Nullification of orders?

  • Thread starter Thread starter C.Ray
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

C.Ray

Guest
A marriage can be annulled if those attempting it have serious impediments. But can holy orders be annulled for similar reasons?

I am thinking about occasions in which the person receiving the orders has unconfessed grave sins, or has lied in confession or is withholding information about themselves which would exclude them from orders.

Do such persons actually receive holy orders?
 
I wonder because if such persons are priests, then that would put in question the validity of the sacraments they administer.

This leads me to suspect they DO receive the orders, because if they did not then many faithful would be put in a precarious position indeed.
 
C.Ray said:
But can holy orders be annulled for similar reasons?
Click to expand...
Here are the canons pertaining to nullity of orders:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P6T.HTM

CASES FOR DECLARING THE NULLITY OF SACRED ORDINATION (Cann. 1708 - 1712)

Can. 1708 The cleric himself, the ordinary to whom the cleric is subject, or the ordinary in whose diocese the cleric was ordained has the right to challenge the validity of sacred ordination.

Can. 1709 §1. The libellus must be sent to the competent congregation which will decide whether the congregation of the Roman Curia itself or a tribunal designated by it must handle the case.

§2. Once the libellus has been sent, the cleric is forbidden to exercise orders by the law itself.

Can. 1710 If the congregation refers the case to a tribunal, the canons on trials in general and on the ordinary contentious trial are to be observed unless the nature of the matter precludes it and without prejudice to the prescripts of this title.

Can. 1711 In these cases the defender of the bond possesses the same rights and is bound by the same duties as the defender of the marriage bond.

Can. 1712 After a second sentence has confirmed the nullity of sacred ordination, the cleric loses all rights proper to the clerical state and is freed from all obligations.
 
It’s not uncommon for men to seek to be dispensed from their promise of celibacy and leave the clerical state (two different things incidentally) but nullification is a different (and far more complex) thing altogether.

The starting point is that orders, just like other sacraments, are considered to be valid unless and until it’s proved otherwise. It is possible though, as with a marriage, for an ordination to be annulled. Obviously, the candidate needs to be a baptised male who is physically capable of fatherhood and the ordination needs to have been conducted by a bishop (not necessarily the candidate’s bishop) who intended to ordain and used the proper formula in the Rite - all of these would be presumed absent very good evidence to the contrary. They don’t have to have been ordained a deacon first (or even have been in a seminary) for the ordination to be valid.

Beyond that, most irregularities or impediments wouldn’t suffice for nullity since they (in theory at least) it’s possible to obtain a dispensation - a mental illness might if it were serious enough. In almost all cases though I’d say that anyone trying to seek a declaration of nullity in relation to sacred orders is likely to go (or to be pushed to go down) the route of simply seeking release from the clerical state and dispensation from celibacy. Even that though is far from straightforward and requires a lot of paperwork so applying for a declaration of nullity (other than on obvious grounds) would be an incredibly difficult exercise.
 
Yes, the sacrament of Holy Orders can be annulled. It has pre-requirements and there are impediments. And, similar to a marriage case the defender of the bond may introduce an argument for the validity of the sacrament.
 
C.Ray said:
A marriage can be annulled if those attempting it have serious impediments. But can holy orders be annulled for similar reasons?

I am thinking about occasions in which the person receiving the orders has unconfessed grave sins, or has lied in confession or is withholding information about themselves which would exclude them from orders.

Do such persons actually receive holy orders?
Click to expand...
CIC
Canon 1040. Those affected by any impediment, whether perpetual, which is called an irregularity, or simple, are prevented from receiving orders. The only impediments incurred, however, are those contained in the following canons.

Canon 1041. The following are irregular for receiving orders:
1/ a person who labors under some form of amentia or other psychic illness due to which, after experts have been consulted, he is judged unqualified to fulfill the ministry properly;
2/ a person who has committed the delict of apostasy, heresy, or schism;
3/ a person who has attempted marriage, even only civilly, while either impeded personally from entering marriage by a matrimonial bond, sacred orders, or a public perpetual vow of chastity, or with a woman bound by a valid marriage or restricted by the same type of vow;
4/ a person who has committed voluntary homicide or procured a completed abortion and all those who positively cooperated in either;
5/ a person who has mutilated himself or another gravely and maliciously or who has attempted suicide;
6/ a person who has placed an act of orders reserved to those in the order of episcopate or presbyterate while either lacking that order or prohibited from its exercise by some declared or imposed canonical penalty.
…
Canon 1049 … §3. A general dispensation from irregularities and impediments to receive orders is valid for all the orders.
Click to expand...
http://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur394.htm
 
Last edited:
InThePew said:
male who is physically capable of fatherhood
Click to expand...
How do they check this if the man is supposed to be chaste and celibate?

Or does this just mean, “He has male organs and they seem to be in working order”? And wouldn’t that leave out a man who suffered some accident or illness and became impotent at some point before his ordination? There is a deceased priest currently up for sainthood who was paralyzed quadriplegic in an accident during seminary before he was ordained. Although I don’t have the full medical knowledge of his situation, I would have presumed he was likely unable to have intercourse after his accident.

Edited to add, I just checked online and it said he did have to obtain a dispensation from Pope Paul VI to become the world’s first quadriplegic priest.
 
Last edited:
No sacrament can be annulled. But all of them can be attempted in some defective manner that would make them null.
 
It’s my understanding that impotency (at least today) will bar you from the priesthood. I don’t know for certain if that’s always been the case, but it definitely is today.
 
I am still a bit mystified as to how this would be checked on when the person is in formation for the priesthood.

There is a requirement for a marriage that the man cannot be impotent, but they usually just take his word for it (you don’t have to give the priest a medical document proving that everything works), and because marriages enjoy the presumption of validity, that’s the end of the matter unless one party later comes back seeking annulment on the grounds of the man being impotent.

I guess in the case of a paralyzed priest, there would be some medical tests or evidence there, and maybe the Pope can grant a dispensation?
 
Last edited:
I think someone once told me that on top of the psychological exams that potential seminarians go through, they also go through a medical exam. That’s probably where they check for impotence, but I don’t know how they do that.
 
This is false.

No such test for impotence exist, and no seminarian would be put to it, if it did.

Deacon Christopher
 
That’s strange, I think it was a priest or someone who wanted to enter seminary who told me that, but maybe I heard him wrong or he was neither a priest nor seminarian.
 
I went through the tests (successfully) to enter the seminary and there was nothing of the sort.

Years later I went through additional tests to enter diaconal formation, as well.

At the very most (and I don’t even see that as occurring) perhaps someone might ask, “are you capable of marital acts?” Candidates would be taken at their word.

The same holds true of questioning candidates about homosexual inclination, as well.

The psychological tests are trying to uncover whether a man can live the challenging (and oftentimes lonely) life of a priest. Whether he has anger, addictive, or control issues. Those sorts of things.

Deacon Christopher
 
Last edited:
C.Ray said:
Do such persons actually receive holy orders?
Click to expand...
It is called a sacrament in service of others; the personal worthiness of the minister is minimally relevant. Priests go through 4 years of training and psychological evaluations. There is really no possiblity of nullity due to misunderstanding the nature of Holy Orders.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
And wouldn’t that leave out a man who suffered some accident or illness and became impotent at some point before his ordination?
Click to expand...
An early council decreed that a voluntarily castrated man be barred from orders, while an involuntary victim was not barred.
Diaconia said:
No such test for impotence exist, and no seminarian would be put to it, if it did.
Click to expand...
I’d go farther, Father Deacon, and state that no such test could exist and be implemented, as it would require the candidate to climax to determine the issue. 🤯😱
 
Geoffrey said:
I have a question: why is it that during Communion the Catholic church doesn’t give out the wine which stands for the blood of Jesus, but the Priests take it?
Click to expand...
  1. You’re off topic. Please start new threads when you want to change topic.
  2. You’re incorrect. At many Masses in USA and in some other countries, the church does offer communion to the Mass attendees in both the form of the Body of Christ (consecrated host) and Precious Blood (consecrated wine). I probably see Communion offered in both forms at 3/4 of the Masses I attend in USA.
  3. In cases where the Precious Blood is not offered to the congregation, it’s generally for a logistical reason, such as having too large of a crowd to make it practical to distribute the Precious Blood from many cups, or having too few priests/ deacons/ EMHCs to administer the Precious Blood to all, or concerns about communicable disease epidemics from people sharing a common cup. In any event, even when the consecrated wine is not offered, each communicant still receives the Precious Blood if they receive the consecrated host, because each host, once consecrated, contains Christ’s Blood as well as Christ’s Body.
 
Last edited:
1ke said:
who is physically capable of fatherhood
Click to expand...
Not offhand (other than my Canon Law notes) although given that it’s a ground for nullity in marriage it would seem logical that it would equally apply to Holy Orders. There’s also been a fair amount of discussion around whether a vasectomy is an impediment. That said, just to be clear, there is no test for this - other than the regular medical examination prior to entry into the seminary.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top