Nowhere (in Scripture)...passing on their apostolic authority to successors

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guanophore

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This post was taken from the non-Catholic religions from a thread on “What is the Real reason you are not Catholic”.
While Matthias did indeed “suceed” Judas as an apostle, this is in no sense an argument for continuing apostolic succession. Matthias being chosen to replace Judas is only an argument for the church replacing ungodly and unfaithful leaders (such as Judas), with godly and faithful leaders (such as Matthias). Nowhere in the New Testament are any of the twelve apostles recorded as passing on their apostolic authority to successors. Nowhere do any of the apostles predict that they will pass on their apostolic authority.

No, Jesus ordained the apostles to build the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2).

Therefore, true apostolic succession is that church which adheres faithfully to the teachings of the apostles.
I disagree that there is no evidence in scripture, and when I get back home I will take up this thread.
 
TriuneUnity - Jay29 was kind enough to post this reply a while back to my inquiry re: Apostolic succesion. I found it extremely helpful:

Authority is Transferred by the Sacrament of Ordination
Acts 1:15-26
- the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ’s own authority.
**Acts 1:20 **- a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his “bishopric”) is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, “I’ll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own.”
**Acts 1:22 **- literally, “one must be ordained” to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ’s authority.
Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.
**Acts 9:17-19 **- even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.
Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.
Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.
Acts 15:22-27 - preachers of the Word must be sent by the bishops in union with the Church. We must trace this authority to the apostles.
**2 Cor. 1:21-22 **- Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.
Col 1:25 - Paul calls his position a divine “office.” An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it’s not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.
1 Tim. 3:1 - Paul uses the word “episcopoi” (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul’s use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.
**1 Tim. 4:14 **- again, apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination).
**1 Tim. 5:22 **- Paul urges Timothy to be careful in laying on the hands (ordaining others). The gift of authority is a reality and cannot be used indiscriminately.
2 Tim. 1:6 - Paul again reminds Timothy the unique gift of God that he received through the laying on of hands.
2 Tim. 4:1-6 - at end of Paul’s life, Paul charges Timothy with the office of his ministry . We must trace true apostolic lineage back to a Catholic bishop.
**2 Tim. 2:2 **- this verse shows God’s intention is to transfer authority to successors (here, Paul to Timothy to 3rd to 4th generation). It goes beyond the death of the apostles.
Titus 1:5; Luke 10:1 - the elders of the Church are appointed and hold authority. God has His children participate in Christ’s work.
1 John 4:6 - whoever knows God listens to us (the bishops and the successors to the apostles). This is the way we discern truth and error (not just by reading the Bible and interpreting it for ourselves).
**Exodus 18:25-26 **- Moses appoints various heads over the people of God. We see a hierarchy, a transfer of authority and succession.
**Exodus 40:15 **- the physical anointing shows that God intended a perpetual priesthood with an identifiable unbroken succession.
Numbers 3:3 - the sons of Aaron were formally “anointed” priests in “ordination” to minister in the priests’ “office.”
**Numbers 16:40 **- shows God’s intention of unbroken succession within His kingdom on earth. Unless a priest was ordained by Aaron and his descendants, he had no authority.
Numbers 27:18-20 - shows God’s intention that, through the “laying on of hands,” one is commissioned and has authority.
Deut. 34:9 - Moses laid hands upon Joshua, and because of this, Joshua was obeyed as successor, full of the spirit of wisdom.
**Sirach 45:15 **- Moses ordains Aaron and anoints him with oil. There is a transfer of authority through formal ordination.
 
Where’s the laying on of hands for Matthias? Why not? How does this apply to ordination today?
 
Where’s the laying on of hands for Matthias? Why not? How does this apply to ordination today?
Not every move that the Apostles made is recorded in the Bible. Given the rest of the evidence, it is reasonable to assume that “enrolled with the Apostles” includes the laying on of hands.

Certainly these are the steps that are taken today. Scripture, prayer, discernment, followed by the laying on of hands. Three of the four are accounted in the passage, where the fourth is accounted in similar situations elsewhere.
 
Where’s the laying on of hands for Matthias? Why not? How does this apply to ordination today?
What guanophore said, or because you see in this particular ceremony, they were still acting with Old Testament customs in effect, i.e. drawing lots (Acts 1:26, Prv 16:33) prior to the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Ordination imparts the Holy Spirit.
 
What guanophore said, or because you see in this particular ceremony, they were still acting with Old Testament customs in effect, i.e. drawing lots (Acts 1:26, Prv 16:33) prior to the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Ordination imparts the Holy Spirit.
I’ll just add that Matthias was not the successor of an Apostles (as bishops are) but an Apostle himself, the reason for the qualifiations (Acts 1:21-2) which are not repeated for the qualifications for bishop in I Timothy and Titus.
 
What guanophore said, or because you see in this particular ceremony, they were still acting with Old Testament customs in effect, i.e. drawing lots (Acts 1:26, Prv 16:33) prior to the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Ordination imparts the Holy Spirit.
Good point. Thanks.👍
 
What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2).
Eph 1:13: “In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation), in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise.”

Col 1:5: “For the hope that is laid up for you in heaven, which you have heard in the word of the truth of the gospel,”

2 Tim 2:15: “Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.”

2 Tim 4:2: “Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.”

Where in any of these passages does it state that the gospel must be properly recorded so that once the 12 apostles died, no one would be needed to continue to spread and teach it?

Where does it state that the gospel must be written down, rather than taught orally and written?

Where does it state that the “New Testament” is limited to the canonized scripture we have today and is the only word of the gospel that is important?

Where does it say that the “New Testament” is the foundation of the church?
Eph 2:20 says “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,”
 
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