Numbers Game on Paul and Peter

[Atemi]

The holy spirit did not mentioned Paul or Saul. Luke, Paul, and Peter mentioned Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So you deny the Holy Spirit as Author of His own Word?

This is incredibly problematic for any Christian or Catholic to maintain.

It is God’s Word but not His words?

No.

Either they were writing the words of God, or they were not inspired.

"In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, “but as what it really is, the word of God”. “In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them.” (CCC, 104)

Furthermore as I stated before, 150ish were mentioned by Luke only in order to emphasize who said what since the latter half of Acts is about Paul’s travels and escapades.

Irrelevant.

Acts of the Apostles is no less God’s Word than Jaohn’s Gospel account.

Pitting one text against another should be the last thing on your mind, IMO.

God’s Word is God’s Word.

What is your definition of “Unique Mention”

A record of a singular event or mention, as opposed to the same event recorded multiple times.

But that is just another way to count chads here. There are probably hundreds of ways to account.

Did you finish your count by hand yet?

…

 

[JoeyWarren]

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So you deny the Holy Spirit as Author of His own Word?

No, Even CCC 104 has to be read in the proper context.

The Scriptures have two authors.

One is the Holy Spirit which authored indirectly via Inspiration.

One is the Physical Human whom actually picked up the quill and papyrus and wrote the words.

I don’t believe the Holy Spirit dictated every single word that was to be used. A lot was left up to the human author.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit dictated every single word?

As for the context of 104 I will reply in tthe moring. It’s time for my Knights of Columbus meeting.

Till then.

**

 

[JoeyWarren]

Yes I have finished my count, and I came up with one more than Paul for Peter.

And if you wish to delve into events, then when can narrow Pauls down to just a few events. Events are nearly non-existence in his Epistles. As for Acts the Events can be narrowed down to about a dozen or so depending on the definition of event. But I am sure you will give a liberal definition of Event.

 

[Randy_Carson]

But even 4/5 of the Catholic Church in 1054 didn’t even believe them.

How you expect non-Catholics to believe what 4/5 of the Catholic Church itself already rejected one thousand years ago is unreasonable.

A lot of people in this country seem to think that abortion is okay. Does that make it right?

Many Bishops were taken in by the heresy of Pelagianism at one point. But they were wrong, and Pelagianism lies in the dust bin of history.

We’re not interested in numbers; we’re interested in truth.

Well, me and about a billion other people.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Atemi]

No, Even CCC 104 has to be read in the proper context.

The Scriptures have two authors.

One is the Holy Spirit which authored indirectly via Inspiration.

One is the Physical Human whom actually picked up the quill and papyrus and wrote the words.

I am mainly concerned with the primary Author, not the instruments.

I don’t believe the Holy Spirit dictated every single word that was to be used. A lot was left up to the human author.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit dictated every single word?

I believe everything we have in God’s Word is there totally on purpose.

I also believe anything not in God’s Word is not their on purpose, not by chance accident.

I believe that the purpose in God’s Word is, by definition, God’s.

As for the context of 104 I will reply in tthe moring. It’s time for my Knights of Columbus meeting.

Have a productive meeting.

…

 

[Atemi]

Yes I have finished my count, and I came up with one more than Paul for Peter.

What is your count?

I did it by hand and came up 187 to 183.

Are you including double names in one mention? (Saul, also known as Paul…Simon, also known as Peter)

Did you remove all the "Simon"s you kept including before?

And if you wish to delve into events, then when can narrow Pauls down to just a few events. Events are nearly non-existence in his Epistles.

I would have to check, but I would agree that salutations do not count as an event.

As for Acts the Events can be narrowed down to about a dozen or so depending on the definition of event. But I am sure you will give a liberal definition of Event.

An event is a unique mention of the Apostle’s name. Simple.

…

 

[Atemi]

A lot of people in this country seem to think that abortion is okay. Does that make it right?

We are talking about the Catholic Church here, Randy.

***Abortion? ***

Many Bishops were taken in by the heresy of Pelagianism at one point. But they were wrong, and Pelagianism lies in the dust bin of history.

We’re not interested in numbers; we’re interested in truth.

Is this the answer you use when someone wants to know how 4/5 of the Catholic Church got it wrong but only 1/5 got it right?

Is this before or after you explain that God protects the Catholic Church from teaching error?

Or do you say the 1/5 of the Church that stood alone was a faithful remnant?

Well, me and about a billion other people.

Since I am included in that “billion,” along with all other ex-Catholics, non-practicing Catholics, and protestant Catholics…I wouldn’t be too proud of that horribly broken estimate.

Yeah.

It seems that it is about numbers when it is convenient. Consistency should be prized here, IMV.

…

 

[Church_Militant]

Matthew 7:13: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
14: For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Luke 13:23: And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them,
24: "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I said:
I don’t believe the Holy Spirit dictated every single word that was to be used. A lot was left up to the human author.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit dictated every single word?

You replied
I believe everything we have in God’s Word is there totally on purpose.

I also believe anything not in God’s Word is not their on purpose, not by chance accident.

I believe that the purpose in God’s Word is, by definition, God’s.

You side stepped the question. Give a straight Yes or No to the answer.

 

[Randy_Carson]

We are talking about the Catholic Church here, Randy.

***Abortion? ***

Is this the answer you use when someone wants to know how 4/5 of the Catholic Church got it wrong but only 1/5 got it right?

Is this before or after you explain that God protects the Catholic Church from teaching error?

Or do you say the 1/5 of the Church that stood alone was a faithful remnant?

I’m not sure what your point is for writing any of the above. You seem to prize sarcasm above clarity in most of your posts.

My point is that might (or numbers) do not make right, and that it matters not a hoot what the crowd thinks if the crowd is in error.

Since I am included in that “billion,” along with all other ex-Catholics, non-practicing Catholics, and protestant Catholics…I wouldn’t be too proud of that horribly broken estimate.

Another Atemism…an assertion with no documentation.

However, since you acknowledge that you are a fallen-away Catholic, I think it is only fair to point out that I wouldn’t be too proud of that fact.

It seems that it is about numbers when it is convenient. Consistency should be prized here, IMV.

I was being ironical. I thought you might enjoy that.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[JoeyWarren]

Atemism said:
I also believe anything not in God’s Word is not their on purpose, not by chance accident.

That is going to present some problems for you. Jesus quoted things from the “Old Testament World” that are not in the Old Testament itself. And some things that you believe are not in the Bible as well such as:

You believe in a trinitarian God, even though there is not one Explicit declaration stating that God is one god but 3 separate entities.

You believe that all General Revelation died with the last Apostle even though that belief is not found in the Bible.

just to name a few…

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thanks to all who have participated in this discussion.
This thread is now closed.