Nude Modeling (yes, again)

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Pound,
you are quite clear and in fact if asking for opinions, you are receiving them whether you agree or not. Desiring to pose nude for whatever reason in front of others (not your spouse) is immoral. Ask yourself this, is this leading me to holiness as well as others who are looking at me even if it is to “draw” me. Art classes do not need “nude” models in order for budding artists to learn to draw the body. Also ask yourself this, would our Holy mother Mary do this?
I think you know the answer and you should do likewise, NO!
 
There is a saying, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whatever Pound you think is noble and artistic and beautiful is not leading to holiness. One can excuse and think anything and justify whatever but posing nude is not holy and leads yourself and others to sin.
 
Pound,
you are quite clear and in fact if asking for opinions, you are receiving them whether you agree or not. Desiring to pose nude for whatever reason in front of others (not your spouse) is immoral. Ask yourself this, is this leading me to holiness as well as others who are looking at me even if it is to “draw” me. Art classes do not need “nude” models in order for budding artists to learn to draw the body. Also ask yourself this, would our Holy mother Mary do this?
I think you know the answer and you should do likewise, NO!
There is a saying, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whatever Pound you think is noble and artistic and beautiful is not leading to holiness. One can excuse and think anything and justify whatever but posing nude is not holy and leads yourself and others to sin.
I really agree with this, especially the bolded.
 
You know, OP, there are plenty of other additional income hobbies out there.
 
If you REALLY want to shamelessly model, remember if your intentional actions cause just one person to fall into sin, it’s your fault.
Shamelessly? Okayyy, and now we’re name-calling.
Pound,
you are quite clear and in fact if asking for opinions, you are receiving them whether you agree or not. Desiring to pose nude for whatever reason in front of others (not your spouse) is immoral. Ask yourself this, is this leading me to holiness as well as others who are looking at me even if it is to “draw” me. Art classes do not need “nude” models in order for budding artists to learn to draw the body. Also ask yourself this, would our Holy mother Mary do this?
I think you know the answer and you should do likewise, NO!
As I said, a truly well done and respectfully done nude, like any beautiful art, honors God. And art featuring a model is not something just an artist does, it is hugely reliant on the model, nude or not. Helping make beautiful things certainly helps on the path to holiness.
There is nothing sinful being nude for a good purpose, only lust. And we have not established that photographing or drawing a nude necessarily arouses lust at all. It differs from person to person, just like with anything. The Passion of Christ is an excellent movie, but people who are addicted to watching or performing violent acts shouldn’t watch it. It’s fine to make wine, but some people are going to get drunk on it. In other words, it’s obviously wrong to make porn, drugs, or something obviously bad. But it is good to do something intended for good, even if it can have side affects.
Besides, two people have already kindly posted affirming from their experience that drawing a nude doesn’t cause lust!🤷
Also ask yourself this, would our Holy mother Mary do this?
I think you know the answer and you should do likewise, NO!
In practice, no. In practice, Mary also probably wouldn’t be particularly interested in being a plumber. (So I find these questions, “What would Jesus do?” or “What would Joe Blow St. do?” etc, a little silly in many contexts.) In theory, if we change to the question, however, to, “Would Mary do this if her only consideration was morality?” then yes. Mary would. Mary seems like just the sort of holy woman that would believe in the potential of nudity to be pure and good. And don’t forget, the papacy once called for nude portrayals of The Virgin.

Another thing. Some of you are saying that an artist can work just as well without a nude model. I frankly doubt many of you have ever tried, or know enough about anatomy to be able to compare a nude that had a model to one without. But this is all very theoretical. In practice, most of our more beloved nude works, from Botticelli’s Venus to
Renoir’s bathers, had models. Coincidence?
One thing further: none of you have cited any doctrine to back your claims. Reason: there isn’t any doctrine against nudity! Because: it is perfectly acceptable in certain contexts.
All of this is just you people’s opinion. And yet, if I may say so, you seem to be stating it as fact.
 
As an artist and assistant art director plus someone who works in the media, there is no good reason to do nude modeling. There are no outlets for ‘tasteful’ nudes. None. Even the so-called “artist magazines” from the 1950s that featured photos of nudes are being sold with the porn in used bookstores.

Sacred art is another story, but no one buys magazines with photos of the Sistine Chapel for kicks. Even the photography magazines that currently show how to photograph partly clothed women are just reruns of what’s gone before. Immodesty abounds.

Peace,
Ed
 
Op
I am really at a loss as how nude modeling for art students is honoring God. Seriously?
There is another angle as well. In Detroit area, there is a very expensive restaurant for the rich called the Lark. In it a a nude painting of the sister of the owner. His sister many years ago posed nude for some artist. Somehow the owner was able to get ahold of it. Instead of destroying it in honor of his sister, he proudly displaces it in his restaurant to show how modern and “sophisticated” they are. Such a nice brother. In other words, the artist that are using your body can use that anywhere at time and maybe many years later show up on the internet or even in a restaurant for the rich so the world can see. Now maybe you don’t think it is no big deal but and think that you are honoring God but really you are dishonoring yourself. Is that the kind of example you want to leave for your children later if you have them? Sadly you seem real stuck on this and think you are doing great art but all it is is really pornography at it’s finest. Ever see or listen to Hugh Hefner? He thinks he is honoring the body too. Only someone falling into exhibitionism would be drawn to this.
 
Pound Coolish–

First of all, I’ve never modeled, nude or otherwise, but I read once read an article that interviewed several nude models.

Basically, as another poster mentioned, you have to be able to hold position for a very long time, so the trick is to set yourself in a comfortable position.

My mother modeled for art classes a long, long time ago, but no nudes.

Sorry, that’s all I have to offer. 🤷
 
If you REALLY want to shamelessly model, remember if your intentional actions cause just one person to fall into sin, it’s your fault.
So that summer when I was working with my shirt off, and those girls asked to take my picture, I should have said no.:cool:
 

  1. Shamelessly? Okayyy, and now we’re name-calling.

    As I said, a truly well done and respectfully done nude, like any beautiful art, honors God. And art featuring a model is not something just an artist does, it is hugely reliant on the model, nude or not. Helping make beautiful things certainly helps on the path to holiness.
    There is nothing sinful being nude for a good purpose, only lust. And we have not established that photographing or drawing a nude necessarily arouses lust at all. It differs from person to person, just like with anything. The Passion of Christ is an excellent movie, but people who are addicted to watching or performing violent acts shouldn’t watch it. It’s fine to make wine, but some people are going to get drunk on it. In other words, it’s obviously wrong to make porn, drugs, or something obviously bad. But it is good to do something intended for good, even if it can have side affects.
    Besides, two people have already kindly posted affirming from their experience that drawing a nude doesn’t cause lust!🤷

    In practice, no. In practice, Mary also probably wouldn’t be particularly interested in being a plumber. (So I find these questions, “What would Jesus do?” or “What would Joe Blow St. do?” etc, a little silly in many contexts.) In theory, if we change to the question, however, to, “Would Mary do this if her only consideration was morality?” then yes. Mary would. Mary seems like just the sort of holy woman that would believe in the potential of nudity to be pure and good. And don’t forget, the papacy once called for nude portrayals of The Virgin.

    Another thing. Some of you are saying that an artist can work just as well without a nude model. I frankly doubt many of you have ever tried, or know enough about anatomy to be able to compare a nude that had a model to one without. But this is all very theoretical. In practice, most of our more beloved nude works, from Botticelli’s Venus to
    Renoir’s bathers, had models. Coincidence?
    One thing further: none of you have cited any doctrine to back your claims. Reason: there isn’t any doctrine against nudity! Because: it is perfectly acceptable in certain contexts.
    All of this is just you people’s opinion. And yet, if I may say so, you seem to be stating it as fact.
    It seems as if you made your mind up prior to asking for others opinions. Did you honestly expect people to say it was okay rather than you should probably not expose what should only be shown to a husband with other people?

    And no one is name calling. If you do this without any shame, it is shameless. If you have shame, well, I think that is telling in and of itself. The fact you did bring this up for others to voice their opinion reveals there is at least a small amount of concern (shame); therefore, I suggest you use caution and listen to the inner whispers from the Holy Spirit. If you ignore this and do it for whatever reason, it is an act consistent with no shame…shameless.

    If you are looking for a reason to believe this is not going to be a problem, you will find one, because you want to find one, not because it actually exists. You already knew the answer, which I suspect is why you asked in the first place.

    But this, of course, are my opinions and thoughts on the matter. It really bothers me you focused on an accurate usage of a word rather than what followed that word in my post.
 
So that summer when I was working with my shirt off, and those girls asked to take my picture, I should have said no.:cool:
Were you modeling nude? It doesn’t sound like it so I am curious how this contributes. Could you elaborate on how it does?
 
Thank you all for your carefully considered replies, they have made me think quite a bit.

Quick note: this baby took me half an hour. I may or may not keep up with this thread, it is proving time consuming. Just be forewarned. 🙂

Thank you, Edwest, but in fact there are. I have come across some myself.
Op
I am really at a loss as how nude modeling for art students is honoring God. Seriously?
There is another angle as well. In Detroit area, there is a very expensive restaurant for the rich called the Lark. In it a a nude painting of the sister of the owner. His sister many years ago posed nude for some artist. Somehow the owner was able to get ahold of it. Instead of destroying it in honor of his sister, he proudly displaces it in his restaurant to show how modern and “sophisticated” they are. Such a nice brother. In other words, the artist that are using your body can use that anywhere at time and maybe many years later show up on the internet or even in a restaurant for the rich so the world can see. Now maybe you don’t think it is no big deal but and think that you are honoring God but really you are dishonoring yourself. Is that the kind of example you want to leave for your children later if you have them? Sadly you seem real stuck on this and think you are doing great art but all it is is really pornography at it’s finest. Ever see or listen to Hugh Hefner? He thinks he is honoring the body too. Only someone falling into exhibitionism would be drawn to this.
No, about Hugh Hefner, I haven’t.
You raise a good point with the idea that nudity can be misused. If that was done without the sister’s consent, or, especially against her wishes, that is dreadful.
However, the only way that would be a problem with me myself is if the painting was focused on being sexually seductive rather than of artistic value.
This will seem weird, even mentally and perhaps sexually twisted to you. How could anyone say it would be fine to have a representation of their body up in front of anyone who cared to look?To illustrate, then, consider the Sistine Chapel. Suppose you were one of the models Michelangelo used. Obviously, no paintings one poses for ordinarily would have a chance of comparing in any way to the Sistine Chapel. We use it as an illustration because this is one of the very few nude paintings even those who insist practically all other nudity is wrong must admit is in fact acceptable or look foolish.
Would you be so ashamed that your body was on the ceiling for all to see? Perhaps you would. However, many would be proud to be part of such an achievement, that their hours of posing through cramps and itches had a part of producing something glorious, awe-inspiring, perhaps even holy, for the whole world, and that your their body was a part of it.

Nacho

There is a difference between having one’s mind made up and defending one’s opinion. Putting forth an opinion and defending it is, as you know, called a debate and done quite a bit on here. I have greatly enjoyed this discussion, and I appreciate everyone’s time, including yours. If I am proven wrong, then, I hope, will not be such blockhead as to persist.

I ignored the main of your post because my previous one took about twenty minutes as it was, and I found your post somewhat insulting. Only mildly insulting and well-intended, so perhaps I overreacted, but an insult still.

Look up shameless on Miriam Webster. It is only “shameless” if one should be a ashamed in the first place. If you sweep the floor without shame, you are not being shameless. You have no reason to be ashamed.

If my reasons are poor, then please show me how. So far, few have taken my arguments for the purity and beauty of nude modeling head on. You for instance, just expressed your arguments against nude modeling. You did not actually refute my proofs to the contrary. This is a poor way to hold a debate. If we just put forth our own opinions and arguments, the debate becomes a contest to see who has the most arguments, not to determine if the arguments are good and which premise is truly right.

One final big point to everyone arguing that all nude modeling is wrong…

Again and again, the fact has been addressed that many beloved works of classic art have been done with nude models, yet no one has responded.

Many respectable religious persons, nuns for example, have written books on classic art and even movie documentaries. They tend to include nudes that had models, such as Luncheon.

Now, there is no doctrine that can directly support what any of you are saying, none of you so far have even tried to use any. There is doctrine about lust and such of course, but little about exactly what nudity is acceptable.

In other words, these opinions that nudity and posing for is wrong are your own. Not The Church’s. You are not defending the Church’s teachings. You are defending The Teaching of Me.

And, in affect, you are saying the hundreds of artists and models and the millions who have appreciated their work through the centuries are wrong. That the pious who have made books and documentaries on them are wrong.

And that you are right.

We are all ants artistically speaking compared to Degas and all the hundreds of respected classical artists who portray art. We know nothing, nothing about art compared to them.

Suppose you were to time travel, and saw Botticelli painting the model he used, and he did use one as I have mentioned, for Venus.

Now, picture yourself walking up to Botticelli and saying, “Excuse, sir, but you should know that this painting will be adored by millions for centuries. However, though what I know about art is like a speck of dust compared to what you know, I just wanted to inform you that what you are doing is sinful and you should not make this painting.”
 
Op,
Since you are so set on this and seem to dismiss those of us that are pointing out that this is wrong, immoral and questionable, why don’t you ask a priest and see what his response is.
I think the only thing that is making you reflect is that if you really do this, you have absolutely no control of how the artist drawing you are going to use these pictures and it might not be in the great art work you are so fascinated with. Your reasoning has been one of the worst cases of the mind reasoning and justifying sin. I’ve looked at your other posts on CAF and it seems like you are drawn to the edge of ideas and morality. As one of the posters pointed out how does run an art studio, nude modeling isn’t necessary at all. The art you are so enamored with was done a long time ago and either come from already immoral societies or times where pornography was not as prevalent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, you really need to heed this before you do something before you regret the rest of your life as well as haunt you in very big ways.
 
Op,
Since you are so set on this and seem to dismiss those of us that are pointing out that this is wrong, immoral and questionable, why don’t you ask a priest and see what his response is.
I think the only thing that is making you reflect is that if you really do this, you have absolutely no control of how the artist drawing you are going to use
Exactly. So why should OP be held accountable? You , I , OP have no control. It’s not porn, it’s a drawing. Anyone with photoshop can make porn from any digital picture. Does this mean we should stop using digital cameras because a photo might end
up being used for something sinful?
And I completely disagree that it’s immoral and sinful to pose naked in a art class.
 
On the Hill
Thank you very much, I appreciate that.

Robwar

I appreciate your response, and there is much in it I feel I must consider. Though if you will forgive me for saying so, it seems that the conclusion that I am “drawn to the edge of ideas and morality.” as you put it seems a lot to assume from the very few posts I have made on here. And frankly, no one who knows me in real life has said as much. And many of my friends are Catholic, as well as my entire immediate family as well as most of my extended family is Catholic, which is far more than most can say.

And I’m also puzzled why you also think I am, to use your wording, “dismissing” all of you. It seems if I wanted to just dismiss you and pretend your opinions were worthless, I would more or less ignore you. Instead, I have done my best to reply thoroughly and more or less politely. Have my replies been so senseless or rude that you assume I am merely trying to dismiss you all rather than having honest doubts about your opinions? I suppose it’s possible, but I hope not.

Just a couple of brief last things. You say the art came from immoral societies, but the art I cited didn’t come from particularly immoral societies arguably, and also, art doesn’t necessarily reflect the morality of society. If it did, all art made in America would be buck ugly.

The second thing, I really don’t see what pornography has to do with an entirely separate thing. Porn is porn, art is art. Sure, porn does mean that some sick males can feed their sexual appetites in new ways. But just because of that, we should assume the rest of the world can’t appreciate The Birth of Venus?
 
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