Sorry PCM, the fact is that I honestly don’t have a definitive answer. Probably because since it’s not something that is really all that much of interest to me as a Catholic except when I try to figure out where a given n-C evangelist (usually trying to witness to me) is coming from.
Which makes me wonder why you’re posting here, except possibly to find some other avenue to attack Protestants about. If you’re not even willing to suggest an idea as to how we might determine the answer to the question, why are you posting?
Incorrect. Catholicism says that Protestants have the truth, just not the fullness of divinely revealed truth. God works through Protestants for sure but what truth they have is from God revealing through the Catholic church, indeed.
This is no different from most Protestants. I believe that you have the truth
on certain things, but where you differ from my beliefs, assuming I believe my beliefs to be in line with God’s truth, you are in error. He has chosen not to reveal these truths to you at this time.
The question is – how substantial (or insubstantial) do these things have to be before it’s considered another denomination?
That you say Protestants “focus on belief” I’ve always wondered which one of the many Protestant denominations fullfills 2 Tim 2:15? "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." (NIV)
Since it wasn’t directed toward denominations (there were none at the time), but toward individual believers, this really doesn’t apply. The indication of the passage is that
each believer should learn appropriately. It’s not a denominational thing.
Differing authority divides Protestant denominations and city-churches. All of them say they follow sola scriptura but they also follow their self-imposed authority i.e., the deacon board, elder board, Pastoral board, bishops, and or whoever is the leader of the particular city-church and or denomination with overseers and those in authority.
Actually, the authority in the case of most of those is Christ. The thing is, we don’t all agree about what he’s saying. And no, having a pope doesn’t solve this – I’ve heard (and am still hearing) contradictory explanations of even important things, from different Roman Catholics. And what about all the schisms in the early church? The Roman Catholic church emerged from those, but prior to that, they were united with the others they schism’d with. Now some (Roman Catholics) are loyal to the pope, some have their own pope-like figure (Assyrian Church of the East, for example) and some reject the need for a single earthly authority altogether (Orthodox, Protestants, etc).
When Protestants disagree about doctrine they split; I was a fourteen year member of a Baptist church that broke from another because of folk music of all things in the worship service.
And when the eastern patriarchs disagreed with the Roman patriarch about doctrine, they split. They all excommunicated each other and whatnot, and each side claims the other is not legitimate.
It sounds to me very much like PC Master is starting to see why individual Christians require a Magisterium—which God, in His wisdom, supplies. :yup:
Actually, I’m seeing why the Roman Catholic version of such is a dismal failure. Sure, the concept of central authority is a good one…but with all the schisms and such that have happened, there’s really no way I can believe the Roman Catholic version was supplied by God.
Pc-Master,
Yes, you’re right about needing a definition of what constitutes a denomination. The objective of this thread was to figure out if the 33,000 number is correct and there’s no way to do that without knowing what exactly a denomination is.
Do independent smallish storefront churches and groups like the Tomball Cowboy Church count as their own denominations?
Well, honestly, I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that some of the divisions given thus far are ridiculous. For instance, the various Baptist conventions are made up of churches which are not completely in agreement with each other. That said, all of them, including those from the other Baptist conventions are in agreement on the major issues of faith. Making a division there would be like making a division based on whether you believe people should say Rosary prayers.
