obamacare marital separation

[royal_archer]

With Obamacare and my employer being forced to shed healthcare costs, our costs are going through the roof. my wife has no income and I was wondering if there were any options to a civil separation so we could divide the income. EG, could she go on disability, welfare, obamacare while I continue to work with my income insulated from her. Are there any resources on how to approach this and calculate the potential savings/income. If we do anything I want to be sure to do it by the book.

 

[1ke]

This would be known as: fraud (civilly)

Morally it is wrong. Marriage is a public witness. We become one flesh. We embrace the other totally. We do not civilly separate or divorce to apply for government benefits.

 

[SamH]

This would be known as: fraud (civilly)

Morally it is wrong. Marriage is a public witness. We become one flesh. We embrace the other totally. We do not civilly separate or divorce to apply for government benefits.

What you defined has nothing to do with what the government considers marriage. Basically as long as no farm animals are harmed its a valid marriage.

 

[royal_archer]

This would be known as: fraud (civilly)

Morally it is wrong. Marriage is a public witness. We become one flesh. We embrace the other totally. We do not civilly separate or divorce to apply for government benefits.

Do you have to declare a reason for a civil separation? What is the fraud according to the letter of the law. Yes it might be a misrepresentation of intent but I am not sure how it would be any different than two people who have marital relations but decided not to get married in order to avoid loosing welfare benefits, etc. If there are an nuances necessary to avoid committing fraud, I’d like to know what they are. As I said, I want to operate within the letter of the law.

As for Morally, the moral union would remain intact as witnessed by the church and inseparable. I am purely talking about the civil aspect of the union which carries no moral weight.

By the way, I am not trying to get something for nothing, I pay well above my fair share of taxes, I just want to stop paying so far above my fair share. Besides there are many single women benefiting from the taxes I pay, why shouldn’t my own wife be able to get some of that money?

 

[Jon_S_1]

With Obamacare and my employer being forced to shed healthcare costs, our costs are going through the roof. my wife has no income and I was wondering if there were any options to a civil separation so we could divide the income. EG, could she go on disability, welfare, obamacare while I continue to work with my income insulated from her. Are there any resources on how to approach this and calculate the potential savings/income. If we do anything I want to be sure to do it by the book.

Not just immoral but illegal. It is cheating the system like this that screws everyone over.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Do you have to declare a reason for a civil separation? What is the fraud according to the letter of the law. Yes it might be a misrepresentation of intent but I am not sure how it would be any different than two people who have marital relations but decided not to get married in order to avoid loosing welfare benefits, etc. If there are an nuances necessary to avoid committing fraud, I’d like to know what they are. As I said, I want to operate within the letter of the law.

As for Morally, the moral union would remain intact as witnessed by the church and inseparable. I am purely talking about the civil aspect of the union which carries no moral weight.

By the way, I am not trying to get something for nothing, I pay well above my fair share of taxes, I just want to stop paying so far above my fair share. Besides there are many single women benefiting from the taxes I pay, why shouldn’t my own wife be able to get some of that money?

Yes you do have to declare a reason, your wife will also be entitled to alimony and child support. The court should order those amounts paid to her which she will have to declare as income and pay tax on (the alimony) and factor in to welfare reception.

At the end I the day I doubt you would be ahead, and f she ever gets pissed at you she’s halfway to taking all you have.

 

[royal_archer]

Yes you do have to declare a reason, your wife will also be entitled to alimony and child support. The court should order those amounts paid to her which she will have to declare as income and pay tax on (the alimony) and factor in to welfare reception. .

Could the reason be undue financial hardship?

I was thinking an uncontested divorce with agreed to child support of one dollar and alimony of one dollar,

At the end I the day I doubt you would be ahead, and f she ever gets pissed at you she’s halfway to taking all you have.

Actually she would only get a quarter, the government already takes half… but the important thing is that the family gets to keep my income, I already give her most of my income (except for some spending cash).

 

[YADA]

With Obamacare and my employer being forced to shed healthcare costs, our costs are going through the roof. my wife has no income and I was wondering if there were any options to a civil separation so we could divide the income. EG, could she go on disability, welfare, obamacare while I continue to work with my income insulated from her. Are there any resources on how to approach this and calculate the potential savings/income. If we do anything I want to be sure to do it by the book.

As others have said - this would be illegal, immoral … and this is exactly why government should not be this involved in our lives …

When people don’t marry in order to obtain government subsidies and benefits and then also start divorcing and obtaining legal separations in order to gain government benefits … while living as married - that is a lie and theft … and our country is in moral decline and entering into a form of slavery …

It also implies that you have a right to obtain the financial support of your neighbors - that you attempt to justify it by saying you pay more taxes then others and therefor are entitled is absurd … it is theft …

Think of it this way …

How would you feel in this scenario … If you and your wife had two daughters. One was married to a man who had a good enough job to provide for her … they were doing well enough financially. Your other daughter struggled financially and needed assistance from you at times. Now - your son in law knew that you would never let his wife [your daughter] want for anything and together they decided to tell you that they were splitting up … not in reality - they would still be together in every sense - except just not tell you they were. Then your daughter comes to you and gets you to provide some additional financial assistance … This assistance makes their life easier - now your daughter and son in law can make their income spread farther and they can take that vacation …

Would you feel this was honest?

Is this behavior moral?

Is this the way you want them to think about your money … like its theirs to get by hook or crook?

Would you have respect for your son in law? Your daughter?

Well - the tax payers want the government to use the tax revenues wisely, not waste it, not give it to people who scam the system

 

[YADA]

Could the reason be undue financial hardship?

I was thinking an uncontested divorce with agreed to child support of one dollar and alimony of one dollar,

Actually she would only get a quarter, the government already takes half… but the important thing is that the family gets to keep my income, I already give her most of my income (except for some spending cash).

So would you establish two households [twice the rent/mortgage, utilities ] - live apart - give up marital relations …

- Are you for real …?

Theft, lies, deceit, … and you justify this behavior how?

You are either a scam artist or totally without scruples - or both

 

[royal_archer]

Not just immoral but illegal. It is cheating the system like this that screws everyone over.

Do you know what law it would break? Because I do want to work within the letter of the law.

As far as cheating the system, the system is designed to allow for this stuff, think about the 47% who pay no taxes or those who only pay a few thousand in taxes instead of their fair share, by not working harder, they are cheating the system. The government is raiding my wallet and handing out my money, I see nothing wrong with getting my money back as long as it is within the letter of the law.

As for the impact on everyone, well the only people who are being negatively impacted are the 20% who pay their fair share of taxes, of which I am one. so basically it is me trying to defend my family from all of the others who are on various welfare programs.

 

[YADA]

Do you know what law it would break? Because I do want to work within the letter of the law.

As far as cheating the system, the system is designed to allow for this stuff, think about the 47% who pay no taxes or those who only pay a few thousand in taxes instead of their fair share, by not working harder, they are cheating the system. The government is raiding my wallet and handing out my money, I see nothing wrong with getting my money back as long as it is within the letter of the law.

As for the impact on everyone, well the only people who are being negatively impacted are the 20% who pay their fair share of taxes, of which I am one. so basically it is me trying to defend my family from all of the others who are on various welfare programs.

Everybody does it …so that makes it okay

Do you intend to live separately? - two households? If not you are a lier and a cheat and a thief

 

[royal_archer]

So would you establish two households [twice the rent/mortgage, utilities ] - live apart - give up marital relations …

- Are you for real …?

Theft, lies, deceit, … and you justify this behavior how?

You are either a scam artist or totally without scruples - or both

I doubt that the majority of current welfare recipients are living chaste lives.

We were looking at a vacation/retirement property that could qualify as one residence if it was required. as for living apart, I barely see them anyway since I spend so many hours working.

How is it theft, I am trying to work within the laws as they are set up. If the law allows a divorced woman to receive a benefit and deny equal benefit to a non divorced woman, It would be merely adjusting status to accommodate the law.

Actually, any able bodied person who does not pay their fair share of taxes or who takes entitlements could be considered a scam artist. Would you call the 50% who pay no taxes or the 30% who pay less than $6000 per year in federal taxes scam artists? I am still paying my fair share, I just want to stop paying as much over my fair share as I have been.

 

[royal_archer]

Everybody does it …so that makes it okay

I am trying to find out if it can be done within the letter of the law. if it is within the law it is OK.

Do you intend to live separately? - two households? If not you are a lier and a cheat and a thief

No I intend to live as two loving people who have decided that being married (as defined in civil law) is not in their best interest. I intend to be very honest and within the letter of the law. I am not the one who wrote the laws which make if financially advantageous for two people to shack up instead of being married.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Could the reason be undue financial hardship?

I was thinking an uncontested divorce with agreed to child support of one dollar and alimony of one dollar,

The judge won’t sign off on this.

Actually she would only get a quarter, the government already takes half… but the important thing is that the family gets to keep my income, I already give her most of my income (except for some spending cash).

All support factors are based on pre tax income…I’m divorced and to say your screwed is an understatement.

 

[Jon_S_1]

As others have said - this would be illegal, immoral … and this is exactly why government should not be this involved in our lives …

When people don’t marry in order to obtain government subsidies and benefits and then also start divorcing and obtaining legal separations in order to gain government benefits … while living as married - that is a lie and theft … and our country is in moral decline and entering into a form of slavery …

It also implies that you have a right to obtain the financial support of your neighbors - that you attempt to justify it by saying you pay more taxes then others and therefor are entitled is absurd … it is theft …

Think of it this way …

How would you feel in this scenario … If you and your wife had two daughters. One was married to a man who had a good enough job to provide for her … they were doing well enough financially. Your other daughter struggled financially and needed assistance from you at times. Now - your son in law knew that you would never let his wife [your daughter] want for anything and together they decided to tell you that they were splitting up … not in reality - they would still be together in every sense - except just not tell you they were. Then your daughter comes to you and gets you to provide some additional financial assistance … This assistance makes their life easier - now your daughter and son in law can make their income spread farther and they can take that vacation …

Would you feel this was honest?

Is this behavior moral?

Is this the way you want them to think about your money … like its theirs to get by hook or crook?

Would you have respect for your son in law? Your daughter?

Well - the tax payers want the government to use the tax revenues wisely, not waste it, not give it to people who scam the system

THIS!!!

 

[Jon_S_1]

Do you know what law it would break? Because I do want to work within the letter of the law.

As far as cheating the system, the system is designed to allow for this stuff, think about the 47% who pay no taxes or those who only pay a few thousand in taxes instead of their fair share, by not working harder, they are cheating the system. The government is raiding my wallet and handing out my money, I see nothing wrong with getting my money back as long as it is within the letter of the law.

As for the impact on everyone, well the only people who are being negatively impacted are the 20% who pay their fair share of taxes, of which I am one. so basically it is me trying to defend my family from all of the others who are on various welfare programs.

If you make as much as you claim to, the there is no way that you will get her on welfare.

And if you do, it’s welfare fraud, and it will catch up with you.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I doubt that the majority of current welfare recipients are living chaste lives.

We were looking at a vacation/retirement property that could qualify as one residence if it was required. as for living apart, I barely see them anyway since I spend so many hours working.

How is it theft, I am trying to work within the laws as they are set up. If the law allows a divorced woman to receive a benefit and deny equal benefit to a non divorced woman, It would be merely adjusting status to accommodate the law.

Actually, any able bodied person who does not pay their fair share of taxes or who takes entitlements could be considered a scam artist. Would you call the 50% who pay no taxes or the 30% who pay less than $6000 per year in federal taxes scam artists? I am still paying my fair share, I just want to stop paying as much over my fair share as I have been.

So you go on welfare and separate from your wife to buy that vacation house.

That’s disgusting. What a low life.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I am trying to find out if it can be done within the letter of the law. if it is within the law it is OK.

No I intend to live as two loving people who have decided that being married (as defined in civil law) is not in their best interest. I intend to be very honest and within the letter of the law. I am not the one who wrote the laws which make if financially advantageous for two people to shack up instead of being married.

So you realize that when you apply for welfare, they ask for the household income. If you live together you declare both.

 

[royal_archer]

The judge won’t sign off on this.

OK, so it sounds like that is the area where this may fall apart.

All support factors are based on pre tax income…I’m divorced and to say your screwed is an understatement.

sorry to hear that. I am going into this with intent to not interfere with the true marriage but only impact the civil recognition of the arrangement so it would not reduce our total income. besides, if things went bad, I made a commitment for better or worse so everything I have is hers, and vice versa. She has every right to my income, the 66% of the US on welfare does not.

 

[royal_archer]

If you make as much as you claim to, the there is no way that you will get her on welfare.

And if you do, it’s welfare fraud, and it will catch up with you.

I make that money, she does not. And I do not intend to engage in any form of fraud, but if the law allows for something, I would like to take any legal opportunities to recover my income.