obamacare marital separation

[royal_archer]

So you go on welfare and separate from your wife to buy that vacation house.

That’s disgusting. What a low life.

That is not very polite.
I do not intend to go on welfare.

do you consider the 66% of Americans who are currently on some form of welfare “low lifes”?

I have been contributing to the system for decades and never received a penny of welfare. I am just trying to recover what I earned.

 

[royal_archer]

So you realize that when you apply for welfare, they ask for the household income. If you live together you declare both.

would this apply to a live in maid, nanny, etc. or other person to whom you are not related who happened to be living in your home and was making less than the poverty level?

 

[Jon_S_1]

That is not very polite.
I do not intend to go on welfare.

do you consider the 66% of Americans who are currently on some form of welfare “low lifes”?

I have been contributing to the system for decades and never received a penny of welfare. I am just trying to recover what I earned.

You drive on roads, and use schools and the courts and the military protects you, you have fire and police and ambulances and hospitals, you het mail at your door six days a week, water delivered in your house, gas, subsidized groceries, and farm products, medicine research and safety and on and on and on.

Welfare support is a very small part of your taxes.

Sorry but it is a low life thing to take welfare when you don’t need it, and there are tons who do need it.

 

[Jon_S_1]

would this apply to a live in maid, nanny, etc. or other person to whom you are not related who happened to be living in your home and was making less than the poverty level?

If the money they earn contributes to the living expenses of the home then yes.

And they ask for any bills, expenses paid to factor as income.

So if you pay her rent. It’s factored as income

Her cell phone. Income

Feed her. Income.

 

[royal_archer]

You drive on roads, and use schools and the courts and the military protects you, you have fire and police and ambulances and hospitals, you het mail at your door six days a week, water delivered in your house, gas, subsidized groceries, and farm products, medicine research and safety and on and on and on.

Welfare support is a very small part of your taxes.

Sorry but it is a low life thing to take welfare when you don’t need it, and there are tons who do need it.

many of the things you identified are paid for out of other taxes and the portion that comes out of federal taxes is very small except for defense and interest on the debt. I am not talking about not paying my fair portion of taxes, just not paying as much over my fair share as I have been. most people on welfare do not need it or have chosen to be in situations where it is “needed” of their own free will such as they have chosen to not get a job or they have chosen to have kids out of wed lock. unless you are willing to call every single mom on welfare a lowlife, you are being very unfair with your terminology.

Also, don’t get mad at me, I did not elect those in government who came up with these crazy rules.

 

[royal_archer]

If the money they earn contributes to the living expenses of the home then yes.

And they ask for any bills, expenses paid to factor as income.

So if you pay her rent. It’s factored as income

Her cell phone. Income

Feed her. Income.

Great thanks,

 

[royal_archer]

As others have said - this would be illegal, immoral … and this is exactly why government should not be this involved in our lives …

When people don’t marry in order to obtain government subsidies and benefits and then also start divorcing and obtaining legal separations in order to gain government benefits … while living as married - that is a lie and theft … and our country is in moral decline and entering into a form of slavery …

It also implies that you have a right to obtain the financial support of your neighbors - that you attempt to justify it by saying you pay more taxes then others and therefor are entitled is absurd … it is theft …

Theft implies to operate outside of the laws, which I do not intend to do. I agree that the country is in moral decline but if your home was ransacked by a mob and you saw your TV unattended on one of the looters trucks, would you recover it? If the police had property of yours that was taken against your consent and you had to go down and fill out paper work to get it back, would you?

To lie is to intend to deceive. we share a belief that marriage is a union with many conditions and such that includes marital relations, to deny this to the church would be a lie. But the secular legal system does not recognize a relationship where two people share a bed as a defacto marriage. they recognize marriage as a financial contractual relationship.

I am not asking for the financial support of my neighbors, but if my neighbors take my association dues and throw a big party, I will go down and have a beer and a hamburger, after all I have helped pay for it.

It is interesting how some in our society feel the only people not entitled to government hand outs are those who pay for them.

Think of it this way …

How would you feel in this scenario … If you and your wife had two daughters. One was married to a man who had a good enough job to provide for her … they were doing well enough financially. Your other daughter struggled financially and needed assistance from you at times. Now - your son in law knew that you would never let his wife [your daughter] want for anything and together they decided to tell you that they were splitting up … not in reality - they would still be together in every sense - except just not tell you they were. Then your daughter comes to you and gets you to provide some additional financial assistance … This assistance makes their life easier - now your daughter and son in law can make their income spread farther and they can take that vacation …

Would you feel this was honest?

Is this behavior moral?

Is this the way you want them to think about your money … like its theirs to get by hook or crook?

Would you have respect for your son in law? Your daughter?

Well - the tax payers want the government to use the tax revenues wisely, not waste it, not give it to people who scam the system

I agree with you in principle but not in application. Imagine if you had two daughters and one shacked up and the other got married. all else was equal. would you lavish the daughter who was shacking up with benefits, free housing, food, etc and not give equal to the daughter who was married? this is what is happening now. the government is handing out billions on the condition that the recipients not be married to bread winners.

 

[YADA]

I make that money, she does not. And I do not intend to engage in any form of fraud, but if the law allows for something, I would like to take any legal opportunities to recover my income.

What you are proposing - ending your legal marriage but not actually ending it - in order to take advantage of benefits is the very definition of fraud … and if your wife participates - she too is guilty of the same fraud …

 

[Et_Cetera]

Sounds like the OP just wants people to tell him that it’s okay to commit fraud. Seriously, stop trying to justify this. You don’t need welfare, and you’ll be taking money away from people who do…so you can do things like buy a beach house? Please, if you want to commit fraud or whatever, then hey it’s your life, but don’t try to tell yourself that it’s morally okay.

 

[royal_archer]

What you are proposing - ending your legal marriage but not actually ending it - in order to take advantage of benefits is the very definition of fraud … and if your wife participates - she too is guilty of the same fraud …

What I am proposing is researching to determine if there is a way to do it within the law and as such and by definition would not be fraud.

The civil contractual relationship would end, the spiritual, romantic relationship which is not recognized by the government would continue.

 

[Et_Cetera]

You drive on roads, and use schools and the courts and the military protects you, you have fire and police and ambulances and hospitals, you het mail at your door six days a week, water delivered in your house, gas, subsidized groceries, and farm products, medicine research and safety and on and on and on.

Welfare support is a very small part of your taxes.

Sorry but it is a low life thing to take welfare when you don’t need it, and there are tons who do need it.

Exactly. Do you consider yourself to be pro-life like so many on this forum? If so, are you really okay with taking resources away from kids? I can’t believe you’re even being serious with this stuff.

 

[Et_Cetera]

What I am proposing is researching to determine if there is a way to do it within the law and as such and by definition would not be fraud.

The civil contractual relationship would end, the spiritual, romantic relationship which is not recognized by the government would continue.

I mean, you’re just looking for legal loopholes…you have to know this isn’t right. If you do initially get away with it, you might still get caught, and your wife will be in trouble too.

 

[royal_archer]

Sounds like the OP just wants people to tell him that it’s okay to commit fraud. Seriously, stop trying to justify this. You don’t need welfare, and you’ll be taking money away from people who do…so you can do things like buy a beach house? Please, if you want to commit fraud or whatever, then hey it’s your life, but don’t try to tell yourself that it’s morally okay.

No one said “beach house” so I believe that you may be reading things into this based on something other than what was written.

I don’t “need” a tax write off for donating money to charity but I am entitled to take it if I am operating within the law.

What I am trying to do is understand the law so I can take advantage of what money we (my wife) would be legally entitled to if we went through a civil divorce.

The whole system is corrupted beyond repair so I don’t thing my money going to my wife is any less moral than it going to some other woman who chooses to not be in a legal civil marriage.

 

[Jon_S_1]

many of the things you identified are paid for out of other taxes and the portion that comes out of federal taxes is very small except for defense and interest on the debt. I am not talking about not paying my fair portion of taxes, just not paying as much over my fair share as I have been. most people on welfare do not need it or have chosen to be in situations where it is “needed” of their own free will such as they have chosen to not get a job or they have chosen to have kids out of wed lock. unless you are willing to call every single mom on welfare a lowlife, you are being very unfair with your terminology.

Also, don’t get mad at me, I did not elect those in government who came up with these crazy rules.

Source for “most people on welfare don’t need it”

Also who gets to determine what “their fair share is?”

 

[royal_archer]

Exactly. Do you consider yourself to be pro-life like so many on this forum? If so, are you really okay with taking resources away from kids? I can’t believe you’re even being serious with this stuff.

It would not be taking resources away from kids, it would be routing resources to other kids.

Are you chastising the current welfare recipients who could be working or could be married but are not?

 

[Jon_S_1]

If you want to “be within the law”

Then go for it.

In family court spell out word for word in your petition why you are separating, and describe how you plan to defraud the government.

If the judge says greet then your good.

If she throws you in jail then that’s great too.

 

[YADA]

Theft implies to operate outside of the laws, which I do not intend to do. I agree that the country is in moral decline but if your home was ransacked by a mob and you saw your TV unattended on one of the looters trucks, would you recover it? If the police had property of yours that was taken against your consent and you had to go down and fill out paper work to get it back, would you?

If there is aid for divorced- single women and you divorce on paper but not in actuality - then you are breaking the letter, intent and spirit of the law … that is a fraud - you can try to change that reality and justify it all you want - that does not change the reality … your divorce itself would be a fraudulent action - the welfare - insurance fraud would be a secondary crime … and in no way would this be honorable or moral

To lie is to intend to deceive. we share a belief that marriage is a union with many conditions and such that includes marital relations, to deny this to the church would be a lie. But the secular legal system does not recognize a relationship where two people share a bed as a defacto marriage. they recognize marriage as a financial contractual relationship.

But if you divorce legally - solely to game the system - you are making a mockery of the sacrament and it is indeed an intent to lie … divorce filings and decrees are posted in the paper … you exist as a married couple - both civilly and sacra-mentally … if you deny one to cheat the system - God and your community will know this - that the secular society operates on a different level does not give you license to lie cheat and steal …

I am not asking for the financial support of my neighbors, but if my neighbors take my association dues and throw a big party, I will go down and have a beer and a hamburger, after all I have helped pay for it.

Not relevant

It is interesting how some in our society feel the only people not entitled to government hand outs are those who pay for them.

Again - not relevant to this discussion …However, you are picking and choosing what you consider a government good/handout/necessity …and whether you have or are getting your share … Personally - I said this is exactly why we should get government out of our lives … we should not become dependent on sending money to Washington DC in order to get it handed back to us - and then trying to figure out how we can get our fair share back [or more then our fair share - or how to game the system at all] … And just because others do bad things - is no excuse for you - or me to do something wrong

I agree with you in principle but not in application. Imagine if you had two daughters and one shacked up and the other got married. all else was equal. would you lavish the daughter who was shacking up with benefits, free housing, food, etc and not give equal to the daughter who was married? this is what is happening now. the government is handing out billions on the condition that the recipients not be married to bread winners.

In your scenario both should be told to straighten up. While I would not enable a child in lifestyle choices that are immoral - like shacking up … I also would not want to be scammed = played for the fool either …

It is not one or the other - both are wrong … neither is acceptable … not you scamming the system - and not the others who are scamming the system either … that some people do defraud welfare does not make it right for you to do the same … and I wonder why you think it should …

 

[royal_archer]

I mean, you’re just looking for legal loopholes…you have to know this isn’t right. If you do initially get away with it, you might still get caught, and your wife will be in trouble too.

I intend to operate within the law, perhaps stating that a few dozen times was not being clear enough.

As for being “right” why is it right for one lady to get a bunch of my money from the government but not for my wife to get my money?

 

[Jon_S_1]

It would not be taking resources away from kids, it would be routing resources to other kids.

Are you chastising the current welfare recipients who could be working or could be married but are not?

You want to be one of them.

In fact worse than one of them.

 

[royal_archer]

Source for “most people on welfare don’t need it”

Also who gets to determine what “their fair share is?”

personal observation, and the total cost of government divided by number of adults.