Nullification-it continues

[srfnolen]

If you have followed my thread you will remember my husband is working through a decree of nullification. Papers have been submitted and witnesses have been asked to complete their forms…and there we stop. The witnesses are not overjoyed one bit by the forms they must complete. All of the witnesses are family members including my mother-in-law. Weve heard everything from “Who do ‘they’ think they are” to “I don’t want to say anything bad about my son.” (My husband has already stated there was guilt on both parties during his previous marrriage; it’s already “out there” so to speak.) We even heard “They’re not G-d!” We have resigned ourselves to the fact the prior spouse will not complete her form and we may get one from my mother-in-law now that my husband has tried to explain things to her. Any advice for myself and/or my husband and his family would be greatly appreciated.

I personally have told my husband’s mother that there is a difference between a promise and a covenant and the tribunal is trying to get all the facts including a description of what was in the couple’s hearts before and at the time of the marriage. They wish to see if it was actually a valid marriage from the start. Pray for us please. Thanks in advance for any helps.

 

[pianistclare]

If you have followed my thread you will remember my husband is working through a decree of nullification. Papers have been submitted and witnesses have been asked to complete their forms…and there we stop. The witnesses are not overjoyed one bit by the forms they must complete. All of the witnesses are family members including my mother-in-law. Weve heard everything from “Who do ‘they’ think they are” to “I don’t want to say anything bad about my son.” (My husband has already stated there was guilt on both parties during his previous marrriage; it’s already “out there” so to speak.) We even heard “They’re not G-d!” We have resigned ourselves to the fact the prior spouse will not complete her form and we may get one from my mother-in-law now that my husband has tried to explain things to her. Any advice for myself and/or my husband and his family would be greatly appreciated.

I personally have told my husband’s mother that there is a difference between a promise and a covenant and the tribunal is trying to get all the facts including a description of what was in the couple’s hearts before and at the time of the marriage. They wish to see if it was actually a valid marriage from the start. Pray for us please. Thanks in advance for any helps.

Will do. Remind them that what they write is strictly confidential.

 

[srfnolen]

Thank you kindly. We will remind them about the confidentiality. SN

 

[Lenten_ashes]

If you have followed my thread you will remember my husband is working through a decree of nullification. Papers have been submitted and witnesses have been asked to complete their forms…and there we stop. The witnesses are not overjoyed one bit by the forms they must complete. All of the witnesses are family members including my mother-in-law. Weve heard everything from “Who do ‘they’ think they are” to “I don’t want to say anything bad about my son.” (My husband has already stated there was guilt on both parties during his previous marrriage; it’s already “out there” so to speak.) We even heard “They’re not G-d!” We have resigned ourselves to the fact the prior spouse will not complete her form and we may get one from my mother-in-law now that my husband has tried to explain things to her. Any advice for myself and/or my husband and his family would be greatly appreciated.

I personally have told my husband’s mother that there is a difference between a promise and a covenant and the tribunal is trying to get all the facts including a description of what was in the couple’s hearts before and at the time of the marriage. They wish to see if it was actually a valid marriage from the start. Pray for us please. Thanks in advance for any helps.

They can also conduct phone conversations with the witnesses if forms aren’t their thing.

You have a correct understanding of the process. The Church isn’t claiming to be God, but they do have the authority to investigate and see if the marriage was valid in the first place - as most are not, sadly.

I know from experience that this is a painful and usually long process…but some positive comes out of it - real closure, if you will, on a spiritual level. Pray for patience and understanding.

 

[Convert1]

Having been through this process myself and obtaining an affirmative of annulment, I understand how difficult this can be.

There is a wonderful support forum on CAF. It’s called “Annulment Support Forum” Dan, the canon lawyer, follows most of the threads and he was a great resource for me during my process. I’m sure if you search it, you can get to it. Everyone is going through the same thing so it is comforting to exchange experiences and follow each other.

Good luck to you and God Bless!

 

[ktmeyer]

My family reacted similarly. And my ex spouse didn’t fill out the forms either, although he wasn’t opposed to the annulment. It still went through

And my explanation to people was that the Church wasn’t changing that we had been legally married, just deciding if it was a sacrament. My relatives weren’t Catholic so really didn’t care if the marriage was a sacrament, so that kind of helped. I just kept explaining that the annulment didn’t mean we hadn’t be legally married, and it didn’t make the kids illigitamate, etc, it was just looking a the reasons things didn’t work out. Sigh.

 

[WilliamE]

The witnesses are not overjoyed one bit by the forms they must complete.

While I certainly don’t recommend this course of action, my cousin found herself with the same problem - witnesses that didn’t want to be bothered. So…she filled out the forms herself and had her “witnesses” sign them. Problem solved - at least as far as she was concerned.

 

[Anne1964]

Please be honest throughout this process.

I wouldn’t worry about your husband’s former spouse not completing a questionnaire. It is quite common for the former spouse to not participate in the process.

Does your husband have anyone else he can ask to be a witness? Friends?

 

[pianistclare]

Yes. Your Advocate should be able to explain thus further. God bless.

 

[SerraSemper]

While I certainly don’t recommend this course of action, my cousin found herself with the same problem - witnesses that didn’t want to be bothered. So…she filled out the forms herself and had her “witnesses” sign them. Problem solved - at least as far as she was concerned.

Definitely don’t go this route. As a judge, I have tossed cases like this.

 

[SuperHappy]

While I certainly don’t recommend this course of action, my cousin found herself with the same problem - witnesses that didn’t want to be bothered. So…she filled out the forms herself and had her “witnesses” sign them. Problem solved - at least as far as she was concerned.

Really? I would think that in church is the one place where honesty is tantamount.

 

[pianistclare]

Really? I would think that in church is the one place where honesty is tantamount.

Why would you assume she would lie?
Surely HER witnesses wouldn’t lie for her.
What would they have to gain ?

 

[dans0622]

While I certainly don’t recommend this course of action, my cousin found herself with the same problem - witnesses that didn’t want to be bothered. So…she filled out the forms herself and had her “witnesses” sign them. Problem solved - at least as far as she was concerned.

Fascinating. I’ll have to keep that possibility in mind.

Dan

 

[dans0622]

If you have followed my thread you will remember my husband is working through a decree of nullification. Papers have been submitted and witnesses have been asked to complete their forms…and there we stop. The witnesses are not overjoyed one bit by the forms they must complete. All of the witnesses are family members including my mother-in-law. Weve heard everything from “Who do ‘they’ think they are” to “I don’t want to say anything bad about my son.” (My husband has already stated there was guilt on both parties during his previous marrriage; it’s already “out there” so to speak.) We even heard “They’re not G-d!” We have resigned ourselves to the fact the prior spouse will not complete her form and we may get one from my mother-in-law now that my husband has tried to explain things to her. Any advice for myself and/or my husband and his family would be greatly appreciated.

I personally have told my husband’s mother that there is a difference between a promise and a covenant and the tribunal is trying to get all the facts including a description of what was in the couple’s hearts before and at the time of the marriage. They wish to see if it was actually a valid marriage from the start. Pray for us please. Thanks in advance for any helps.

Hello,

Would the proposed witnesses be more willing to provide oral testimony? Would they be willing to use the questions as a guide and, in a narrative way, provide their insights? There can be some flexibility. Ultimately, however, the witnesses are free to do as they please.

Dan

 

[SuperHappy]

Why would you assume she would lie?
Surely HER witnesses wouldn’t lie for her.
What would they have to gain ?

I was speaking of the poster who said that her cousin wrote it out herself and the “witnesses” signed it.

Sorry for any confusion about which post I was responding to. I didn’t mean the OP.

 

[WilliamE]

Definitely don’t go this route. As a judge, I have tossed cases like this.

While again stressing that I do not recommend this particular strategy, in my cousin’s case, she was successful in getting her previous marriage annulled.

 

[WilliamE]

Really? I would think that in church is the one place where honesty is tantamount.

In my cousin’s case, her future in-laws wanted their son to get married in the Church. (It was my cousin who had the previous marriage.) Neither my cousin nor her future husband really cared about Church teachings. To them the annulment process was just a pointless exercise in paperwork. They just wanted in done as quickly and painlessly as possible.

 

[SuperHappy]

In my cousin’s case, her future in-laws wanted their son to get married in the Church. (It was my cousin who had the previous marriage.) Neither my cousin nor her future husband really cared about Church teachings. To them the annulment process was just a pointless exercise in paperwork. They just wanted in done as quickly and painlessly as possible.

I guess that it doesn’t really make sense to me as a follower and believer to do something dishonest like that and to see it as just “an exercise in paperwork.”

Why do people even want to marry in the Church if they don’t even believe or care? Even if the parents really want a couple to marry in the Church, it still makes no sense to me.

It’s just like the parents who want to baptize their child but don’t attend church and don’t have any intention of raising their child in the Church. I don’t understand that either. It seems sinful to promise to raise a child in church and then just forget it the next week and then not come back until they are 8 or 9 and need First Communion.

I believe and I live my beliefs and I have never understood those who want to do things in the Church just to do them without any real faith in it.

 

[SerraSemper]

While again stressing that I do not recommend this particular strategy, in my cousin’s case, she was successful in getting her previous marriage annulled.

The reasons we would toss this out would be things like collusion, prompting false memories, etc. That is why ONLY the Judge instructor or auditor is permitted to deal with witnesses.

 

[WilliamE]

I guess that it doesn’t really make sense to me as a follower and believer to do something dishonest like that and to see it as just “an exercise in paperwork.”

Why do people even want to marry in the Church if they don’t even believe or care? Even if the parents really want a couple to marry in the Church, it still makes no sense to me.

It’s just like the parents who want to baptize their child but don’t attend church and don’t have any intention of raising their child in the Church. I don’t understand that either. It seems sinful to promise to raise a child in church and then just forget it the next week and then not come back until they are 8 or 9 and need First Communion.

I believe and I live my beliefs and I have never understood those who want to do things in the Church just to do them without any real faith in it.

In my cousin’s case, her husband came from a family that had been Catholic for generations. Most of their relatives, friends, and neighbors also came from a long line of Catholics. They lived in the Catholic part of their city. The Church was a large part of their culture. They probably wanted to maintain their place in that culture - to remain part of the “tribe,” if you will.