Number of Protestant Denominations

[Teflon93]

Here is the proof of my claim—Luther in his own words, from “Against the Robbing and Murdering Hordes of Peasants”:

Since the peasants, then, have brought both God and man down upon them and are already so many times guilty of death in body and soul, since they submit to no court and wait for no verdict, but only rage on, I** must instruct the worldly governors how they are to act** in the matter with a clear conscience.

First. I will not oppose a ruler who, even though be does not tolerate the Gospel, will smite and punish these peasants without offering to submit the case to judgement. For he is within his rights, since the peasants are not contending any longer for the Gospel, but have become faithless, perjured, disobedient, rebellious murderers, robbers and blasphemers, whom even heathen rulers have the right and power to punish; nay, it is their duty to punish them, for it is just for this purpose that they bear the sword, and are ‘the ministers of God upon him that doeth evil’.

But if the ruler is a Christian and tolerates the Gospel, so that the peasants have no appearance of a case against him, he should proceed with fear. First he must take the matter to God, confessing that we have deserved these things, and remembering that God may, perhaps, have thus aroused the devil as a punishment upon all Germany. Then he should humbly pray for help against the devil, for ‘we are battling not only against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in the air’, and this must be attacked with prayer. Then, when our hearts are so turned to God that we are ready to let his divine will be done, whether he will or will not have us to be princes and lords, we must go beyond our duty, and offer the mad peasants an opportunity to come to terms, even though they are not worthy of it. Finally, if that does not help, then swiftly grasp the sword.

For a prince and lord must remember in this case that he is God’s minister and the servant of his wrath (Romans XIII), to whom the sword is committed for use upon such fellows, and that he sins as greatly against God, if he does not punish and protect and does not fulfil the duties of his office, as does one to whom the sword has not been committed when he commits a murder. If he can punish and does not - even though the punishment consist in the taking of life and the shedding of blood - then he is guilty of all the murder and all the evil which these fellows commit, because, by wilful neglect of the divine command, he permits them to practice their wickedness, though he can prevent it, and is in duty bound to do so. **Here, then, there is no time for sleeping; no place for patience or mercy. It is the time of the sword, not the day of grace. **

The rulers, then, should go on unconcerned, and with a good conscience lay about them as long as their hearts still beat. It is to their advantage that the peasants have a bad conscience and an unjust cause, and that any peasant who is killed is lost in body and soul and is eternally the devil’s. But the rulers have a good conscience and a just cause; and can, therefore, say to God with all assurance of heart, ‘Behold, my God, thou hast appointed me prince or lord, of this I can have no doubt; and though hast committed to me the sword over the evildoers (Romans XIII). It is thy Word, and cannot lie.** I must fulfill my office, or forfeit thy grace**. It is also plain that these peasants have deserved death many times over, in thine eyes and the eyes of the world, and have been committed to me for punishment. If it be thy will that I be slain by them, and that my rulership be taken from me and destroyed, so be it: thy will be done. So shall I die and be destroyed fulfilling thy commandment and thy Word, and shall be found obedient to thy commandment and my office. Therefore will I punish and smite as long as my heart bears. Thou wilt judge and make things right.’

 

[Teflon93]

Thus it may be that one who is killed fighting on the ruler’s side may be a true martyr in the eyes of God, if he fights with such a conscience as I have just described, for he is in God’s Word and is obedient to him. On the other hand, one who perishes on the peasants’ side is an eternal brand of hell, for he bears the sword against God’s Word and is disobedient to him, and is a member of the devil. And even though it happens that the peasants gain the upper hand (which God forbid!) for to God all things are possible, and we do not know whether it may be his will, through the devil, to destroy all order and rule and cast the world upon a desolate heap, as a prelude to the Last Day, which cannot be far off - nevertheless, they may die without worry and go to the scaffold with a good conscience, who are found exercising their office of the sword. They may leave to the devil the kingdom of the world, and take in exchange the everlasting kingdom. Strange times, these, when a prince can win heaven with bloodshed, better than other men with prayer!

Finally, there is another thing that ought to move the rulers. The peasants are not content to be themselves the devil’s own, but they force and compel many good people against their wills to join their devilish league, and so make them partakers of all of their own wickedness and damnation. For anyone who consents to what they do, goes to the devil with them, and is guilty of all the evil deeds that they commit; though he has to do this because he is so weak in faith that he does not resist them. A pious Christian ought to suffer a hundred deaths, rather than give a hair’s breadth of consent to the peasants’ cause. O how many martyrs could now be made by the bloodthirsty peasants and the murdering prophets! Now the rulers ought to have mercy on these prisoners of the peasants, and if they had no other reason to use the sword, with a good conscience, against the peasants, and to risk their own lives and property in fighting them, there would be reason enough, and more than enough, in this - that thus they would be rescuing and helping these souls, whom the peasants have forced into their devilish league and mho, without willing it, are sinning so horribly, and who must be damned. For truly these souls are in purgatory; nay, in the bonds of hell and the devil.

Therefore, dear lords, here is a place where you can release, rescue, help. Have mercy on these poor people [whom the peasants have compelled to join them]. Stab, smite, slay, whoever can. If you die in doing it, well for you! A more blessed death can never be yours, for you die obeying the divine Word and commandment in Romans XIII, and in loving service of your neighbour, whom you are rescuing from the bonds of hell and of the devil. And so I beg everyone who can to flee from the peasants as from the devil himself; those who do not flee, I pray that God will enlighten and convert. As for those who are not to be converted, God grant that they may have neither fortune nor success. To this let every pious Christian say Amen! For this prayer is right and good, and pleases God; this I know. If anyone think this too hard, let him remember that rebellion is intolerable and that the destruction of the world is to be expected every hour.

So you be the judge if Luther here was responsible for the slaughter that followed.

It is interesting of course to note that the peasants in this case weren’t rebelling at random but were inspired by Luther, and felt deeply betrayed when he published his tract, playing on his name in German by essentially calling him, “Martin Liar”.

It should be noted that the man who claimed to be striking a blow for religious liberty was so intolerant of those who disagreed with him that he urged their slaughter. This intolerance was the common currency of the Reformers, who claimed religious liberty for themselves and went to great lengths to prohibit it for others.

One reason that even more Protestant denominations did not appear in the 16th century was that the Reformers were utterly ruthless in suppressing dissent.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I repeat my earlier invitation to you to name some of these unlucky people. (The peasants do not count–they were killed for taking up arms against their overlords, not for disagreeing with Luther. It’s like saying that the insurgents in Iraq are being killed for not agreeing with the theology of some American Christian preacher, just because that preacher supports the war in Iraq.)Edwin

Excuses excuses excuses, Mr C. I repeat my earlier replies (plural) to you that we’ve given you links until we are blue in the face. Link after link after link.

And you have responded in a manner which would make a sailor blush, frankly, ‘Sir’ – namecalling us, brusquely dismissing us, and stonewalling every link we have offered as though we had denied you some sort of entitlement.

Ignoring the elephant in the room, Mr C, is not an entitlement.

Here is a link on the use of force by the early Reformers to convert folks to their new religion. I am posting it for the benefit of lurkers, since you seem not notice the links we post, Mr C.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2541637&postcount=294

Many of the other links can be found on

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=171227

Let the record speak for itself.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

1. CHRISTIAN,

though I might add not all protestants are actually Christians

 

[Teflon93]

1. CHRISTIAN,

though I might add not all protestants are actually Christians

Well, you’ve just debunked yourself!