O.T. and laws

[da_nolo]

What has been the take on various laws written in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus? Are all things **from **God or are there various laws/rules from man based on their interpretation of God’s rule (10 Commandments and such)?

 

[Chatter163]

What exactly do you mean by “the take”? It does not sound as if you are asking what the Church’s teachings are.

 

[PietroPaolo]

What has been the take on various laws written in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus? Are all things **from **God or are there various laws/rules from man based on their interpretation of God’s rule (10 Commandments and such)?

The more important distinction, it seems to me, is between the eternal moral law and the specific laws given to Israel. The former applies to us today, including teachings against “hot button” issues like homosexual acts. The later does not, this would include cultic regulations and cultural laws that were intended to keep the children of Israel separate from their neighbors.

As far as who gave the laws, Jesus seems to imply that at least some of the laws were given not from God, but from Moses, see Matthew 19:8

 

[JRKH]

All things are from God - but remember that - as Jesus said - “The Sabbath was made for man, nor man for the Sabbath”. This applies to all of the Law - which is good so long as it is seen properly within the context of the times and the underlying principles of the great commandments. (Mt 22:36-40).

Now - as far as how the OT laws effect our daily lives…We see in Acts 15 that most of the OT laws are set aside by act of the Spirit guided council.
All was fulfilled by Christ on the cross and by His resurrection.

Now we are not under the Old Law but under the New Law which Jesus gave in John 13:34-35. The Law of Love.

Peace
James

 

[judynurse]

Keep in mind also that many of the Mosaic Laws, particularly the “Kosher” laws regarding foods, were just common sense (for us). Meat spoiled easily in the hot climate, and pork was especially prone to spoilage or disease. It also served to “separate” the Jews, who were still learning about God at that time from their pagan neighbors, who vastly outnumbered them. Many of the Laws of Moses were written by Moses, or those who assisted him in forming a large group of former slaves into a true people and nation. The Ten Commandments, on the other hand were specifically said by Moses to have been written by God, not Moses. Therefore, those Ten Commandments are still valid, still required to follow. With modern refrigeration, many Jews do not follow the ancient Kosher dietary Laws, although the Orthodox Jews do so, as a part of their tradition. Interestingly, the Muslims also forbid pork, and likely from the same cause: hot climate.

 

[FAB]

What has been the take on various laws written in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus? Are all things **from **God or are there various laws/rules from man based on their interpretation of God’s rule (10 Commandments and such)?

Remember we are living under the new covenant established by Christ and lead by the Holy Spirit all in the scripture needs to taken in that light and the scripture contains the truth of God’s salvation, not to be taken literally in all cases.
The old Mosaic law, as one poster put it had to do with common sense and to be able to survive without getting sick. Others like an eye for an eye, set limitations on retribution, the ten commandment stands mostly on it’s own, but your should read the Catechism of the church which gives a fuller and expanded explanation of each.

Deacon Frank

 

[sirach2v4]

What has been the take on various laws written in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus? Are all things **from **God or are there various laws/rules from man based on their interpretation of God’s rule (10 Commandments and such)?

There is a rather lengthy essay on this subject from the Pontifical Biblical Commission, called The Jewish People and their Scriptures ( which can be downloaded from here
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCJWSCR.HTM)

this document begins to explain the relation of the OT and NT amongst other things.

I read an interesting observation about those “laws” that you are undoubtedly referring to. Notice that those rules didn’t come at first. It was only after the Israelites summarily violated God’s covenant that the icky ticky “laws” were given, as if they were given to appease them for their desire for icky ticky laws.

The NT says over and over that Christ has fulfilled the demands of the law, so that certainly most if not all of the ceremonial law no longer applies. The Jewish Annotated New Testament (a Jewish commentary on the NT) observes that while Paul said that circumcision was not a requirement for gentiles converting to Christianity, he never prohibits Jewish Christians from practicing their traditions. The earliest Christians used to meet in the Temple, until the Jews ejected them.

 

[mikekle]

Does anyone besides me think its strange that all of the odd laws of the OT are generally thought of as being reserved for the people living at that time, but even though the 10 commandments were in the OT, we are still told these laws are important.

IMO, it is strange in the modern world, we are taught the OT laws no longer apply, but the 10 commandments still do…??

 

[JRKH]

No - I don’t think it strange.

Jesus gave us the Spirit guided Church to guide us and she has done a fine job.
Praise God for His Holy church.
So - the ten commandments - having been written on Mt Sinai and by “the finger of God” - are retained while many of the other and more detailed laws are set aside.

Peace
James

 

[judynurse]

I don’t find it strange at all. We now have refrigeration, so many of the dietary laws forbidding some foods are no longer applicable. If you want to follow all of those laws, you can only walk a certain distance on the Sabbath (which encouraged local synagogues), you must wear certain items to pray, women and men must cover their heads to pray, etc, etc, etc… However, as regards the Ten Commandments, why wouldn’t they still be applicable?? Is murder now o.k., since we are “modern”? How about adultery – should that be acceptable practice? Or lying, or lying in court (false witness), or having a whole bunch of gods instead of the One God? The Ten Commandments actually are the basis of legal laws throughout not only the Western world, but much of the East as well. Almost every country follows at least 8 of the 10 laws in their legal systems. (Following only One God is not a legal law in countries other than the Moslem ones, which have very strict laws on that one!). But all countries have legal codes which forbid murder, false witness (especially in court), theft, and other such laws based on the Ten Commandments. Even Jesus stated that the Ten Commandments came from God.

Jesus came to “fulfill all the Law and the Prophets”, but He never told us that the Ten Commandments were “fulfilled” and no longer applicable. He added the Commandment of Love.

 

[JRKH]

Jesus came to “fulfill all the Law and the Prophets”, but He never told us that the Ten Commandments were “fulfilled” and no longer applicable. He added the Commandment of Love.

Actually - He did not “add” the law of Love. Rather He summarized all of the Law and the Prophets IN the Law of Love. (See Mt 22:36-40).
The ten commandments are the most basic expression of that Law in action.

Peace
James

 

[da_nolo]

What exactly do you mean by “the take”? It does not sound as if you are asking what the Church’s teachings are.

I am indeed interested in Church’s teaching, but also historical information on how this portion of the Bible was written as the Torah.

Some laws are not as we take them to be. is everything considered to be handed down by God or, as it may have already stated, are some laws noticeably written by men?

How does these laws apply today, how did they apply then?

Is “inspired” in question?

Is the entire Bible, word for word inspired to be word of God, that which would conclude that everything is from Him?

edit:
okay, towards the end there I branched out, but I think that could help understand how these few books & chapters were written.

For example:
Leviticus 20:27
“If man or woman is possessed by a spirit of witchcraft or divination, their lives must pay for it by stoning; they have put themselves beyond hope of pardon.”

Is there historical information on how this passage was formed/came to be? What does the Church’s teachings include about Leviticus, or the passage?

 

[da_nolo]

The more important distinction, it seems to me, is between the eternal moral law and the specific laws given to Israel. The former applies to us today, including teachings against “hot button” issues like homosexual acts. The later does not, this would include cultic regulations and cultural laws that were intended to keep the children of Israel separate from their neighbors.

As far as who gave the laws, Jesus seems to imply that at least some of the laws were given not from God, but from Moses, see Matthew 19:8

Interesting. So how might we separate moral laws and these specific laws given to Israel? Might we conclude through reason, as we read and reread these laws and their books to consider circumstance and relativity?

 

[mikekle]

I am indeed interested in Church’s teaching, but also historical information on how this portion of the Bible was written as the Torah.

Some laws are not as we take them to be. is everything considered to be handed down by God or, as it may have already stated, are some laws noticeably written by men?

How does these laws apply today, how did they apply then?

Is “inspired” in question?

Is the entire Bible, word for word inspired to be word of God, that which would conclude that everything is from Him?

edit:
okay, towards the end there I branched out, but I think that could help understand how these few books & chapters were written.

For example:
Leviticus 20:27
“If man or woman is possessed by a spirit of witchcraft or divination, their lives must pay for it by stoning; they have put themselves beyond hope of pardon.”

Is there historical information on how this passage was formed/came to be? What does the Church’s teachings include about Leviticus, or the passage?

I think the statement of ‘them being beyond pardon’ speaks volumes, this would imply that even if a person is unwillingly possessed by demons, they cannot be saved or forgiven by God…?

 

[Augustine3]

What has been the take on various laws written in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus? Are all things **from **God or are there various laws/rules from man based on their interpretation of God’s rule (10 Commandments and such)?

The laws found in Exodus and Leviticus are direct dictations from God. The laws from Deuteronomy are from Moses acting as God’s representative.

 

[D_Martin]

What has been the take on various laws written in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus? Are all things **from **God or are there various laws/rules from man based on their interpretation of God’s rule (10 Commandments and such)?

Why? Is some one supposed to read it, and find out for you? If the Lord God says something in the Torah then didn’t Moses document that it was the Lord God who said this or that, and it was not of himself or his own mind?

 

[sirach2v4]

Does anyone besides me think its strange that all of the odd laws of the OT are generally thought of as being reserved for the people living at that time, but even though the 10 commandments were in the OT, we are still told these laws are important.

IMO, it is strange in the modern world, we are taught the OT laws no longer apply, but the 10 commandments still do…??

1. please follow the link I provided in post 7, for an explanation of the relation of OT and NT.
2. Modern Jews do, in fact, hold that the covenant at Sinai and all the commands of Exodus to Deuteronomy apply only to Israel – from their point of view, the literal reading of the OT.
3. Instead, the Jews hold that what is bound on all mankind are the commands of the “Noahide” covenant, which are not stated in the Bible. You see…the Jewish scholars conjecture that there must have been a covenant with mankind, for which God held mankind accountable, and subject to the punishment of the flood. see this, for example, as an explanation

chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/62221/jewish/Universal-Morality.htm

So…according to the Jews, we gentile would only need to follow these seven simple commands.

1. BUT, the Catholic Church considers us to be “spiritual Semites” and subject to all the commands of the OT, except for those which have been superceded or obsoleted by the NT (again, see the link I provide in post #7).
2. The laws of the Ten Commandments are generally thought to be based on or to constitute natural law – anyway – so we need to adhere to them in any case