Nude drawing class - bachelorette party

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

I did a web search. Apparently, these parties are all the rage in Austrailia. The Artful Bachorette was started in New York by two women artists from Austrailia and more places are beginning to do it (I saw some yelp reviews of another place in California).

There is a NY Times article about the Artful Bachorette. The male models know why they are there, it is not just another art class to them.

A couple of interesting things: The bride to be is asked to remove the towel from around the model. The teacher is quoted as instructing the students, “Don’t forget the male member. It’s very important.”

This company does give the opinion of having the model wear a swimsuit.

Food and alcohol is provided and drinking is encouraged while drawing.

This is just a sample of what some of these parties may be like. No telling if the one the OP is invited to will be the same. But, still, I would make an excuse for that part of the shower at least.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

If it is a legit art school, I feel terrible for the model who may not realize the private art class is actually just going to be a chance to just ogle his body and let people make inappropriate comments.

The one bachelorette party I attended was basically a really awesome grown-up sleepover. It was 100% appropriate. Since we were adults we actually had the money and the freedom to have the sleepover that any woman’s inner 5th grade girl would only dream about!

I don’t know how well you know the bride, so I don’t know how much influence you have over the party. If you have the means to influence the party plans, recommend a really awesome sleepover. It could even be a throwback theme of some sort.

One of my nieces, who is 29, had a PJ party and movie night as her shower. It was at her mom’s house, which has a big living room. A projector that plays DVDs was borrowed and the movie was shown on a wall, which looked amazing. There was popcorn, nachos, bowls of candy, and sodas. And tickets were given at the door for “admission”, but really they were for prizes. My nieces was named the “star” of the show.

They were planning on showing Leonard Dicaprio’s The Great Gatsby, which is why I was happy to be busy that night. LOL But they actually got bored with it and decided to play Mama Mia instead (I know, not the best storyline, but fun). That turned out to be a great decision because they all started singing and dancing along.

I think they all had a great time. Yeah, after you are married how often can you get to do something like that?

 

[Demetra2]

The ‘art class’ goes for 2 hrs. There is no drinking or games during this time, but after the class we will be going to her place where there will be drinking and games.

“A bachelorette party posing as an art class”. This is what I was worried about. I know the girls coming are pretty tame and will be dignified and respectful, my problem is the reason for choosing this particular activity in the first place. The classes are held by a company that holds classes specifically for the purpose of hens nights, none of us are artists, nor have any interest in being artists.

After reading your comments, I think you would be wise to skip this. Obviously the entire point here is sexual not artistic. I don’t understand why women want or need bachelorette parties if it involves viewing naked men “artistic” or otherwise. Totally inappropriate for a Catholic bride(or groom) and her wedding party. Shouldn’t the bride only have eyes for the groom?

 

[Demetra2]

I want to add something to this ^^ my original comment:

I have had male students who have confided that they actually loathe these kinds of bachelor parties…they go because of pressure. They go because they don’t want their male friends to call them names or ridicule their values.
Pressure.
So now women, in order to keep up with the guys, have adopted these ridiculous ritual parties. Take a stand., When women decide as a group that they will not participate in the objectification of men, then maybe the guys will man up and say, you know, this stuff is dumb and demeaning to us as well. We can celebrate without compromising our values as faithful men and women.
your one vote won’t change the world…but every little bit helps! If you make one young woman stop and think about it in the appropriate light…you will have made a difference.
peace to you,
pianist

This !

 

[josh987654321]

Hi all,

I am soon to attend a bachelorette party for a good friend. Said friend does not want strippers, which is a relief, but she does want us all to attend a nude drawing class (I’ve been told that they do teach us how to draw). Now I don’t have a problem with nude art for the purpose of art alone, but in this context I’m not so sure. Do I sit this out? Advice please

I would sit this one out if it were me. If they wish for a reason, ask them, “would you be comfortable going through with this if the nude model was your brother, your son or your husband? Because he could easily be someones brother, he is certainly someones son and he probably is or will some day be someones husband.”

In another thread, I was not against nude art class.

In this thread, I am against it. This sounds like it’s basically a stripper who stays in one position.

I say your advice is very wise ‘on_the_hill’

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Nacho45]

Sit it out. If the nude person is not your spouse and the two of you aren’t alone, you probably should correct yourself. Very few exceptions to this and “art” isn’t one of them.

 

[on_the_hill]

It just seems kind of “icky” to me. Like, really tacky. But I’m a guy, so maybe that’s why I can’t imagine anyone wanting to draw pictures of a naked man. Unless it’s for an art class and study of the human figure.

Maybe you could suggest a pole dancing party instead?

Best bachelorette party I’ve heard of: We were in my friend’s apartment, celebrating his bachelor party. His fiancee and her girlfriends were out celebrating her bachelorette party. The phone rings. It’s the ladies, calling to say they’re downstairs and on their way up. A dozen half-drunk guys suddenly got quiet and looked at each other, “Oh…what do we do?!” The last thing we wanted was for the girls to crash our fun.

Turns out they weren’t downstairs. It was just a gag! But boy, did they have us on the run for a few minutes.

The party turned out great, though, because later on we had to load the groom into an abandoned grocery cart and push him to an ER for to get stitches after one of the guys flipped him over his shoulder and he put his ankle through a window. Good times.

His bride wasn’t too happy when he limped down the aisle, though.

 

[Margaret22]

So now women, in order to keep up with the guys, have adopted these ridiculous ritual parties… We can celebrate without compromising our values as faithful men and women.

I agree with this idea. I don’t know when Bachelorette parties of this type became the norm. It used to be women had the civilized wedding showers. I am sure that my mother never had a bachelorette party or went to one. I was shocked when I went to the first (and last) bachelorette party of the rather scandalous type. I just sat there with my sister-in-law feeling quite old and not at all inclined to partake in games involving male body parts. Had I known ahead of time that this is what modern women had now descended to, I would not have gone. Sounds like the “art” aspect may not be too sincere in this case. Maybe you could take your friend out to lunch to celebrate on another day or something.

 

[chevalier]

Hi all,

I am soon to attend a bachelorette party for a good friend. Said friend does not want strippers, which is a relief, but she does want us all to attend a nude drawing class (I’ve been told that they do teach us how to draw). Now I don’t have a problem with nude art for the purpose of art alone, but in this context I’m not so sure. Do I sit this out? Advice please

I don’t want to pass judgement, but I wouldn’t go. Not to my taste, even if found to be morally acceptable. Barring any concrete indication of it being intended to be a sexy thing to do, one should probably presume that the people who came up with it are acting silly (while perhaps a little lacking of a sense of propriety), but it any case I wouldn’t go, nor would I be happy to hear about my child or spouse attending.

After reading your comments, I think you would be wise to skip this. Obviously the entire point here is sexual not artistic. I don’t understand why women want or need bachelorette parties if it involves viewing naked men “artistic” or otherwise. Totally inappropriate for a Catholic bride(or groom) and her wedding party. Shouldn’t the bride only have eyes for the groom?

Letting off steam, I guess, coping with the loss of freedom, showing a bit of a contrarian attitude, something along those lines, plus the fact our society these days puts so much emphasis on the sexy.

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t want to pass judgement, but I wouldn’t go. Not to my taste, even if found to be morally acceptable. Barring any concrete indication of it being intended to be a sexy thing to do, one should probably presume that the people who came up with it are acting silly (while perhaps a little lacking of a sense of propriety), but it any case I wouldn’t go, nor would I be happy to hear about my child or spouse attending.

Letting off steam, I guess, coping with the loss of freedom, showing a bit of a contrarian attitude, something along those lines, plus the fact our society these days puts so much emphasis on the sexy.

The more I think about this whole idea, the more certain I am that if St. Paul or St. John Chrysostom had heard of it, they’d have apoplexy. The holy women would have set themselves to a novena at the thought of it.

This is a very bad idea, it in no way promotes virtue, and really, “inappropriate” is the kindest word I can manage to describe it.

 

[EasterJoy]

"…If the bridegroom shows his wife that he takes no pleasure in worldly excess, and will not stand for it, their marriage will remain free from the evil influences that are so popular these days. Let them shun the immodest music and dancing that are currently so fashionable.

   I am aware that many people think me ridiculous for giving such advice; but if you listen to me, you will understand the advantages of a sober lifestyle more and more as time goes on. You will no longer laugh at me, but will laugh instead at the way people live now like silly children or drunken men. What is our duty, then? Remove from your lives shameful, immodest, and Satanic music, and don't associate with people who enjoy such profligate entertainment...."

Homily on Marriage, St. John Chrysostom

 

[chevalier]

The more I think about this whole idea, the more certain I am that if St. Paul or St. John Chrysostom had heard of it, they’d have apoplexy. The holy women would have set themselves to a novena at the thought of it.

This is a very bad idea, it in no way promotes virtue, and really, “inappropriate” is the kindest word I can manage to describe it.

I share in your sentiment, though I tried to be charitable and presume the best intent as probably even justice itself requires. But a lot of presuming is necessary compared to what one’s normally inclined to think.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

"…If the bridegroom shows his wife that he takes no pleasure in worldly excess, and will not stand for it, their marriage will remain free from the evil influences that are so popular these days. Let them shun the immodest music and dancing that are currently so fashionable.

   I am aware that many people think me ridiculous for giving such advice; but if you listen to me, you will understand the advantages of a sober lifestyle more and more as time goes on. You will no longer laugh at me, but will laugh instead at the way people live now like silly children or drunken men. What is our duty, then? Remove from your lives shameful, immodest, and Satanic music, and don't associate with people who enjoy such profligate entertainment...."

Homily on Marriage, St. John Chrysostom

What’s the connection? He seems to be talking about the same generic subject (i.e., potential for sin in entertainment) but beyond that?

EasterJoy:

This is a very bad idea, it in no way promotes virtue, and really, “inappropriate” is the kindest word I can manage to describe it.

We all seem to be on the same page. This activity is questionable at best.

On a slightly different tangent and with no disrespect intended, how do you have a celebration that “promotes virtue” and is “appropriate” without it being a snoozefest? I just keep picturing several close friends, in this case presumably young, seated around a table sipping tea and sharing recipes and going home an hour later. Zzzz… lol.

I hope she still goes to the games and drinks portion of the party, that way she’s not doing the questionable nude “art” but not being a killjoy either.

 

[EasterJoy]

What’s the connection? He seems to be talking about the same generic subject (i.e., potential for sin in entertainment) but beyond that?

We all seem to be on the same page. This activity is questionable at best.

On a slightly different tangent and with no disrespect intended, how do you have a celebration that “promotes virtue” and is “appropriate” without it being a snoozefest? I just keep picturing several close friends, in this case presumably young, seated around a table sipping tea and sharing recipes and going home an hour later. Zzzz… lol.

I hope she still goes to the games and drinks portion of the party, that way she’s not doing the questionable nude “art” but not being a killjoy either.

Sorry, but I’m pretty sure the Church Fathers didn’t write anything specifically about the topic of women having nude or near-nude male models at their “bachelorette” parties.

You have a party that is fun and yet is appropriate and does not offend virtue in the same way you have a wedding reception that is joyful without promoting impurity or excess. If you can’t have fun without introducing some vice, you do have a problem. There is no necessary conflict, but we have a choice between fun and virtue, let’s hope that virtue will get nod every time!

So be imitators of God, as beloved children, and live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma. Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. So do not be associated with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light, for light produces every kind of goodness and righteousness and truth. Eph 5:1-9

BTW, can we also point out, just for the sake of completeness, that if one goes to a party where there is drinking and chooses not to have any liquor, one is not a “killjoy” for that, either. If you think you can’t have fun without liquor, you probably ought to refrain from drinking until you satisfy yourself that you can. (I would hope this goes without saying, but I’m not sure this is the generally-accepted standard in the world, either.)

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Sorry, but I’m pretty sure the Church Fathers didn’t write anything specifically about the topic of women having nude or near-nude male models at their “bachelorette” parties.

No, I’m sure they didn’t and no one should expect them to have done so.

But, hey, don’t we all agree that this is relatively straightforward? Figuring out whether or not there’s a genuine artistic motivation is at least half the battle.

You have a party that is fun and yet is appropriate and does not offend virtue in the same way you have a wedding reception that is joyful without promoting impurity or excess.

Right, but my curious cat deeply desires a more explicit understanding of this situation. Speaking for myself only (FWIW), I see a culture that is desperately crossed up in a false dichotomy. We are bombarded by outside influences that scream, “you only live once!” and “if it feels good, do it!” but we can (and many often do) swing to the opposite end of that false dichotomy where sin is lurking behind every smile, if you know what I mean.

If you can’t have fun without introducing some vice, you do have a problem. There is no necessary conflict, but we have a choice between fun and virtue, let’s hope that virtue will get nod every time!

Let’s hope.

BTW, can we also point out, just for the sake of completeness, that if one goes to a party where there is drinking and chooses not to have any liquor, one is not a “killjoy” for that, either. If you think you can’t have fun without liquor, you probably ought to refrain from drinking until you satisfy yourself that you can. (I would hope this goes without saying, but I’m not sure this is the generally-accepted standard in the world, either.)

Sure. I just hope you didn’t take me to mean any of that. I definitely don’t mean to suggest that she should drink if she prefers not to, or that she should be around alcohol if she has any kind of addiction issues.

I just meant that, barring any of that kind of stuff, it sounds recommendable to go to that part of the party as 1) it might be a good time, 2) she doesn’t feel left out and nor do the rest of them think she isn’t being supportive and of course 3) there isn’t necessarily anything sinful about it.

 

[EasterJoy]

No, I’m sure they didn’t and no one should expect them to have done so.

But, hey, don’t we all agree that this is relatively straightforward? Figuring out whether or not there’s a genuine artistic motivation is at least half the battle.

Right, but my curious cat deeply desires a more explicit understanding of this situation. Speaking for myself only (FWIW), I see a culture that is desperately crossed up in a false dichotomy. We are bombarded by outside influences that scream, “you only live once!” and “if it feels good, do it!” but we can (and many often do) swing to the opposite end of that false dichotomy where sin is lurking behind every smile, if you know what I mean.

Let’s hope.

Sure. I just hope you didn’t take me to mean any of that. I definitely don’t mean to suggest that she should drink if she prefers not to, or that she should be around alcohol if she has any kind of addiction issues.

I just meant that, barring any of that kind of stuff, it sounds recommendable to go to that part of the party as 1) it might be a good time, 2) she doesn’t feel left out and nor do the rest of them think she isn’t being supportive and of course 3) there isn’t necessarily anything sinful about it.

No, I did not take you to mean that there has to be liquor to have fun, but I continue to be surprised at the number of people who say, “go to the party and the drinking afterwards.” Most bachelor parties are an excuse to have an evening of bad ideas that men with wives do not get to indulge in. That is already a bad idea. Bad ideas are bad ideas; they don’t become good ideas because “you only leave bachelorhood once.”

Even if this is meant to be innocent, I don’t think it is a good idea. There are a lot of other ways for women to have an enjoyable evening around the celebration of an impending marriage, and there is just so much that could go wrong with this one. When there is an automatic eye roll at the question, “What could possibly go wrong?” there is a reason for that!

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

No, I did not take you to mean that there has to be liquor to have fun, but I continue to be surprised at the number of people who say, “go to the party and the drinking afterwards.” Most bachelor parties are an excuse to have an evening of bad ideas that men with wives do not get to indulge in. That is already a bad idea. Bad ideas are bad ideas; they don’t become good ideas because “you only leave bachelorhood once.”

There’s bad and then there’s baaaaad. For my bachelor party, we went to a renaissance fair, drank pint after pint of honey mead (with some water chasers, admittedly), ate nothing but turkey legs, mozarella sticks, cheeseburgers and cheesesteaks for a day and a half, belched without mercy and held impromptu foam-sword fights, made a mess of the house we were in (with the owner’s bachelor party ‘gift’ being that all the cleanup work was on him). All “bad” ideas, trust me. But, you know, mostly that’s “bad” stuff that I wouldn’t do with or around my wife or at least not without getting an annoying earful.

So there’s bad and then there’s baaaaaaaaaaad like hard drugs, strippers, prostitutes, fornication, not having a designated driver when drinking, gambling your life savings, etc.

Even if this is meant to be innocent, I don’t think it is a good idea. There are a lot of other ways for women to have an enjoyable evening around the celebration of an impending marriage, and there is just so much that could go wrong with this one. When there is an automatic eye roll at the question, “What could possibly go wrong?” there is a reason for that!

With the “art,” the drinking/games part of it or both? I doubt that the “art” would have much in the way of worldly consequences, as it’s probably not going to lead to fornication or arrest or anything like that. It’s just that you’re (obviously) opening yourself up to the possibility of sin but that’s enough to make it worth avoiding.

As to the drinking/games part, it is probably fine but just depends on the circumstances.

BTW, sorry for the excessive use of quotation marks. I can’t help myself.

 

[EasterJoy]

There’s bad and then there’s baaaaad. For my bachelor party, we went to a renaissance fair, drank pint after pint of honey mead (with some water chasers, admittedly), ate nothing but turkey legs, mozarella sticks, cheeseburgers and cheesesteaks for a day and a half, belched without mercy and held impromptu foam-sword fights, made a mess of the house we were in (with the owner’s bachelor party ‘gift’ being that all the cleanup work was on him). All “bad” ideas, trust me. But, you know, mostly that’s “bad” stuff that I wouldn’t do with or around my wife or at least not without getting an annoying earful.

So there’s bad and then there’s baaaaaaaaaaad like hard drugs, strippers, prostitutes, fornication, not having a designated driver when drinking, gambling your life savings, etc.

With the “art,” the drinking/games part of it or both? I doubt that the “art” would have much in the way of worldly consequences, as it’s probably not going to lead to fornication or arrest or anything like that. It’s just that you’re (obviously) opening yourself up to the possibility of sin but that’s enough to make it worth avoiding.

As to the drinking/games part, it is probably fine but just depends on the circumstances.

BTW, sorry for the excessive use of quotation marks. I can’t help myself.

Wow, if anyone out there is using hard drugs for their bachelor party, things have gotten out of hand. I would argue that putting sketchbooks in the hand of the intended group of women for this gathering does not make this guy less of a male stripper. It just makes him a rationalized stripper. A sort of a sanitized stripper, if you will. Otherwise, they could save themselves a lot of money and just invite one of the unmarried groomsmen to do the honors. Or maybe they can take their pictures home and share them with the family. All together now: NOT! Why not? Because most of us feel shame when we’ve been up to something shameful.

Take the naked guy out of the art classroom–sorry, Bob the Stripper, er, Model is sick, he couldn’t make it–and put in a floral arrangement, a bowl of fruit, or even an adorable puppy. Not the same at all, is it? Why not? Because this is not really an innocent art class. It is an excuse to giggle at a naked guy. Put in one of the groomsmen–yeah, just that thought tells us that there’s a reason the model can’t be one of the groomsmen or the younger brother of the woman putting on the shower. It is because this is not an innocent activity, so let’s just let up trying to fool anybody on that.

Uhhhhhhhh…I would not attend.

I have no problem whatsoever with nude modeling and nude art. My second year of college I worked as a studio assistant for the art department at my university. Basically, I washed paint brushes and set up chairs. There were several times that I was present for a nude sketch day and it was very tasteful and professional. The model was not treated inappropriately.

However, these women do not sound like artists, but just seem interested in looking at a naked man. There’s no way that I’m going to look my husband in the eye and explain why I want to go to something like that, despite the fact that I have trouble drawing stick figures. And there’s no way he would be ok with that. Likewise, if he were an artist, I wouldn’t have a problem with him using nude models. But he isn’t an artist, and therefore there is no legitimate reason for him to participate in something like that. As a married woman, I wouldn’t go. As someone with really high standards of fidelity, I don’t think that the soon-to-be-married bride should go either.

I’d show up after the art class with a bottle of wine and a gift.

The more I think about this idea, the more I see how vanishing is the likelihood that this “art class shower” could possibly be a good idea.

Your post is right on the money.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Wow, if anyone out there is using hard drugs for their bachelor party, things have gotten out of hand.

There are a lot of hard drug users in this world, sadly.

I would argue that putting sketchbooks in the hand of the intended group of women for this gathering does not make this guy less of a male stripper. It just makes him a rationalized stripper. A sort of a sanitized stripper, if you will. Otherwise, they could save themselves a lot of money and just invite one of the unmarried groomsmen to do the honors. Or maybe they can take their pictures home and share them with the family. All together now: NOT! Why not? Because most of us feel shame when we’ve been up to something shameful.

Wait, are we condemning all nude art now? I’m not.

Take the naked guy out of the art classroom–sorry, Bob the Stripper, er, Model is sick, he couldn’t make it–and put in a floral arrangement, a bowl of fruit, or even an adorable puppy. Not the same at all, is it?

It is if it is and it isn’t if it isn’t.

We don’t know these women; we can’t read their minds. It’s a very good bet *IMO,*that this is not done being done for artistic reasons only. But we can’t speak with *full *certainty without knowing their motivations. Also, whether artistically motivated or not, the married among them would surely be obligated to discuss this with their husbands beforehand.

 

[EasterJoy]

There are a lot of hard drug users in this world, sadly.

Wait, are we condemning all nude art now? I’m not.

It is if it is and it isn’t if it isn’t.

We don’t know these women; we can’t read their minds. It’s a very good bet *IMO,*that this is not done being done for artistic reasons only. But we can’t speak with *full *certainty without knowing their motivations. Also, whether artistically motivated or not, the married among them would surely be obligated to discuss this with their husbands beforehand.

Read the post by BlueEyedLady that I cited. She is not against actual artists using nude models–far from it–but she would not go to something like this. While she is really not concerning herself with reading anybody’s minds or motivations, she has made the common-sense observation that an artistic motivation is a remote likelihood, at best. She has identified this in any event as a poor outing for a married-woman or a soon-to-be married woman, and I have come to see the obvious wisdom of her assessment.

We don’t have to judge anybody else to say, “Uh, uh. This does not make the grade as A Good Idea.” Forget judging the people. The proposal is a bad one, and it is sensible to opt out.