Nude Modeling (yes, again)

[josh987654321]

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I googled “how to talk someone out of doing nude modeling” to find some more resources and the most interesting thing happened. Not ONE! in the first page was on how to talk women out of it, it was all on strategies and tactics of talking women INTO it!

This is one on ‘Yahoo Answers’
Yahoo Answers:

Q. I’m an artist, as hobby. I need to work on my anatomy, specifically female anatomy. the best way to do that is to draw nude figures. i have gone as far as i can using internet pictures and video, it’s just not the same as in person.

i know they have classes for that but you have to be 18 and i am only 17.

A. Get a girlfriend and ask her to pose for you. If that fails just hire a hore or stripper.

I guess the young 17 hormonal teen is just another innocent artist interested in creating beautiful artwork and not in the slightest in viewing naked women and I guess I see the utmost dignity and respect for ‘nude models’ in the answer given.

Wikihow? has a whole step system for artists and photographers getting women to pose naked.
Wikihow?:

wikihow.com/Photograph-a-First-Timer-Nude

Photographing someone nude, who has never modeled nude before, presents a special challenge. For the first timer, there are some tips and techniques that can mean the difference between a lighthearted success and a nervous and fruitless session. With a model who has never posed fully nude before, it takes a special approach.

1. Talk a bit before the shoot, but don’t overdo it. Do the shoot as soon as she’s comfortable; don’t delay unnecessarily. Don’t make a big deal of it. Greet the model warmly with a handshake and chat a bit.

2. Go slowly, but not too slowly. Start off photographing the model wearing an outfit.

3. Have her remove one item at a time, even just a zipper or button; and do anywhere from a couple to a dozen shots. Don’t do more than a dozen shots without progressing, unless you feel your model is becoming ill at ease. Props or accessories can help the model feel more comfortable and focus her attention.

4. Don’t progress to nudity as quickly as you would with an experienced model.

5. Try non-frontal angles of view. Side or back shots can be mixed in to help the model warm up.

6. Do not be hesitant or reserved. Simply instruct the model as to how you want her to pose, including her outfit.

7. The first full-frontal nude will typically occur within twenty minutes of starting to shoot. Of course it’s not necessary for your style to include frontal nudity.

8. Keep moving onward. It’s important to keep things moving so the model doesn’t have a chance to feel nervous about why you may be pausing. Keep shooting in a steady (but not rushed) fashion.

9. As soon as each pose is captured, direct a new one. By the time you shoot a model’s first nude, you may have captured over a hundred frames of her in a fifteen or twenty minute warm up, shooting an average of every 10 to 15 seconds.

10. Fire the flashes two or three seconds apart for a few frames and then switch to the next pose. By keeping a steady pace, it puts the model into a great mind set to keep working. This helps with all models, but especially first timers.

May I ask why are you not disgusted by these people Pound Coolish? I believe you have bought into these sick people’s lies in order to get what they want from you, they see you as nothing more than a means to an ends Pound Coolish.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Pound_Coolish]

Bluntly, Josh, you are jumping to conclusions. I have made it clear I do not in practice do nude modeling. I am merely interested in it. So no one is using me, as you put it. Even if I were to grant that nude modeling is just using people for sexual arousal. Of course some artists are like that. Perhaps most. But as was stated earlier by other members, most artists, even ones who do clothed figures, need knowledge of the nude.

As to your random seventeen year old, maybe he’s trying to justify satisfying his sexual desires, or maybe he’s just an ordinary artist who got a rather salacious and sexist answer on Yahoo (get a girlfriend so you can try and talk her into taking off all her clothes for you? Seriously?) But either way, you can’t generalize about these things. Besides, one doesn’t necessarily have to even pose for someone of the opposite gender if you so choose.

As for the Wiki How, it is rather blunt, but that is how instructions are supposed to be. It seems quite practical. Wouldn’t it be natural for a model exposing their body for the first time to be nervous? Why not take a gradual approach for their comfort instead of demanding they strip down right off whether they’re comfortable or not? Perhaps considerate painters of the past did something similar.

 

[vera_dicere]

I’m interested in modeling. I have very little talent for drawing people anatomically correct, sadly, though I do enjoy sketching people.
So I was simply wondering what people’s opinions are on the morality and the artistry of nude modeling, (not sketching or photographing nudes, modeling) most especially someone with some experience in it. Thank you.

Always boils down to intention, I think, and for the most part this would be reflected in Catholic theology. I do art classes and our teacher is currently organising a nude drawing session, I’m not sure if I can attend due to work committements but I’d have no problem going. I’ve also found that I’ve got a knack for drawing the nude - mainly drawing clothes and drapery is kinda hard for me at the moment.

I always carefully consider the purpose of my art and the releveance of the nude image, how they are positioned, what they are doing, nothing sexual or pornographic. Someone has to provide a model, and for them I think its just a job. Most of them are art students or tutors themselves.

 

[josh987654321]

Bluntly, Josh, you are jumping to conclusions. I have made it clear I do not in practice do nude modeling. I am merely interested in it.

And being interested in doing it is worrying I believe, because it means that you will be more susceptible to believing these people’s lies about there being nothing wrong with nude modeling about how they believe it even to be noble when it is anything but noble.

So no one is using me, as you put it. Even if I were to grant that nude modeling is just using people for sexual arousal. Of course some artists are like that. Perhaps most. But as was stated earlier by other members, most artists, even ones who do clothed figures, need knowledge of the nude.

As to your random seventeen year old, maybe he’s trying to justify satisfying his sexual desires, or maybe he’s just an ordinary artist who got a rather salacious and sexist answer on Yahoo (get a girlfriend so you can try and talk her into taking off all her clothes for you? Seriously?) But either way, you can’t generalize about these things. Besides, one doesn’t necessarily have to even pose for someone of the opposite gender if you so choose.

When I was looking for other resources in order to persuade you not to do nude modeling or be interested in it, I am still amazed at just how many sites there are all supporting it and you should see the way that the men and women talk about nude models, I assure you it’s far south from dignity and respect.

When women objectify themselves like that for art, it’s not suprising when people speak of them like objects. You and those other women are worth more respect than that.

As for the Wiki How, it is rather blunt, but that is how instructions are supposed to be. It seems quite practical. Wouldn’t it be natural for a model exposing their body for the first time to be nervous? Why not take a gradual approach for their comfort instead of demanding they strip down right off whether they’re comfortable or not? Perhaps considerate painters of the past did something similar.

Do you see any respect or dignity for the woman in there? or is it simply on how to seduce her for their own sake? no question of whether they ought to be doing it, only on how to do it and in the west, id say they are getting pretty close to perfecting the seduction of women into the pornographic industry by slowly desacralizing and objectifying their bodies. I mean if they can stand naked infront of a class of strangers for ‘art’ how much of a leap is there to do it infront of a smaller group (1 or 2) for a shorter time for more money only infront of a camera?

There was an article I caught the title of on a news feed called “Miranda Kerr: 14 'I won’t be doing any lingerie shots”

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Always boils down to intention, I think.

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” - Samuel Johnson

 

[on_the_hill]

In theory, I would be fine with it.

Me, too.

I still say you ought to do it if that’s what you want to do.

 

[josh987654321]

Me, too.

I still say you ought to do it if that’s what you want to do.

I still say your advice is very unwise in this regard ‘on_the_hill’ and I don’t understand why you would encourage women to do ‘nude modeling’ anyway, what do you hope to get out of it? Maybe when one day you have a daughter and she wants to stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw her in such vulnerability you may change your mind about the whole thing … I surely hope so for your daughters sake anyway.

Like I said before, if someone can stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw them, it’s not much of a stretch to stand naked infront of a smaller group, for a shorter time, for alot more money, only infront of a camera … welcome to the multi billion dollar pornographic industry.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[markomalley]

I still say your advice is very unwise in this regard ‘on_the_hill’ and I don’t understand why you would encourage women to do ‘nude modeling’ anyway, what do you hope to get out of it? Maybe when one day you have a daughter and she wants to stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw her in such vulnerability you may change your mind about the whole thing … I surely hope so for your daughters sake anyway.

Like I said before, if someone can stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw them, it’s not much of a stretch to stand naked infront of a smaller group, for a shorter time, for alot more money, only infront of a camera … welcome to the multi billion dollar pornographic industry.

Thank you for reading
Josh

The problem is that we end up becoming utter puritans (as in the sect that occupied the Massachusetts Bay Colony).

Do we censor the scenes in the Sistene Chapel? Do we put a fig leaf on Michelangelo’s David? Venus de Milo? Do we say that there will be no more Bottecellis? No more Allesandro Alloris? Do we, as a society, do the same as John Ashcroft in covering the Spirit of Justice?

Should we go find those works of the great masters that might possibly arouse somebody and burn them?

Or would it be more appropriate to actually do something about the pornification and over-sexualization of society so that people don’t automatically associate the form with uncontrollable sexual desire?

 

[Joannm]

I was an art major and I took nude drawing classes in a Catholic university. There was nothing sexual about it. In fact most of the time we were more focused on getting the proportions or the muscles right so the professor wouldn’t come over to our easel and literally slash his charcoal across our rendition. Our models were not erotic in any sense. In fact most of them were no where near even what magazine models look like. We also used an anatomy book, used in medical schools, to assist us in our drawing. Although I don’t paint nudes, it did give me a basis for painting people with clothes on.

Did we feel we were exploiting these models? No, not really. Most of them were students from neighboring art schools who were trying to meet their bills or buy art supplies. Others were professional artistic models who only did classroom modeling. I would say most were serious about art and sometimes during breaks they would robe and walk around and comment on our renderings from an artistic point of view.

Yes, there might be a fine line between authentic artistic nudes and pornographic nude modeling, but it is up to the artist or the class professor to maintain the dignity of the model and respect for the art.

BTW, I always like to make the point that Michelangelo probably never used female models for his work. If he did then his female nudes wouldn’t look like construction workers with coconuts for breasts.

 

[josh987654321]

What you guys are encouraging men or women to do in the name of ‘art’ (nude modeling, standing naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw them) is just wrong, I don’t know why you can’t see that. I will try and think of other ways I can explain it to you so that you may understand.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Brendan_64]

I thought we covered up due to our shame and embarrassment as a result of our alienation from God as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve. We are made in God’s image so we cover up out of our shame of alienating ourselves from Him. We are ashamed of how we use our bodies, bearing in mind that our very bodies are made in His image. The guilt we (quite rightly) feel is hardwired into corrupted nature as a result of original sin.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I was an art major and I took nude drawing classes in a Catholic university. There was nothing sexual about it. In fact most of the time we were more focused on getting the proportions or the muscles right so the professor wouldn’t come over to our easel and literally slash his charcoal across our rendition. Our models were not erotic in any sense. In fact most of them were no where near even what magazine models look like. We also used an anatomy book, used in medical schools, to assist us in our drawing. Although I don’t paint nudes, it did give me a basis for painting people with clothes on.

Did we feel we were exploiting these models? No, not really. Most of them were students from neighboring art schools who were trying to meet their bills or buy art supplies. Others were professional artistic models who only did classroom modeling. I would say most were serious about art and sometimes during breaks they would robe and walk around and comment on our renderings from an artistic point of view.

Yes, there might be a fine line between authentic artistic nudes and pornographic nude modeling, but it is up to the artist or the class professor to maintain the dignity of the model and respect for the art.

BTW, I always like to make the point that Michelangelo probably never used female models for his work. If he did then his female nudes wouldn’t look like construction workers with coconuts for breasts.

I completely agree with this (my thoughts exactly on Michelangelo’s women ), and with KEP1983’s posts.

 

[on_the_hill]

I was an art major and I took nude drawing classes in a **Catholic university. **

Thank you.

 

[mikekle]

I still say your advice is very unwise in this regard ‘on_the_hill’ and I don’t understand why you would encourage women to do ‘nude modeling’ anyway, what do you hope to get out of it? Maybe when one day you have a daughter and she wants to stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw her in such vulnerability you may change your mind about the whole thing … I surely hope so for your daughters sake anyway.

Like I said before, if someone can stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw them, it’s not much of a stretch to stand naked infront of a smaller group, for a shorter time, for alot more money, only infront of a camera … welcome to the multi billion dollar pornographic industry.

Thank you for reading
Josh

You are forgetting one HUGE difference between basic nude modeling and porn…with nude modeling, all that is required is for the model to stand in one spot, but with porn, the requirements are to engage in sexual intercourse and other crazy positions in front of a video camera…with another partner. That is a pretty big difference IMO.

 

[dshix]

You are forgetting one HUGE difference between basic nude modeling and porn…with nude modeling, all that is required is for the model to stand in one spot, but with porn, the requirements are to engage in sexual intercourse and other crazy positions in front of a video camera…with another partner. That is a pretty big difference IMO.

Uh, no. The definition of porn is any image that objectifies the human person in a sexual manner. Even writing can be porn if it causes a lewd mental image in the mind of the reader.

 

[josh987654321]

When it comes to ‘art’ where do you guys draw the lines? are there any? Is there anything you guys will not do or justify in the name of ‘art’?

 

[josh987654321]

I was an art major and I took nude drawing classes in a Catholic university.

I guess I’m not surprised by your advocation of this than, I would bet all those people who try to justify this are or have been involved in it directly or indirectly in some way.

Maybe if the nude model in question was a daughter of any of you, you would probably change your mind about the whole thing, that’s the hypocrisy of it, it’s okay to encourage other women to do it, but I bet you would not be happy if it was your own daughter/son or husband/wife.

 

[on_the_hill]

When it comes to ‘art’ where do you guys draw the lines? are there any? Is there anything you guys will not do or justify in the name of ‘art’?

Yes. As a matter of fact, a about a week ago someone offered me $3,500 if I would send him nude pictures of myself. I’ll spare you the suspense. I didn’t respond. A couple days ago he followed up with an offer of $500 up front as a good-faith offer. I didn’t respond.

It was probably a troll/scam, anyway. But $3,500 would make a nice payment on a new car…I’m kidding.

There is a difference between art and porn. It’s a lot easier to view the world in black & white, and perhaps more comforting. But the world has never been black & white, and what we have to do is discern the differences, the boundaries that are often ill-defined.

 

[on_the_hill]

I guess I’m not surprised by your advocation of this than, I would bet all those people who try to justify this are or have been involved in it directly or indirectly in some way.

Maybe if the nude model in question was a daughter of any of you, you would probably change your mind about the whole thing, that’s the hypocrisy of it, it’s okay to encourage other women to do it, but I bet you would not be happy if it was your own daughter/son or husband/wife.

If one of my daughters wanted to do it…I think that would be o.k. with me, honestly. I don’t know. Every situation is different. I’m not opposed to the idea in theory.

 

[josh987654321]

Yes. As a matter of fact, a about a week ago someone offered me $3,500 if I would send him nude pictures of myself. I’ll spare you the suspense. I didn’t respond. A couple days ago he followed up with an offer of $500 up front as a good-faith offer. I didn’t respond.

Would you ever put a price on it? or are there some things money can’t make you do, some things money can’t buy?

It was probably a troll/scam, anyway. But $3,500 would make a nice payment on a new car…I’m kidding.

lol … phew.

There is a difference between art and porn. It’s a lot easier to view the world in black & white, and perhaps more comforting. But the world has never been black & white, and what we have to do is discern the differences, the boundaries that are often ill-defined.

Sure, I believe getting/paying someone to stand naked infront of a group of strangers while they draw you is first and foremost detrimental to the nude model doing it.

It ‘gets them used’ to being naked infront of strangers, it desacrlizes the human body, it objectifies the person, you don’t see any issues with someone comfortably stripping down infront of a group of strangers? would you like to have a husband/wife, who felt comfortable stripping down naked infront of other people? would you like to visit an art class where everyone watches … studies! your husband/wife while they lay there naked?

I wonder how your marital intimacy would go knowing that dozens of people have seen up close everything you have.

If one of my daughters wanted to do it…I think that would be o.k. with me, honestly. I don’t know. Every situation is different. I’m not opposed to the idea in theory.

So I guess when your daughter one day strips down naked on a public beach and you say “you’ve gone too far” she can always say “mum, what’s the big deal? I do the same thing in ‘art’ class and your fine with that.”

If I were dating a girl who was doing ‘nude modeling’ I would be gone faster than you can say “Jack Robinson” because I wouldn’t be prepared to share my beloved future wife with dozens of other men & women like that. Even the thought of having a beloved spouse who would objectify and show off her body like that to other men and women under the proviso of ‘art’ is repulsive to me. I am shocked that people would be ‘cool’ with that sort of thing. I would call it a mild form of adultery, it’s certainly a betrayal of marital intimacy I believe. I assure you I would not be ‘cool’ with it and I can assure you most other guys wouldn’t either, sure some might say they would, but I bet the tables would turn quickly if they were in the spouse of the nude models shoes.

Thank you for reading
Josh