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carmelitegirl93
Guest
Ok well what I want to know is are Nuns brides of Christ? I am not to sure about that so if you guys can help me out on this one thanks.
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Adrienne5678
Guest
Yes. They are.
Just as The Holy Virgin is the bride of the Holy Spirit.
Nuns are the brides of Christ.
Not physically but spiritually, for they dedicate their lives to Jesus as married couples do.
They bind themselves to Him by the vows they take. Usually 3:
Poverty
Chastity and
Obedience
(Sometimes “Enclosure” if they’re contemplatives.)
Hope this helps.
Blessings,
Adi
Just as The Holy Virgin is the bride of the Holy Spirit.
Nuns are the brides of Christ.
Not physically but spiritually, for they dedicate their lives to Jesus as married couples do.
They bind themselves to Him by the vows they take. Usually 3:
Poverty
Chastity and
Obedience
(Sometimes “Enclosure” if they’re contemplatives.)
Hope this helps.
Blessings,
Adi
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
So then, brothers who also take the same vows as nuns are also “brides of Christ”?
The “bride of Christ” analogy is flawed (as all analogies end up being) as it does not fit the whole story. Just as saying that a priest is “married to the Church”.
As an analogy it can work for some but it does not work for all and may even turn some people away, so we must remember this.
Theologically speaking, no they are not.
But if the analogy works for you then go for it.
The “bride of Christ” analogy is flawed (as all analogies end up being) as it does not fit the whole story. Just as saying that a priest is “married to the Church”.
As an analogy it can work for some but it does not work for all and may even turn some people away, so we must remember this.
Theologically speaking, no they are not.
But if the analogy works for you then go for it.
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GilChrist77
Guest
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Rising_Suns
Guest
In a certain sense, yes, since the soul is feminine in nature.
However, for men, one might also consider the life of Blessed John Eudes, who was mystically espoused to Our Lady. When the Blessed Mother appeared to him, She told him; “You will be to me like a new Saint Joseph.” If women religious are espoused to Christ, which is a perfectly legitimate analogy, then us men can be espoused to Our Lady.
Many of the Saints have stated that a man will be a failure as a priest/religious without an espousal-like love for Our Lady…it is not good enough to just think of Our Lady as an intercessor. Us men need to development a passionate love for Her; to rise up and defend Her as our Beloved; as the most perfect of everything feminine. Otherwise, male religious will go looking for this feminine love elsewhere, and may even abandon their vows. This happened in the 60’s and 70’s, when Our Lady was removed from seminaries and Church life in order to be more appealing to Protestants. Take away the Beloved spouse from a man and everything crumbled; and many became homosexual in a desperate search for this void that can only be filled by Our Lady.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
While saints may say that, it is not a Teaching of the Church.
Not everything the saints say is dogmatic. Again, if it works for a person then good but do not think it is the only way of thinking and do not get upset when others disagree with it.
I am not married to Christ, nor if/when I make it to ordination will I be married to the Church.
This shows an issue. The Church says that you can only be married once yet people believe that religious are married to Christ and a priest is married to the Church so a religious priest is married twice?
The marital analogies do not work for me and I know of many others who it does not work for.
I am not called to marriage, I am called to religious life, they are different and I see no need to blur the lines of them.
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Rising_Suns
Guest
It doesn’t have to be a dogmatic teaching of the Church for it to be true. When the saints have spoken of these mystical marriages, they are speaking in the realm of mystical theology, which is on a completely different mode of thought than dogmatic theology.
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The good pharisee did not understand the meaning of “rebirth”, and asked Christ how can one enter the womb of his mother twice. He did not understand the mystical meaning of rebirth, rather than a literal meaning. There are some things that are a mystery to us, and can only be partly understood by using words to approximate heavenly realities. Therefore, the analogies that the saints have used are not necessarily flawed because there is no truth in them, but they are flawed because we cannot fully understand them.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Still does not make the analogy true. It fails in many points as all analogies do.
May I ask why it is so important to you that it is true? Can you just not agree that it is an analogy that works for some but not for others?
As for the soul being feminine in nature, I totally disagree with that.
While it may be “mystical theology” it does not make it true.
Just as an example. Carmelites speak of Mary as both Mother and Sister. This is confusing for some and hard to take for others.
It is an analogy that has its place which is very limited.
I say the analogies are flawed because of the contradictions they contain. They may speak of a truth but by doing so they ignore or contradict other truths. Analogies are very limited when used in this manner.
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rachael_maria
Guest
Bless you, Carmelite Girl! It seems like your sincere question has become an arguing point. It is true that this is an analogy, because it does not refer to a physical marriage but to a spiritual one! Do you know that in marriage the person is called to make a complete gift of themselves to the other person? For sisters they are called to make a complete gift of themselves to Jesus! Do you know of any sisters you can ask about this? It might be special for you to hear their answer. Maybe you could even write in your question to a Carmelite nun! I can tell you that many sisters believe that they are espoused to Christ- and that this is not a new idea- that it has been a strong tradition in the spiritual life of women religious. You can find some very beautiful quotes by saints about this! Did you watch the Dominicans on Oprah? They talked about being brides of Christ. Also, many, many Carmelites have this spirituality! (Like St. Therese and St. John of the Cross and St. Edith Stein!) You can’t go wrong trusting these great masters of the spiritual life! Especially since St. Therese and St. John of the Cross are a doctors of the Church!
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Rising_Suns
Guest
It might even be said that the mystical marriage between a soul and Christ is *more *real than the earthly marriage between two people, since the earthly marriage was designed by God to be a foreshadow of the heavenly marriage, just as the Old Covenant was a foreshadow of the New.
When a soul consecrates herself (or himself) to the Lord and takes the triple vows, she is in a sense skipping the earthly foreshadow for a heavenly reality. In this way, she is already living her life on earth with one foot in heaven, where earthly marriage does not exist, but where all will be wed to Our Lord.
As you know, mystical theology cannot be confined to thinking in literal human terms.
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When a soul consecrates herself (or himself) to the Lord and takes the triple vows, she is in a sense skipping the earthly foreshadow for a heavenly reality. In this way, she is already living her life on earth with one foot in heaven, where earthly marriage does not exist, but where all will be wed to Our Lord.
Mary is all that and more. She is Mother, Sister, Spouse, and Daughter. She is everything feminine in the most perfect sense of the word. As Saint Francis stated, She is daughter of the Father, Mother of the Son, and Spouse of the Holy Spirit. How can she be all these at the same time? Well, one might respond to this question as Our Lord responded to the good pharisee: You are a doctor of the law and you do not understand this?
As you know, mystical theology cannot be confined to thinking in literal human terms.
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carmelitegirl93
Guest
Thank you so much! this really means a lot to me, I want to be His bride for evey and ever.
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carmelitegirl93
Guest
Thank you. And yes I did see them on Oprah thats why I ask about this befor I was just kind of thinking being a nun was just giving your life to God but when I heard being a bride it just made me jumpd for joy!!!
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
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JReducation
Guest
When religious women use the expression, “Brides of Christ” they do not mean it literally, It is a metaphor for a deeper reality. The sisters themselves understand this. They understand that if they were to belief this to be a theological truth that they would be doing a great injustice to religious life, because of the hundreds of thousands of religious men who make the same vows and live the same life. It is important that the lay person understand what the sisters are saying.
They are describing their life of total consecration to Christ and the intimacy that arises between the religious (male or female) and Christ. If you were to reword the question to the sister, you would get a completely different answer. Try asking a sister, “Are religious brides of Christ?” They would say, “no”.
The sisters understand that there is no difference between them and me. We are both consecrated religoius, both intimately united to Christ through the vows and the common life. They also understand that we are intimately united to each other, because we are part of the same state in life, the consecrated life. It makes no difference that we are male and female or that we are Franciscan, Carmelite, Dominican, Salesian, etc. We are consecrated religious and therefore, we form one state in life within the Church. The Church refers to us as the consecrated life.
The point is that the answer depends on how the question is worded. If you ask any religious if religious are brides of Christ, they will answer in the negative, because to answer in the affirmative would then exclude the male religious.
As great as the mother of God is, it is not the same to be consecrated to the Mother of God and to be consecrated to Christ. Religious are not consecrated to the Mother of God. We are consecrated to Christ. There is a consecration to Mary, but that is a very different thing from the vowed life. Secular men and women and religious can consecrate themselves to Mary. But only religious can consecrate themselves to Christ.
I hope this helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
They are describing their life of total consecration to Christ and the intimacy that arises between the religious (male or female) and Christ. If you were to reword the question to the sister, you would get a completely different answer. Try asking a sister, “Are religious brides of Christ?” They would say, “no”.
The sisters understand that there is no difference between them and me. We are both consecrated religoius, both intimately united to Christ through the vows and the common life. They also understand that we are intimately united to each other, because we are part of the same state in life, the consecrated life. It makes no difference that we are male and female or that we are Franciscan, Carmelite, Dominican, Salesian, etc. We are consecrated religious and therefore, we form one state in life within the Church. The Church refers to us as the consecrated life.
The point is that the answer depends on how the question is worded. If you ask any religious if religious are brides of Christ, they will answer in the negative, because to answer in the affirmative would then exclude the male religious.
As great as the mother of God is, it is not the same to be consecrated to the Mother of God and to be consecrated to Christ. Religious are not consecrated to the Mother of God. We are consecrated to Christ. There is a consecration to Mary, but that is a very different thing from the vowed life. Secular men and women and religious can consecrate themselves to Mary. But only religious can consecrate themselves to Christ.
I hope this helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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HeWillProvide
Guest
If nuns are brides of Jesus, it’s kind of weird to think that Jesus is “married” to hundreds of thousands of different women…
or am I thinking of it wrong?
or am I thinking of it wrong?
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Theophile
Guest
I think what the whole ‘Bride of Christ’ analogy is aiming for is the idea that, if a Priest or Religious, you would devote the time and care to God normally given to a partner. While this is not necessarily the universal case (priests of Eastern Catholicism may marry, and they have an equal love for God), I do consider it helpful to think of God as a lover in in the consecrated life, because God is beyond such a human aspect of gender.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church #239: “God is neither man nor woman: He is God”.
Why aren’t more people jumping at the chance?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church #239: “God is neither man nor woman: He is God”.
Why aren’t more people jumping at the chance?
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JReducation
Guest
Jesus is married to his Church, not to individuals. As I said above, the question is would get a very different answer if you asked sisters, “Are religious (men and women) brides of Christ?” They would say, “No.” The term bride implies female.
If it were the case that women religious are brides of Christ and male religoius are not, then what are male religious? We make the same vows. We live the same life. In the larger orders, we follow the same rule. For example, all Franciscans are Franciscans, male and female. All Carmelites are Carmelites, male and female. All Dominicans are Dominicans, male and female, and so forth.
The wording, “Brid of Christ” was a very romantic metaphor adopted at one time for a specific reason that has little to do with religious life. There was a time in our Church, which lasted until Vatican II, when clericalism was rampant. The priest was placed on a pedestal. Women were often submitted to the governance of men, including many religious communities. The metaphor was adopted to help explain the uniqueness of the vocation to the religious life for women.
However, this metaphor did a great deal of harm to male religious who are not priests. The laity was led to confusion. They began to see two options for boys and girls. Boys became priests and girls became brides of Christ. Those boys who became religious were ignored by the laity and the clergy.
Archbishop Dolan of NY recently said it best. He said that the male religious life is the forgotten vocation. He blasted the laity in his archdiocese for not acknowledging the significance of male religious and not considering them, even in their prayers. People pray for vocations to the priesthood and religiouse life, but when they use the term religious life, they think of women, forgetting the millions of religious men who have been part of the Church since the second century and are not priests and are not women.
St. Francis tried to correct this thinking in his writings on religious life. He said
We are spouses when by the Holy Ghost the faithful soul is united to Jesus Christ. We are His brothers when we do the will of His Father who is in heaven. 6 We are His mothers when we bear Him in our heart and in our body through pure love and a clean conscience and we bring Him forth by holy work which ought to shine as an example to others.
St. Francis’ Letter to the Faithful
I hope this helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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JReducation
Guest
You must be very careful here. Priests are not consecrated religious. Holy Ordes is very different from Religious LIfe. Holy Orders is a sacrament. The term “order” has nothing to do with religious orders. It refers to the three orders or ranks in the sacrament: deacon, presbyter and bishop. A man called to Holy Orders is not always called to life a consecrated life. We call these men secular priests. Most secular priests belong to a diocese. Therefore, we call these secular priests Diocesan Priests. Some belong to societies such as Maryknoll, Vicentians, SSPX, FSSP, Missionhurst and others.
Men or women called to the consecrated life are those who are called to the religious life. They consecrate their lives to Christ throught the public profession of obedience to a rule of life. For example, the Benedictines make a vow to obey the Rule of St. Benedict. They do not make vows of chastity or poverty. However, the rule says that they must be celibate and poor.
Other orders and congregations actually incorporate the three evangelical counsels into the profession. We vow to life in obedience, without property and in chastity. Our chastity requires celibacy.
Whether you vow just obedience or more, the fact is that you are consecrating your life to live in intimacy with Christ as part of a family that lives according to a rule of holiness.
In the consecrated life there are men who are ALSO deacons, priests or bishops. These men are called to BOTH the Consecrated Life and to Holy Orders. But you can have one without the other.
Holy Orders is not necessary for the Consecrated Life, nor is the Consecrated Life necessary for the priesthood.
One can be a secular man and be a priest or a consecrated man and not be a priest. They are different calls, but they can come together for some men. It is really up to the Major Superior of the religious community to decide if the religious under his jurisdiction is called to Holy Orders. No religious can be ordained without the consent of the Major Superior, even if the superior is not a priest. He must confirm the call to Holy Orders in his subjects. Otherwise, no bishop can legally ordain a religious.
I believe that the fact that a religious superior must consent to an ordination of one of his men and that a bishop has no authority or right to ordain a religious without the consent of the religious superior is the greatest proof that Holy Orders and Religious Life are distinct. Just think about it. With all of the power that comes with being a bishop, he cannot legally ordain any religious without the permission of the religious superior, even if the religious wants to be ordained. The ordiantion is illicit and in some cases, invalid. The question of jursidiction can be brought up. Bishops have no jurisdiction over religious when it comes to ordination. They must ordain anyone that the religius superior presents for ordination and deny ordination to any religious who does not have the written permission of his religious superior.
In some religious orders, the permission of the superior is not enough. The brothers in the community must vote. If the vote is against ordination, the superior must obey the vote and not present the candidate for ordination. This depends on the Constitution of the order and the rule of the founder. Some founders bind their superiors to the authority of their subordiantes. Meaning, the superior can only govern where the subordinates authorize him to govern.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Monica4316
Guest
I believe that nuns are brides of Christ I’ve read about this idea in several books by the Saints. I think it’s beautiful.
I’ve read about this idea in several books by the Saints. I think it’s beautiful.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Just a question.I believe that nuns are brides of Christ
What about sisters? Are they also brides of Christ? Or just nuns? Is it the cloister that makes a difference? Then what about monks and hermits who are cloistered?
What about brothers? They are consecrated religious just as sisters and nuns are.
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