NT Scriptural Reference

[Church_Militant]

michaelp:

I do to the degree that they are in submission to Christ Lordship. We are all in submission to it to varying degrees.

Hey Mike!
If submission to those is authority over us in the church is so critical…(and like you I believe that it is), then how in the world can Protestants and all the rest justify the Reformation break from the Catholic Churc?. I’ve heard a lot of Non-Catholic preachers speak on this topic over my years among them (Juan Carlos Ortiz, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and Bill Gothard to name just a few.) and they counsel that one remain under that “covering” even when the leadership is less than stellar. (Like an unbelieving or fallen husband for instance.).
Isn’t the whole schism of the Reformation a violation of that submission, especially since the Catholic Church dealt with the needed reforms and is now back on track? To my mind, if this is really true about submission, then there should be a mass influx back into Catholicism as people obey these Biblical principles.

Hope you had a grand Christmas and New Years, my friend.

 

[Fidelis]

michaelp:

John 1:12. This is the only occurance of the word “recieve” in connection with salvaton. By far the more common word it “faith/trust.” Recieve is not a bad concept since it is another way to say to trust in what He did at the cross. When you trust in what he did, you “recieve” him as your savior. Since it is you who is doing this (i.e. not by virtue of any connection with your local church, family, country, etc.), it must be “personal.” Hence, people must recieve Christ as their personal savior.

Holy smokes, michaelp! I lost track of the number of hoops one must jump through and the amount of stretching one must undergo to get to “YoumustrecieveJesusasyour personalLordandSavior” from this line of reasoning!

Isn’t it more honest to acknowledge that the injunction, as stated, does not exist in Scripture, and is actually a formulation based upon traditional American Protestant popular theology?