obamacare marital separation

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YADA said:
If there is aid for divorced- single women and you divorce on paper but not in actuality - then you are breaking the letter, intent and spirit of the law … that is a fraud - you can try to change that reality and justify it all you want - that does not change the reality … your divorce itself would be a fraudulent action - the welfare - insurance fraud would be a secondary crime … and in no way would this be honorable or moral

But if you divorce legally - solely to game the system - you are making a mockery of the sacrament and it is indeed an intent to lie … divorce filings and decrees are posted in the paper … you exist as a married couple - both civilly and sacra-mentally … if you deny one to cheat the system - God and your community will know this - that the secular society operates on a different level does not give you license to lie cheat and steal …

Not relevant

Again - not relevant to this discussion …However, you are picking and choosing what you consider a government good/handout/necessity …and whether you have or are getting your share … Personally - I said this is exactly why we should get government out of our lives … we should not become dependent on sending money to Washington DC in order to get it handed back to us - and then trying to figure out how we can get our fair share back [or more then our fair share - or how to game the system at all] … And just because others do bad things - is no excuse for you - or me to do something wrong

In your scenario both should be told to straighten up. While I would not enable a child in lifestyle choices that are immoral - like shacking up … I also would not want to be scammed = played for the fool either …

It is not one or the other - both are wrong … neither is acceptable … not you scamming the system - and not the others who are scamming the system either … that some people do defraud welfare does not make it right for you to do the same … 😦 and I wonder why you think it should …
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Once again I am looking for information on options to do this within the bounds of the law. therefore no fraud and no deception.

As for the issue of being married with out a civil union and the issue of scandal, it is something that I considered and have not been able to rectify.

as for scamming the system, that implies a matter of opinion. Is everyone who donates to charity to get a tax write off scamming the system? That would be a plausible opinion, but the facts are related to the law. I have tried to be very clear here that I do not intend to commit any type of fraud but intend to only take advantage of what is allowed by law.
 
royal_archer said:
I intend to operate within the law, perhaps stating that a few dozen times was not being clear enough.

As for being “right” why is it right for one lady to get a bunch of my money from the government but not for my wife to get my money?
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No you do not … You want to be married in all but the legality [that’s shacking up] … the fact that you had a Sacramental marriage - professed before God and your community - that you are willing to tear asunder - a marriage that you want to turn into a farce for money you would not otherwise qualify for is theft … you may get away with it, you may feel justified and you may enjoy the fruits of this theft … but it remains theft, and lies …

Sorry … lots of crooks do research - every crook thinks they can pull off the perfect crime … white collar crime or low life crime … it makes no matter if you are Bernie Maddoff scamming millionaires or the local punk knocking up his girlfriend and living in the section 8 housing that comes with that life style …

You and your wife live in a community - your actions speak loudly - and they inform your priorities … and lip service aside - you have little respect for that oneness of marriage you claim …
 
Jon_S said:
You want to be one of them.

In fact worse than one of them.
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Technically, I would not be, my wife would be one of them (welfare recipients).

I do not like the laws and wish we were not paying people not to work and not to get married. however, the law of the land applies to everyone. If you don’t like it maybe you should work to have the law changed, not attack those looking to follow the law.
 
royal_archer said:
personal observation, and the total cost of government divided by number of adults.
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Ok,

4.1% of Americans receive welfare.

Welfare costs the US $131 billion annually.

Total federal budget is $3.8 trillion

So that means 3.4% of federal budget is welfare.

So 3.4% of your taxes go to welfare.

If you make $100,000 a year you pay about 12,0000 in taxes

So 3.4% of that is $430.

You want to do all this fraud, mortal sin family division over the fact you pay $430 a year to help those who are in a bad spot? Even if some abuse that system?
 
royal_archer said:
Technically, I would not be, my wife would be one of them (welfare recipients).

I do not like the laws and wish we were not paying people not to work and not to get married. however, the law of the land applies to everyone. If you don’t like it maybe you should work to have the law changed, not attack those looking to follow the law.
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You disgust me. I’m done. Run it over with your priest if your so proud of this.
 
YADA said:
No you do not … You want to be married in all but the legality [that’s shacking up] … the fact that you had a Sacramental marriage - professed before God and your community - that you are willing to tear asunder - a marriage that you want to turn into a farce for money you would not otherwise qualify for is theft … you may get away with it, you may feel justified and you may enjoy the fruits of this theft … but it remains theft, and lies …

Sorry … lots of crooks do research - every crook thinks they can pull off the perfect crime … white collar crime or low life crime … it makes no matter if you are Bernie Maddoff scamming millionaires or the local punk knocking up his girlfriend and living in the section 8 housing that comes with that life style …

You and your wife live in a community - your actions speak loudly - and they inform your priorities … and lip service aside - you have little respect for that oneness of marriage you claim …
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Actually I have little respect for a government contraption that treats gay unions, serial polygamy, and other in appropriate relationships like marriage. Interesting how these posts have been so venomous towards someone who wishes to provide a better life for their family. Do you all have the same animosity towards the remaining 66% of people who are on some form of government assistance?
 
royal_archer said:
Technically, I would not be, my wife would be one of them (welfare recipients).

I do not like the laws and wish we were not paying people not to work and not to get married. however, the law of the land applies to everyone. If you don’t like it maybe you should work to have the law changed, not attack those looking to follow the law.
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Again - that any other person breaks a law or takes advantage of a law does not make it okay for you to ignore, break or take advantage …

If you don’t like the law or laws - then it is incumbent upon you to work with others to get the law changed … you do that by working through the system in place to do that - not becoming part of the problem - part of the entitlement society …

One reason there are so many people like the ones you are riling against and feel cheated by is because people like you decide to join the gravy train … read your posts … all those people you complain about probably all have similar if not the same excuses for their behavior as you do …

And many laws promote legal actions that are immoral …

Oh yes - and I like that … you would not be a welfare recipient - you would just be making your wife into one … that’s a real Sacramental - we are one body - one flesh attitude for you :rolleyes:
 
royal_archer said:
Actually I have little respect for a government contraption that treats gay unions, serial polygamy, and other in appropriate relationships like marriage. Interesting how these posts have been so venomous towards someone who wishes to provide a better life for their family. Do you all have the same animosity towards the remaining 66% of people who are on some form of government assistance?
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Where do you get 66% from .

4% is the number.

You make up your own math apparently
 
Jon_S said:
Ok,

4.1% of Americans receive welfare.

Welfare costs the US $131 billion annually.

Total federal budget is $3.8 trillion

So that means 3.4% of federal budget is welfare.

So 3.4% of your taxes go to welfare.

If you make $100,000 a year you pay about 12,0000 in taxes

So 3.4% of that is $430.

You want to do all this fraud, mortal sin family division over the fact you pay $430 a year to help those who are in a bad spot? Even if some abuse that system?
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That is only one form of welfare, there are numerous food stamp programs. I was referring to welfare in the broader sense as all entitlements.

heritage.org/federalbudget/budget-entitlement-programs
 
royal_archer said:
Do you have to declare a reason for a civil separation? What is the fraud according to the letter of the law. Yes it might be a misrepresentation of intent but I am not sure how it would be any different than two people who have marital relations but decided not to get married in order to avoid loosing welfare benefits, etc. If there are an nuances necessary to avoid committing fraud, I’d like to know what they are. As I said, I want to operate within the letter of the law.

As for Morally, the moral union would remain intact as witnessed by the church and inseparable. I am purely talking about the civil aspect of the union which carries no moral weight.

By the way, I am not trying to get something for nothing, I pay well above my fair share of taxes, I just want to stop paying so far above my fair share. Besides there are many single women benefiting from the taxes I pay, why shouldn’t my own wife be able to get some of that money?
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And yes it is done all the time with unmarried people with kids living together. They can’t marry because the government will lower their benefits. Most of them aren’t working–and I suspect you are. Obamacare is killing a lot of us. And yes it’s pretty sad when our government backs us into corners where we even have to consider such options to simply survive on our salary–isn’t it. Remember this moment in 2014!
 
royal_archer said:
Actually I have little respect for a government contraption that treats gay unions, serial polygamy, and other in appropriate relationships like marriage. Interesting how these posts have been so venomous towards someone who wishes to provide a better life for their family. Do you all have the same animosity towards the remaining 66% of people who are on some form of government assistance?
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Okay … I get that you oppose government programs - while at the same time are conniving [yes that is the correct term] to get into that gravy train … you have so little respect for your wife that you claim [with what appears to be pride] - that:

you would not be on welfare - your wife would …
you make all the money - your wife has none …

I will say it again … if someone else cheats and steals - that does not make it right for you to behave in the same way
 
royal_archer said:
heritage.org/federalbudget/budget-entitlement-programs
the exact number varies from year to year and by how the various sources add up the details. But this essentially explains where I am getting that number.
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Yeah, and you think all the old people in the nursing homes should get off their butts and get to work.
You say
“I don’t care that you are 95 and have cancer grandma, get your *** to work and don’t think I’m paying for your chemo you old bag.”
 
Starrsmother said:
And yes it is done all the time with unmarried people with kids living together. They can’t marry because the government will lower their benefits. Most of them aren’t working–and I suspect you are. Obamacare is killing a lot of us. And yes it’s pretty sad when our government backs us into corners where we even have to consider such options to simply survive on our salary–isn’t it. Remember this moment in 2014!
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The fact that unmarried persons live together and apply for public assistance -when they should not and when it is not needed does not make it appropriate or legal for someone to do the same thing …

And we should reduce welfare fraud - not condone it …

My mother will sometimes complain about someone getting disability insurance because that can’t work but they can go do strenuous hobbies - People get away with this stuff because their family and friends are complicit in that fraud … I think it is incumbent upon us to let people know that cheating is not appropriate … and Royal Archer - it is not appropriate
 
YADA said:
Okay … I get that you oppose government programs - while at the same time are conniving [yes that is the correct term] to get into that gravy train …
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yes, I am trying to figure out how to participate in the gravy train. The majority of Americans have choosen this path and I wish to join them.
YADA said:
you have so little respect for your wife that you claim [with what appears to be pride] - that:you would not be on welfare - your wife would …
you make all the money - your wife has none …
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you are taking those out of the intended context. they were factual clarifications not prideful claims.
YADA said:
I will say it again … if someone else cheats and steals - that does not make it right for you to behave in the same way
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The problem with your assertion is that I do not intend to cheat or steal. I intend to work within the laws that our society has established. and engage, to some extent, in the behavior our society has chosen to reward.
 
royal_archer said:
yes, I am trying to figure out how to participate in the gravy train. The majority of Americans have choosen this path and I wish to join them.

you are taking those out of the intended context. they were factual clarifications not prideful claims.

The problem with your assertion is that I do not intend to cheat or steal. I intend to work within the laws that our society has established. and engage, to some extent, in the behavior our society has chosen to reward.
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Once again this is false

At highest estimates there are 80 million people receiving food and welfare benefits. That is about 20%

Not the majority.
 
Jon_S said:
Oh I see

So you lump in senior citizens who paid a lifetime into Medicare and social security into the low life’s that are a using the welfare system

This thread gets more disgusting.
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it isn’t just the elderly getting back what they put in, it is a lot of people who are getting back dollars after putting in pennies, many people reap much more from Social Security than they put in. It also is paying out money to people who have never worked a day in their life.

So why should my wife, who is disabled not be able to get a disability check from social security solely because she is married to me?
 
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