Obamacare and Catholic Hospitals

[lakotak]

With Obama’s re-election, where does this leave the Catholic hospitals on the moral issue of being forced to do abortions and providing birth control under Obamacare now?

 

[mab23]

it leaves us in a difficult position in which we must do everything we can to uphold our moral duties and values - Obama won - it just means we keep on fighting!

 

[1ke]

With Obama’s re-election, where does this leave the Catholic hospitals on the moral issue of being forced to do abortions and providing birth control under Obamacare now?

Obamacare does not force hospitals to do abortions or provide contraceptive/sterilization services to the public.

What it does do is require employers, including such hospitals, to provide those items as part of the benefits in their employee insurance plans.

It leaves them where they were yesterday-- in court.

 

[Cider]

Two options, participate in intrinsic evil or close. Well I guess the other option would be to only service Catholics. But I don’t think they will make that choice.

 

[preisinger]

I will be hard but I supposed they may need to shut down.

 

[MarisaJean]

Closing the doors to Catholic institutions is NOT an option!

Mr. Obama then unveiled what administration officials called an “accommodation.” Church-affiliated universities, hospitals and charities would not have to provide or pay for such coverage. Instead, the White House said, coverage for birth control could be offered to women directly by their employers’ insurance companies, “with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.”

He is still trying to respect religious values to Catholic and other religious institutions. I do not agree with abortion, birth control ect…but here’s the facts. It does not matter if it is offered to me or not, in my mind it is not an option. That is where Catholics need to start. We cannot make the rest of the world believe or practice what we do. I would not want someone coming in and telling me I need to follow Muslim law and traditions if that is not what I believe. We have to stick to what is right in our minds. If something is offered to me in a health plan that does not mean I have to accept it or use it! Simple…but for those people out there that wish to use these services (pepople that think these are ok) I cannot change their mind. All I can do is pray for them that one day they will come the the truth and change. I cannot change others but through prayer anything is possible. At the end of the day we each need to do what is right for us, our families and our faith. I may not agre with others decison but it is not my place to judge someone for everyone has their judgement day…

 

[ProdglArchitect]

On the plus side, if they do shut down, it’ll certainly wake a lot of people up to the fact that they can’t expect us to buckle in on our beliefs. It would certainly be bad for the country, but we warned them that we would not participate in intrinsic evils and they continued to push. It’s a game of chicken, and the Catholic Church will not budge.

Mr. Obama then unveiled what administration officials called an “accommodation.” Church-affiliated universities, hospitals and charities would not have to provide or pay for such coverage. Instead, the White House said, coverage for birth control could be offered to women directly by their employers’ insurance companies, “with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.”

This is nonsense, and would leave us exactly where we are. The institutions still have to underwrite plans which provide the services, which means that, however indirectly, their money is knowingly being used to fund these operations. It’s a fine line, to be sure, but the Bishops have already made our stand completely clear.

 

[lakotak]

On the plus side, if they do shut down, it’ll certainly wake a lot of people up to the fact that they can’t expect us to buckle in on our beliefs. It would certainly be bad for the country, but we warned them that we would not participate in intrinsic evils and they continued to push. It’s a game of chicken, and the Catholic Church will not budge.

This is nonsense, and would leave us exactly where we are. The institutions still have to underwrite plans which provide the services, which means that, however indirectly, their money is knowingly being used to fund these operations. It’s a fine line, to be sure, but the Bishops have already made our stand completely clear.

The thing I think about with this is that religious conscious is a freedom. We are supposed to be free to say no this violates our faith. If this freedom is lost, then, what other freedoms will also be lost? I can’t help but think that this is only the beginning under the Obama administration.

 

[jediliz]

the** fines **for **not **paying for plans that include contraceptives, abortion and sterilization could force them to shut down, which means the poor and vulnerable, which Catholics have always served. will suffer.

Saint Elizabeth of Hungary, who started some of the first hospitals, please pray for us!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The thing I think about with this is that religious conscious is a freedom. We are supposed to be free to say no this violates our faith. If this freedom is lost, then, what other freedoms will also be lost? I can’t help but think that this is only the beginning under the Obama administration.

Oh, I’m right there with you. I’m just saying that at least some manner of good could come from it. It is far from desirable, and far from moral; and forcing us into this corner would show just how little respect Obama has for religious freedom.

 

[Cider]

Closing the doors to Catholic institutions is NOT an option!

Mr. Obama then unveiled what administration officials called an “accommodation.” Church-affiliated universities, hospitals and charities would not have to provide or pay for such coverage. Instead, the White House said, coverage for birth control could be offered to women directly by their employers’ insurance companies, “with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.”

He is still trying to respect religious values to Catholic and other religious institutions. I do not agree with abortion, birth control ect…but here’s the facts. It does not matter if it is offered to me or not, in my mind it is not an option. That is where Catholics need to start. We cannot make the rest of the world believe or practice what we do. I would not want someone coming in and telling me I need to follow Muslim law and traditions if that is not what I believe. We have to stick to what is right in our minds. If something is offered to me in a health plan that does not mean I have to accept it or use it! Simple…but for those people out there that wish to use these services (pepople that think these are ok) I cannot change their mind. All I can do is pray for them that one day they will come the the truth and change. I cannot change others but through prayer anything is possible. At the end of the day we each need to do what is right for us, our families and our faith. I may not agre with others decison but it is not my place to judge someone for everyone has their judgement day…

That is no accommodation. You know that many employers today are self insured. Which means that medical costs are actually paid for directly by the employer. They just have an insurance company manage the administration for them. This has been covered pretty extensively in the ( faithful) Catholic press, like National Catholic Register ( not the Reporter).

 

[Cider]

On the plus side, if they do shut down, it’ll certainly wake a lot of people up to the fact that they can’t expect us to buckle in on our beliefs. It would certainly be bad for the country, but we warned them that we would not participate in intrinsic evils and they continued to push. It’s a game of chicken, and the Catholic Church will not budge.

.

They don’t care. Catholic Charities have already been forced to close their adoption agencies because they refused to follow the law requiring them to place children with same sex couples. The secular left doesn’t care, they want religious institutions and affiliated religious organizations shut down. They want the federal government running everything.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

They don’t care. Catholic Charities have already been forced to close their adoption agencies because they refused to follow the law requiring them to place children with same sex couples. The secular left doesn’t care, they want religious institutions and affiliated religious organizations shut down. They want the federal government running everything.

Yup, I know they don’t care, but that doesn’t mean the negative affects will be any less prominent, or that they’ll suffer for them any less. Denial only affects their minds, not the reality of the situation they’ll have placed themselves in.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The Catholic Church should not pay any of the fines and MAKE the government come in and physically jail people and continue to not pay any fine and FORCE the government to by force shut down the hospitals!

Why?

Because that is the only way to expose what the administration is all about and it is also the only way to force all the cafeteria catholics in the country who supported this administration with their votes to realize that there are consequences for voting for people who support the intrinsic evil of abortion!

MAKE the government force the hospitals to be closed–can you imagine the TV interviews of the poor in tears?

I know that is drastic but unless the courts ultimately side with the Catholic Church what other course does the church have?

The Catholic Church cannot under any circumstances whatsoever support intrinsic evil.

 

[lakotak]

The Catholic Church should not pay any of the fines and MAKE the government come in and physically jail people and continue to not pay any fine and FORCE the government to by force shut down the hospitals!

Why?

Because that is the only way to expose what the administration is all about and it is also the only way to force all the cafeteria catholics in the country who supported this administration with their votes to realize that there are consequences for voting for people who support the intrinsic evil of abortion!

MAKE the government force the hospitals to be closed–can you imagine the TV interviews of the poor in tears?

I know that is drastic but unless the courts ultimately side with the Catholic Church what other course does the church have?

The Catholic Church cannot under any circumstances whatsoever support intrinsic evil.

I hate to say it,but at this point in our history, I wonder if anyone except the few faithful Catholics left would really care if the Catholic hospitals and institutions are shut down. The population of the US is so blind right now, I don’t think they would give it a passing word, except to say to Obama, “job well done”.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I hate to say it,but at this point in our history, I wonder if anyone except the few faithful Catholics left would really care if the Catholic hospitals and institutions are shut down. The population of the US is so blind right now, I don’t think they would give it a passing word, except to say to Obama, “job well done”.

… Until they start dying because they can’t get healthcare. Then they’ll start blaming and persecuting the Catholics who are living by God’s laws and not giving in to petty human wants.

 

[lakotak]

… Until they start dying because they can’t get healthcare. Then they’ll start blaming and persecuting the Catholics who are living by God’s laws and not giving in to petty human wants.

On a theoretical level, the hospital would probably be sold to secular ones, so they would still be getting care. However, you could have a point.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

On a theoretical level, the hospital would probably be sold to secular ones, so they would still be getting care. However, you could have a point.

True, but my method would definitely get the point of what they’ve done to themselves across better. I dunno, I don’t fear so much for myself; I am solid in my faith and won’t allow any secular government to change that; it’s my eventual children I fear for…

 

[lakotak]

True, but my method would definitely get the point of what they’ve done to themselves across better. I dunno, I don’t fear so much for myself; I am solid in my faith and won’t allow any secular government to change that; it’s my eventual children I fear for…

Yes, I do agree that if the hospitals closed and left them without a place to go, then I think they would either wake up from this hypnotic state they are in now or turn on the Catholics. But I think the real picture would be that the hospitals would be sold and life would go on. This generation is hard core, no universals morals, ethics to guide them, relativism has replaced the morals and ethics that God has set down.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Yes, I do agree that if the hospitals closed and left them without a place to go, then I think they would either wake up from this hypnotic state they are in now or turn on the Catholics. But I think the real picture would be that the hospitals would be sold and life would go on. This generation is hard core, no universals morals, ethics to guide them, relativism has replaced the morals and ethics that God has set down.

Sadly, you are probably correct. I’m beginning to think that our society is only going to wake up after it collapses in on itself.