Numbers Chapter 7?

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LegoGE1947 said:
I’ve even seen some teenagers wear it or Rosary beads as fashion symbols. The local Cadillac car dealer used to have problems with kids stealing the Cadillac logo hood ornaments off the new cars on the lot and putting them on necklaces. So the dealer had to remove them from the cars until the cars were sold. They should have to read Numbers 7 about 288,000 times:rolleyes:
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Yikes! :eek: That is certainly an appropriate punishment for such vandalism. If they do it again, let them be sentenced to read it (2,88,000)! times. That will keep them busy for quite a while. 😃
 
LegoGE1947 said:
The footnote to Numbers 7 in the New American Bible is interesting. “The repetitious account of the same offerings brought by each of the twelve tribal princes and the summary of them are characteristic of an official registration”
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In other words, Moses (or Joshua, or his other helpers who compiled the Pentateuch) has used an official document when writing that part. Perhaps the census was taken by his brother Aaron. 🙂
 
RPRPsych said:
Yikes! :eek: That is certainly an appropriate punishment for such vandalism. If they do it again, let them be sentenced to read it (2,88,000)! times. That will keep them busy for quite a while. 😃
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The dealership was downtown when this vandalism happened. It has since moved to the outskirts of town and they have the new cars more fenced in.
 
LegoGE1947 said:
And, of course all the “begats”.🙂
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Yes, but the Bible wasn’t written in any kind of English, thankfully.

In fact, the Church used to burn English translators at the stake. Probably for good reason, too.
 
ProVobis said:
Yes, but the Bible wasn’t written in any kind of English, thankfully.
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True. It probably read far better in Hebrew, Latin or Greek.
In fact, the Church used to burn English translators at the stake. Probably for good reason, too.
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Wasn’t that because they were producing heretical translations? 🙂

That said, some modern translations can truly grate. 😃
 
RPRPsych said:
Hey, at least they have the Imprimatur! 😛

(And yes, I know there’s a serious point here, but I’ll keep that for another thread.) 🙂
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The two main early English translators that got in trouble were Tyndale and Wycliff. Their translations contained all kind of errors so it has been said. I don’t understand, though, how some modern translators get off with some of the gaffes they’ve made. (We’ll keep that for another thread)
 
TimothyH said:
Reading the individual offerings and the census and all the tribes can be tedious
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Tedious? All ya’ll haven’t been around churches or charitable organizations very long, have you? 😉

Think of it this way: have you ever seen the behavior of families whose parents (or grandparents or great-grandparents…) donated something to the church? They’re very proud of that plaque that shows that their ancestor was the benefactor who donated that stained glass (or baptismal font, or whatever). Don’t think that’s very important? OK… try suggesting to them that the plaque be removed – then you’ll see fireworks! 🤷

So, the dynamic in play here, it seems, is that the descendants in these families were probably very interested in making sure that the offerings given by their ancestors were properly credited! It’s not enough to say that there were “12 of these things” and “12 of those things”, but rather, that “my ancestor gave one of these, and one of those”… 😉
 
ProVobis said:
Yes, but the Bible wasn’t written in any kind of English, thankfully.

In fact, the Church used to burn English translators at the stake. Probably for good reason, too.
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Some Bibles deserved to be burned.

*The “Wicked Bible” of 1631 contained the words, “Thou shalt commit adultery” in Exodus 20:14, omitting the vital “not.”

One of the earliest such Bibles was produced during the reign of King Charles I in the 1600’s. In Psalm 14:1 it reads, “The fool hath said in his heart, there is a God.” The crucial omission of “no” before “God” makes a fool out of a believer! The printer of this edition was fined ℒ3000 for this gross error and all copies of the Bible were suppressed immediately.

A final example, and probably the ultimate printer’s error, appears in a pre-1702 Bible which has King David exclaiming, in Psalm 119:161, “Printers have persecuted me without a cause.” With all of the strange misspellings and omissions produced in Bibles over the centuries, one wonders if perhaps there is a grain of truth in that reading! *

Read more…

There was one which said, “Let the children first be killed” instead of be filled. :eek: Burn it!

-Tim-

PS. I thought you said translations and not translators. My bad. I’m going to leave my post anyway.
 
LegoGE1947 said:
The two main early English translators that got in trouble were Tyndale and Wycliff. Their translations contained all kind of errors so it has been said. I don’t understand, though, how some modern translators get off with some of the gaffes they’ve made.
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Apparently they had a lot of influence even felt today. This video is not exactly Catholic-friendly IMO but I’ll let you judge for yourself.

youtube.com/watch?v=RubxnoTeL_M
 
Gorgias said:
Tedious? All ya’ll haven’t been around churches or charitable organizations very long, have you? 😉

Think of it this way: have you ever seen the behavior of families whose parents (or grandparents or great-grandparents…) donated something to the church? They’re very proud of that plaque that shows that their ancestor was the benefactor who donated that stained glass (or baptismal font, or whatever). Don’t think that’s very important? OK… try suggesting to them that the plaque be removed – then you’ll see fireworks! 🤷

So, the dynamic in play here, it seems, is that the descendants in these families were probably very interested in making sure that the offerings given by their ancestors were properly credited! It’s not enough to say that there were “12 of these things” and “12 of those things”, but rather, that “my ancestor gave one of these, and one of those”… 😉
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There are even pews that were donated by ancestors of families, and anyone other than members of those families who sit in those pews better watch out!!:eek:
 
I’ve gotten to the point where if something is particularly tedious or convoluted, I start looking for the horse in the dung pile.

Numbers 7 is interesting, to me, for the order of the offerings - and the tribes doing the offerings.

Day 1 is Judah. Levi is ‘set apart’, so isn’t on the list. Tribe of Joseph is separated into Manasseh and Ephraim (the two half-tribes of Joseph) because Jacob ‘adopted’ them.

In Genesis 48, Jacob tells Joseph: 5 And now your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are. 6 And the children that you fathered after them shall be yours.

Jacob also blessed Ephraim and Manasseh in reverse order of birth - and they appear in the same ‘reverse order’ on the offering days. (Manasseh was first-born of Joseph.)

Judah - Leah
Issachar - Leah
Zebulum - Leah
Reuben - Leah
Simeon - Leah
Gad - (Zilpah) - Leah

Ephraim - Ephraim means ‘double fruitfulness’, so if the days of the week are used, he would be Friday when they collected a double portion of manna? Might be a stretch, eh?

Manasseh
Benjamin - Rachel
Dan (Bilhah) - Rachel
Asher (Zilpah) - Leah
Naphtali (Bilhah) - Rachel

Is Judah first because of the blessing: Judah’s blessing by Jacob: Gen. 49:8 - “Sons of thy father bow themselves to thee…” ?

Levi’s children: Gershon, Merari, Kohath and Jochebed (f)…

Kohath had son Amram. Amram married his aunt Jochebed and they had: Miriam, Aaron and Moses.

Gershon received: 2 carts and 4 oxen. Merari received: 4 carts and 8 oxen (probably got Kohath’s share to take care of because Kohath’s people would be too busy carrying the tabernacle items). If Merari hadn’t gotten Kohaths share, we’d have an easy 666. 😉

My question is: Why did God pick Levi out of the 12? Levi, with Simeon, killed the Canaanite prince (and many more) over Dinah’s troubles. Jacob’s blessing of Levi left a little to be desired:

Gen. 49:5 - “Simeon and Levi are brothers—their swordsa are weapons of violence. 6 Let me not enter their council, let me not join their assembly, for they have killed men in their anger and hamstrung oxen as they pleased. 7 Cursed be their anger, so fierce, and their fury, so cruel! I will scatter them in Jacob and disperse them in Israel.

God speaking:
Num. 8:18 - “I have taken the Levites instead of all the firstborn of the children of Israel. And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the work for the children of Israel in the tabernacle of meeting, and to make atonement for the children of Israel,…”

I can’t wrap my head around gematria, but here are totals that may mean something to others:

Totals:

12 silver platters (130 x 12 = 1,560)
12 silver bowls (70 x 12 = 840)
12 gold pans - (10 x 12 = 120)

24 silver vessels weighed 2,400 shekels
12 gold pans - 120 shekels

Burnt offerings
12 young bulls
12 rams
12 male lambs in 1st yr

Sin Offering
12 kids of goats

Peace offerings
24 bulls
60 rams
60 male goats
60 male lambs in 1st year, with their grain offering

I had questions about the differences of the various offerings. Found this website that breaks it down in some detail.

www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/tabernacle/details/offerings.htm

I can’t say that I understand it, but I feel a little more informed. 🙂
 
Jeanne1184 said:
Is Judah first because of the blessing: Judah’s blessing by Jacob: Gen. 49:8 - “Sons of thy father bow themselves to thee…” ?
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That was a very interesting post. Thanks for typing all that.

The word ***Judah ***means praise.

The people of Israel arose and went up to Bethel, and inquired of God, “Which of us shall go up first to battle against the Benjaminites?” And the LORD said, "Judah shall go up first." (Judges 20:18)

When we go into battle, praise is to go first. Praise/Judah always comes first in the Bible.

-Tim-
 
Jeanne1184 said:
I’ve gotten to the point where if something is particularly tedious or convoluted, I start looking for the horse in the dung pile.

Numbers 7 is interesting, to me, for the order of the offerings - and the tribes doing the offerings.

Day 1 is Judah. Levi is ‘set apart’, so isn’t on the list. Tribe of Joseph is separated into Manasseh and Ephraim (the two half-tribes of Joseph) because Jacob ‘adopted’ them.

In Genesis 48, Jacob tells Joseph: 5 And now your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, as Reuben and Simeon are. 6 And the children that you fathered after them shall be yours.

Jacob also blessed Ephraim and Manasseh in reverse order of birth - and they appear in the same ‘reverse order’ on the offering days. (Manasseh was first-born of Joseph.)

Judah - Leah
Issachar - Leah
Zebulum - Leah
Reuben - Leah
Simeon - Leah
Gad - (Zilpah) - Leah

Ephraim - Ephraim means ‘double fruitfulness’, so if the days of the week are used, he would be Friday when they collected a double portion of manna? Might be a stretch, eh?

Manasseh
Benjamin - Rachel
Dan (Bilhah) - Rachel
Asher (Zilpah) - Leah
Naphtali (Bilhah) - Rachel

Is Judah first because of the blessing: Judah’s blessing by Jacob: Gen. 49:8 - “Sons of thy father bow themselves to thee…” ?

Levi’s children: Gershon, Merari, Kohath and Jochebed (f)…

Kohath had son Amram. Amram married his aunt Jochebed and they had: Miriam, Aaron and Moses.

Gershon received: 2 carts and 4 oxen. Merari received: 4 carts and 8 oxen (probably got Kohath’s share to take care of because Kohath’s people would be too busy carrying the tabernacle items). If Merari hadn’t gotten Kohaths share, we’d have an easy 666. 😉

My question is: Why did God pick Levi out of the 12? Levi, with Simeon, killed the Canaanite prince (and many more) over Dinah’s troubles. Jacob’s blessing of Levi left a little to be desired:

Gen. 49:5 - “Simeon and Levi are brothers—their swordsa are weapons of violence. 6 Let me not enter their council, let me not join their assembly, for they have killed men in their anger and hamstrung oxen as they pleased. 7 Cursed be their anger, so fierce, and their fury, so cruel! I will scatter them in Jacob and disperse them in Israel.

God speaking:
Num. 8:18 - “I have taken the Levites instead of all the firstborn of the children of Israel. And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the work for the children of Israel in the tabernacle of meeting, and to make atonement for the children of Israel,…”

I can’t wrap my head around gematria, but here are totals that may mean something to others:

Totals:

12 silver platters (130 x 12 = 1,560)
12 silver bowls (70 x 12 = 840)
12 gold pans - (10 x 12 = 120)

24 silver vessels weighed 2,400 shekels
12 gold pans - 120 shekels

Burnt offerings
12 young bulls
12 rams
12 male lambs in 1st yr

Sin Offering
12 kids of goats

Peace offerings
24 bulls
60 rams
60 male goats
60 male lambs in 1st year, with their grain offering

I had questions about the differences of the various offerings. Found this website that breaks it down in some detail.

www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/tabernacle/details/offerings.htm

I can’t say that I understand it, but I feel a little more informed. 🙂
Click to expand...
Very interesting post. Thanks! 👍
 
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