O.K. We're FORGIVEN - NOW WHAT?

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Gratias Grace:
SPOKENWORD!

Jesu work on the cross was complete! From the first Adam we inherited the sin. As I have told you before, his sin deserved death, back to none-existance, as he was (nothing) before he was created. But God didn’t destroy him. **Instead God made His plans for saving Adams heirs from death ** (from extinction). That plan was completed when Jesus, the second Adam, defeated death on the cross.

The question is what dept was paid? Adams dept, Spokenword. As the heir of Adam we do not have to fear the consequenses of eternal death, because Jesus has restored us. But we are “marked” with the "narrow urge"to sin. This “urge” we have inherited form Adam.

Jesus has given us free access to Heaven if we want to be Gods children. If the EFFECT (the consequences) was taken completely away when Jesus died on the cross, we would not been EFFECTED with sins. No one would have heard about Pride, Envy, Anger, Sloth, Greed, Gluttony, Lust or other sins. We would all have wandered around naked and happy, praising God, as Adam and Eve did in the beginning!

MY QUESTION IS (AND I WANT AN ANSWER, SPOKENWORD): CAN’T YOU SEE THAT STILL AFTER JESUS REDEEMED US WE ARE EFFECTED BY THE SINS OF OUR ANCESTORS?

Yes, the sin is forgiven and washed away, but not the harm it has done to our selves and to others. Not even doing the penance afterwards takes away the effects of the sin.

Do you remember all the hurt I used in the example with the rapist? Do you think that he will ever get rid of what he has done in his thougts? Let us presume that it was his fiancée he raped. He couldn’t wait to after the wedding. We can’t blame her if she don’t want to marry him.

What shall he do than? He is forgiven, but he suffers from the consequences. Shall he suffer all his life or is there some way he can get rid of the suffering as a consequence of what he has done?

If his sorrow is real, if he starts to live in a more appropriate way in his relationship with God and others (remember God is LOVE), he will more and more want to stop sinning. When he walks home to do his pennance after confession he does so to please God, not because the priest said so. He starts at the purifying-prosess here on earth. It is how purified he is when he dies, that determines how much he has to be purified after death to be able to enter Heaven.

Remember: But nothing unclean will enter it … (Rev 21:27)

The topic that Exporter raised was not if we were forgiven (because that is knowledge of childhood), but what we can do to “speed up” the purifying-prosess when we still live on earth!

**DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT FORGVENESS IS GODS FREE GIFT TO US EVEN IF THE SIN IS MURDER, BUT THAT THE FORGIVENES IS ONLY THE “BEGINNING” OF THE PURIFYING PROSESS? **

I want to present **a flow-chart ** about sin, confession, forgivness and so on on Catholic Doctrine:

catholicbridge.com/catholic_doctrine_flow_chart.htm

Take a good look at it!

A repetition of the two questions i have asked in theis post:

**1) CAN’T YOU SEE THAT STILL AFTER JESUS REDEEMED US WE ARE EFFECTED BY THE SINS OF OUR ANCESTORS?
  1. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT FORGVENESS IS GODS FREE GIFT TO US EVEN IF THE SIN IS MURDER, BUT THAT THE FORGIVENES IS ONLY THE “BEGINNING” OF THE PURIFYING PROSESS?**
:blessyou:

G.Grace
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Hi Grace, I will return after I refuel my tank with the help of the Holy Spirit. I need to get into prayer. 😉 God bless
 
The title of this thread is: “O.K. We’re Forgiven - Now What?”

Vincent in post # 49 and John Henry in post # 46 wrote to the subject of this thread in a most wonderful way.

That title is"O.K. We’re Forgiven" …“Now What”? Spokenword is having a bit of trouble getting past the word “forgiven”. The “forgiven” part is accepted, done and finished BEFORE we get to the ,“NOW WHAT?”

I think Spokenword would rather have to eat his mouse than to MOVE ON and discuss Purgatory. Why? Because he holds to the Protestant belief that when a believer dies, he walks right into heaven. There have been several posts that did a wonderful job of explaining the Catholic theology of THE REASON FOR PURGATORY. Spoken word obviously ignores this.

The title of this thread forces one to take the next step. One possible next step is to read from a Catholic source about Purgatory.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
For these reasons I think I will pass over Spoken’s Protestant ramblings.
 
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Exporter:
The title of this thread is: “O.K. We’re Forgiven - Now What?”

Vincent in post # 49 and John Henry in post # 46 wrote to the subject of this thread in a most wonderful way.

That title is"O.K. We’re Forgiven" …“Now What”? Spokenword is having a bit of trouble getting past the word “forgiven”. The “forgiven” part is accepted, done and finished BEFORE we get to the ,“NOW WHAT?”

I think Spokenword would rather have to eat his mouse than to MOVE ON and discuss Purgatory. Why? Because he holds to the Protestant belief that when a believer dies, he walks right into heaven. There have been several posts that did a wonderful job of explaining the Catholic theology of THE REASON FOR PURGATORY. Spoken word obviously ignores this.

The title of this thread forces one to take the next step. One possible next step is to read from a Catholic source about Purgatory.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
For these reasons I think I will pass over Spoken’s Protestant ramblings.
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Hi Exporter,My mouse is done eating. 😃 Now that we are forgiven we move forward without looking back.Now we turn and submitt,surrender and yield to the Holy Spirit.We walk with Christ dayly and dying to the sins of our flesh.We Love Him by obeying Him and like Mary says; Do whatever He tells you.Getting back to the subject at hand. In Colossians 2:13 I quote;When you were dead in your sins and in the circumcision of your sinful nature,God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us of all our sins.having cancelled THE WRITTEN CODE,with its regulations that was against us and that stood opposed to us;he took it away,nailing it to the cross.Jesus cancelled ALL of our sins.There is no looking back.It is finished. :confused: God Bless
 
Spokenword, Bless your heart as we say in Ranch Country. I think that means that we ask God to Bless your heart. I don’t want to get sidetracked with the word “bless” here. But Bless your heart. Not your mind, but your heart. That thing down deep inside where our believing takes place. I hope I kept that understandable.

But, Spokenword, there is something that either you don’t understand or that you just want to ignore. And that is the "effects " of sin. There have been at least three who have explained it to you but you don’t want to face the “effects” of sin. It is not just a part of just the “old law”, no, it is part of the New Covenant too. It is difficult not appear uncharitable yet say for the fourth time that there are “effects” of sin.

You are wood, the nail is sin. Drive the nail(sin) into the wood. Ask forgiveness, recieve forgiveness and the nail (sin) is pulled out of you (the wood). O.K. the sin was forgiven - whats left? Hey something IS left. There is a wound or a hole in the wood (you). You have been wounded. That wound (hole) is the “effect” of a sin.

The question is how do we get rid of that hole in you (the wood)?
The Trinity has made provisions for removing the “effects” of sin. Do you know what that provision is? Don’t dodge, buck and weave - face it , please.
 
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Exporter:
Spokenword, Bless your heart as we say in Ranch Country. I think that means that we ask God to Bless your heart. I don’t want to get sidetracked with the word “bless” here. But Bless your heart. Not your mind, but your heart. That thing down deep inside where our believing takes place. I hope I kept that understandable.

But, Spokenword, there is something that either you don’t understand or that you just want to ignore. And that is the "effects " of sin. There have been at least three who have explained it to you but you don’t want to face the “effects” of sin. It is not just a part of just the “old law”, no, it is part of the New Covenant too. It is difficult not appear uncharitable yet say for the fourth time that there are “effects” of sin.

You are wood, the nail is sin. Drive the nail(sin) into the wood. Ask forgiveness, recieve forgiveness and the nail (sin) is pulled out of you (the wood). O.K. the sin was forgiven - whats left? Hey something IS left. There is a wound or a hole in the wood (you). You have been wounded. That wound (hole) is the “effect” of a sin.

The question is how do we get rid of that hole in you (the wood)?
The Trinity has made provisions for removing the “effects” of sin. Do you know what that provision is? Don’t dodge, buck and weave - face it , please.
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Hi Exporter, Bless your heart also. I know we can become frustrated with each other.The truth is I dont believe in purgatory. I believe when that nail is gone there is nothing there but a hole.Do you think Jesus wants justice to those who nailed Him to the cross? Or do you think He has forgiven them for they know not what they do. God Bless
 
Oh My Goodness Gracious Alive, as my grand mother would say, YOU WROTE THE WORD “PURGATORY”! That was a monumental task to get you acknowledge that word. THANK YOU !

Finally I must have drawn out of you the parable of the “nail and the wood”. You wrote about that - we are making some headway, Thank You.

Here is an address for something writen by an ex-Protestant, scroll down a few paragraphs to “Not in the Scripture”,and read.
<catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp>

Now we are talking about the “hole” that the nail left.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Exporter, Bless your heart also. I know we can become frustrated with each other.The truth is I dont believe in purgatory. I believe when that nail is gone there is nothing there but a hole.Do you think Jesus wants justice to those who nailed Him to the cross? Or do you think He has forgiven them for they know not what they do. God Bless
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God is Just and merciful,if you take one of those factors away Spoken it is no longer the same God.God Bless
 
Hi SPOKENWORD!
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Grace, I will return after I refuel my tank with the help of the Holy Spirit. I need to get into prayer. 😉 God bless
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The quote was from 04.02.2005!

**Are you still praying? **

:gopray2: Blessings! :gopray2:

G.Grace
 
Hello out there…SPoooooo…Ken, I know your out there.

Haven’t you refilled your tank, yet? Come out and play, why dont’cha? :whacky:
 
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jpusateri:
My 2cents,

This leads us incorrectly into thinking of our relationship to God as a contractual or legal relationship. We are in a covenantal relationship. We are adopted sons and daughters of the Father.

Hope this helps.
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A covenant is a legal agreement/relationship. Look it up. The covenant Jesus establish is one which man cannot break.
 
Hi John, BUT the end result was that Moses did see the promised land called Heaven. It was because of what Jesus did. 👍 God Bless/QUOTE

Brother brother…I give thanks to God that you are here engaging in a discussion so important as salvation. And I hope that you re-read the posts here as they reflect true Catholic teaching-- you will do well to study up (not to mention myself).

The point is simple: we are distinguishing between that which is eternal and that which is temporal; the things of heaven and things of earth. Yes, the wages of sin is death-- that’s a fact. But remember there is both the spiritual death and a physical death. So the EFFECTS of our sin lingers in the HERE AND NOW. I’ll spare an analogy as plenty of effective ones have already been cited.
So we repent for our sins and Christ forgives us the spiritual penalty that is due. But the consequences of our actions (sins) are still with us in the HERE AND NOW. So with repentance comes the necessary ingrediant of penance. Christ said, “Unless you do penance you will likewise perish” Luke 13:3 (I don’t know what version states this, but, I’m sure a solid Catholic one does).
I’m probably not bringing anything new to the table but, whatever, I’m Audi 5000.
 
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