to oppose marriage equality without hating homosexuals.”

When it is presented this way, I find it easier to detect a slight indirect implication going on where if we refuse to see it their way, then they might call us “homosexual haters”.

However, a far more effective method for scrutinizing this particular statement is the method of extraction .

But first, BTW, did anybody notice that they used the word “discrimination” again ? … This time it’s implied – in the phrase “hating homosexuals” . It’s important for them to always keep the other side on the defensive with an impending accusation.

Let’s see what is really being said . First we need to trim away the subterfuge. So let’s lose whatever the gay militants wish to acknowledge themselves and just concentrate on what they wish us to acknowledge [part 2]:

“We ask those who differ with us on this important issue to acknowledge that it is possible to support marriage equality without seeking to undermine, marriage, family or religion.”

… Starting to get a little uncomfortable yet ? Let’s keep going, and now reduce it to even simpler terms:

“We ask those who differ with us on this important issue to acknowledge that it is possible to support marriage equality without seeking to undermine, marriage.”

… and one final trimming leaves us with:

“Acknowledge that it is possible to support marriage equality without seeking to undermine, marriage.”

Wait a minute … :hmmm: … isn’t that what they’ve been saying from the beginning ? … Let’s look at it again. Only this time we’ll reunite it with the “family” and “religion” aspects which were removed previously, and we’ll add a little emphasis and attitude for the sake of our own sense of conviction. That would leave us with :

“Acknowledge , or, agree with us while we force the vacillating politicians and jellyfish judges to legislate a redefinition of marriage so that sodomy becomes the marriage act … so that homosexual couples can adopt children … so that you must compromise your sense of conviction, thereby watering down your own religious beliefs” (now let’s bring back a little more of the stuff we trimmed away) “… or we’ll call you ‘homosexual haters’.”

Homosexual civil unions possibly might’ve been the closest thing to a compromise. That way would have at least left the institution of marriage intact and a “live and let live” attitude could have existed (maybe not flourished) without us ever being told to condone those civil unions. But we aren’t the aggressors here – we’re the ones under attack. Marriage is taking a beating. Almost everyone starts walking on eggshells as soon as they hear the word “discrimination”. So we shouldn’t expect the gay militants to give that expression up that they currently wield any time soon ; I would estimate not in the next 437 years at least.

It’s one thing to undermine marriage by redefining it so that disordered homosexual unions are equated to the union of a man and a woman – the institution , the covenant of our very existence. That always has a negative effect on family and on religion.

But when we take into consideration this latest statement by AME, now they want to lie and say they haven’t done this … that they haven’t undermined marriage, and the family … and worse still, they’re asking us to lie along with them.

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When we look at the practicality of homosexual (ahem) ‘marriage’ , that is to say, when we begin to examine the consequences occurring from these actual conditions being imposed on society, we discover that the “undermining” reaches well beyond the institution of marriage .

The cases of several Christian Business Owners “Found Guilty For Disagreeing With Homosexuality” effectively demonstrate how, armed with the warped “authority” of the human rights tribunals, gay tyrants freely intrude on the livelihood of heterosexuals and how on occasion, these intrusions can even extend right into the homes of heterosexuals.

As the article states :

" The first institutions to disappear under the recently passed Sexual Orientation Regulations of the Equality Act, installed under Tony Blair’s Labour government, were the nation’s Catholic adoption agencies. All of them were forced either to close or sever their ties with the Catholic Church upon being instructed that they must consider homosexual partners as prospective adoptees."

… and …

"The Bulls, who are appealing last week’s ruling, say they are being driven out of business by a “hate campaign,” and have received abusive phone calls and bogus negative reviews of their hotel have been posted to a travel website. Several homosexual men have called and demanded rooms, threatening legal action if they are refused. Mrs. Bull told the Daily Telegraph, ‘One told me I was an abomination and would go straight to hell. These people know nothing about my lifestyle, and I’ve been astounded by their cruelty.’ "

If one wishes to remain aloof and deny that any of those intrusions were/are ever intentional, then one is best advised to steer clear of the more factual report that "Christian Guesthouse Owners May be Victims of a ‘Sting’ by Homosexualist Activists .

What we are seeing here, is a suppression or trampling of the rights which individuals have to live their lives according to their sense of conviction.

Before certain judges and politicians could substitute their own demented distortion of the definition of “marriage” , they first had to believe their own skewed definition of “equality” - a definition which is acutely anaemic when measured from the persepective of moral conviction. Trying to establish rights without any sense of moral conviction is like boxing in the dark. It’s like having a compass where the needle stays fixed and the rest of the compass turns on a whim.

As events evolve, are we not beginning to see the emergence of the homosexual lifestyle , homosexual (ahem) ‘marriage’ and homosexual adoption as “superior” to all others ? The law would certainly have us believe it… wouldn’t it ? No longer are we being asked to view our fellow human beings through the eyes of “equality” ; we’re reached the point where it is now more exact to say that we’re being forced to view the entire world through “gay-tinted glasses” - the same way the gay tyrants and activists view it.

That is morally oppressive, and is at the very least an abrogation if not an abomination of religious freedom.

What was that expression from sacred scripture again …?.. [Matt 23:24]
 
That most recently linked article in the previous post warrants a second glance.

Please have another look at this sentence from the article :

The legal expenses of the two homosexual men are being paid by the taxpayer-funded Equality and Human Rights Commission, a body set up under the Labour government as part of that government’s “equalities” push.

Peter and Hazelmary Bull have to foot their own legal expenses, but the “taxpayer-funded Equality and Human Rights Commission” is paying the legal expenses of the two homosexual activists who allegedly set them up … :hmmm: For a moment there, I thought they said " Equality and Human Rights Commission " .

What shall we call it - hypocrisy…?..irony… ?

Actually, in plain point blank english, the Equality and Human Rights Commission is discriminating against the Bulls … isn’t it ?
 
How about little change for a moment … a temporary break…same topic of the thread title – Being Sued For Being Catholic, but from a somewhat novel vantage point ?

The province of Quebec where I currently reside, really has a unique personality … not always an admittedly pleasant personality perhaps, but one bearing a dynamic generated by people so frequently passionate about what they believe ( or have ceased to believe). Subsequently, from here also comes a story with a markedly unique perspective on Catholics who were sued and ruled to pay compensation by a human rights tribunal.

The root of the pertinent context could be classified as rare by todays standards : Not totally unlike the fact that the late John F. Kennedy was the only Catholic president of the USA ever, so also Quebec Premier Maurice Duplessis who placed a Crucifix over the Speaker’s chair in the assembly in 1936, used to say that he led the “only Catholic government in North America.”

Despite some of the unholy things happening here today, no one can deny this province was built on a rich Catholic heritage . Going back a little further in time to the province’s infancy, we discover it was founded largely (if not exclusively) by the religious orders who took it upon themselves to build schools and hospitals.

The roots of Quebec’s Catholic heritage can be easily traced all the way back to the early 1600’s . Once the roots took hold and society began to thrive ,the (practically exclusive) Catholic character of Quebec continued to grow proportionately … to the point where Quebec was sometimes referred to as a “jewel in our Blessed Mother’s Crown” .

As recorded in an article published by the New York Times , Dec. 10, 1881 during the speech delivered by Mark Twain at a banquet in Montreal which had been given in his honor , Mr. Twain remarked: “This is the first time I was ever in a city where you couldn’t throw a brick without breaking a church window. Yet I was told that you were going to build one more.”

That little bit of background information, albeit incomplete, provides some context for the past. The present however, is radically different here. For one thing, a sad fact of today is that this province’s abortion rate leads all of Canada’s other provinces.

Two links which follow describe how a Quebec’s human rights tribunal called on the city of Saguenay to end the practice of reciting a Christian prayer at the start of council meetings, to remove the crucifix and Sacred Heart statue from a civic meeting room (utterly amazing that they have been able to continue until now) and to pay “the plaintiff $30,000 in damages for the supposed pain the council-chamber praying inflicted on his delicate atheist sensibilities. This is absurd …”
Both articles originate from the only complete English language newspaper remaining in Montreal – The Montreal Gazette.

The first article Crucifix Stays in Assembly… appears to have a better overview of the circumstances.

While the second article which emanated also from the Montreal Gazette two days later does make some excellent points, (despite the fact that its author is not identified)
Civic spaces should be neutral ground for religion ,in its tone ,appears to come from someone who either has an axe to grind, or a Crucifix to grind …🤷… or both.
 
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