Obama's Health Care "Reform" Bill

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I don’t know if this subject has been addressed yet. But I just received an email - and am more scared of the current “president” (using term/title only out of necessity here) than ever.

As if abortion wasn’t enough, Pages 425-430 (roughly) address MANDATORY COUNSELING on Assisted Suicide for seniors on Social Security (Medicare?) - EVERY FIVE YEARS…That is, they have to take this counseling every five years - to learn how to kill themselves, if I’m understanding correctly6. I haven’t read it and trying to find link verbatim - but it sounds as though - whether or not you’re a senior (I’m not but —) ----- be afraid - Be VERY, VERY AFRAID.

I can’t help but wonder why our Pope hasn’t been verbal on this, particularly after meeting with Obama (I won’t address him as president). Presidents have the good of their country and its citizens at heart. This “reform bill” doesn’t sound that way to me.
 
ConservativeOne said:
As if abortion wasn’t enough, Pages 425-430 (roughly) address MANDATORY COUNSELING on Assisted Suicide for seniors on Social Security (Medicare?) - EVERY FIVE YEARS…That is, they have to take this counseling every five years - to learn how to kill themselves, if I’m understanding correctly6. I haven’t read it and trying to find link verbatim - but it sounds as though - whether or not you’re a senior (I’m not but —) ----- be afraid - Be VERY, VERY AFRAID.
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I just read those pages of the bill. It did not mention assisted suicide at all. Please read the relevant section of the bill:

thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111yOeW9p:e513253:
 
klh24 said:
I just read those pages of the bill. It did not mention assisted suicide at all. Please read the relevant section of the bill:

thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111yOeW9p:e513253:
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Thanks - but the link had expired (???)
I will further research - but from what I’m hearing, while it may not mention those words - I’m thinking it’s probable in theory. Aside from saying that, I will have to research - I have already found it being discussed in numerous places online…
 
hammj said:
Hi. Do you have a current link to the actual text of the bill? I’ve only listened to commentary on it so far, which is very alarming:

fredthompsonshow.com/premiumstream?dispid=320&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD03MzUxJnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0JmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzIwJnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT01

Thanks for any information you can provide.
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I don’t think the actual text of the bill is available. That is why they want to shove it through before anyone knows what it actually says. Raymond Arroyo had a very informative show on “The World Over”, Friday night. It is not in the archives yet.

Here is what he says in his blog:

ewtn.com/news/blog.asp?blog_ID=2
 
What is equally frightening to me is that there is no “conscience clause”, as the bill is now written. Therefore the Catholic hospitals would either have to close or “cave”.

Can’t you see the government just licking their chops to take over all those closed facilities?

Abortuaries and euthanasia centers already in place and ready to go!
 
hammj said:
Hi. Do you have a current link to the actual text of the bill? I’ve only listened to commentary on it so far, which is very alarming:

fredthompsonshow.com/premiumstream?dispid=320&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD03MzUxJnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0JmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzIwJnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT01

Thanks for any information you can provide.
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I was wrong. It is available. I stole this from another thread. Thanks bcarson.

defendyourhealthcare.us/houseandsenatebills.html
 
THANK YOU, INDYANN for pointing us to the House Bill (HR 3200) and to Raymond Arroyo’s column. Now age 65 with an older sister and a 92 mother-in-law, the end of life issues are on my personal radar. (I’ve 24 years in actual radar operations as well, but that is another story :))

My second career was in accounting and auditing - keeping government honest (at least not making mistakes or finding them and correcting them) as best we can.

A key component of any well run financial organization is “separation of duties” to prevent abuse. No one person is allowed to control more than one phase of business operations. Separation of duties provide for reasonable checks and balances to reduce the risk of misuse of funds.

The proposed LEGAL requirement in HR 3200, pg 425, et seq, to counsel seniors every 5 years on end of life issues (6 times from age 65 to 90) sounds good on the surface, BUT, the counseling is coming from the SAME organization that pays for your medical care. The principle of separation of duties is being violated here.

If the government has to pay for your care, it is better for the government if it can talk you into accepting a cheaper care program. **Money becomes more valuable than life itself. **Government bureaucrats certainly don’t know that much about you and your family and your perosnal values. Senior bureaucrats usually see themselves **as the “expert” whose values are better than yours. **And junior government bureaucrats are required to go by rules and know not to advocate against their bosses wishes if they want to keep their jobs and get promoted.

Perhaps we all should re-read George Orwell’s “1984”.

And my 9th grade Sister was right in 1959 when she explained the dangers of euthansia. Of course, it NOT euthansia if you don’t call it that.

Time to write our Congressmen, Senators, and the President !
 
Hi folks, I heard this morning that a ‘gang of 6’ (3 Republicans/ 3 Democrats) are finalizing some sort of middle ground for the senate version of the bill. They mentioned that the Dems agreed to remove some stuff that was important to them, but couldn’t find anything on whether abortion protections were included.

Has anyone heard anything on this?
 
ConservativeOne said:
I don’t know if this subject has been addressed yet. But I just received an email - and am more scared of the current “president” (using term/title only out of necessity here) than ever.

As if abortion wasn’t enough, Pages 425-430 (roughly) address MANDATORY COUNSELING on Assisted Suicide for seniors on Social Security (Medicare?) - EVERY FIVE YEARS…That is, they have to take this counseling every five years - to learn how to kill themselves, if I’m understanding correctly6. I haven’t read it and trying to find link verbatim - but it sounds as though - whether or not you’re a senior (I’m not but —) ----- be afraid - Be VERY, VERY AFRAID.

I can’t help but wonder why our Pope hasn’t been verbal on this, particularly after meeting with Obama (I won’t address him as president). Presidents have the good of their country and its citizens at heart. This “reform bill” doesn’t sound that way to me.
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I have to Agree with you. I was very upset that our Pope didn’t discuss our belief’s as Catholics. I saw yesterday on the news here in Louisiana that the Catholic Church was behind the Health Reform Bill. God help us. Pray for our Country and where it is going. Believe me it is not Heaven at this rate.

God Bless you
 
Instead of a thousand pages of totalitarianism, we COULD instead go the route of allowing more freedom and allowing the competition of the marketplace to give us less expensive, higher quality healthcare tailored to each person’s individual needs.

For example, [and just ONE example], HSA’s would improve health care without wrecking the budget … that is the headline in Human Events’ paper copy newspaper dated July 27, 2009 … front page. The authors are Daniel Perrin and Richard Nadler.

If you just google “perrin nadler HSA” you come up with a large number of interesting articles.

Here is just one of many:

txccri.org/publications/HSA%20Primer.pdf

There are a lot of really excellent approaches, many of which have been tried successfully, but which have been restricted by the Federal and state governments.

Freedom and free markets do better than government solutions.
 
Al_Masetti said:
For example, [and just ONE example], HSA’s would improve health care without wrecking the budget … that is the headline in Human Events’ paper copy newspaper dated July 27, 2009 … front page. The authors are Daniel Perrin and Richard Nadler.
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But, we’ve had HSA’s in this country for over a decade and they haven’t help yet.
 
Good Morning.
I’m a Senior too, and alarmed by ALL the onrushing TERRORS which the Obama Gang is trying to foist on us. Abortion, Euthanasia, are only the tent-pins of the program, and you can soon expect to see withdrawal of support for the mentally and physically impaired. What will be next? For the “possibilities”, think back, research the rise of Naziism during the 30s. The parallels between Hitler and Obama are incredible, and this juggernaut rolls in with increasing speed. God help us! Blessed Mother, protect us!
But, for WHY the Holy Father hasn’t done something: He HAS spoken out. Read his encyclicals. He does NOT support Obama’s programs.
But, he is a Head of State – of the Vatican, and if he were to publically condemn or comment on the internal workings of another country or state, the public outcry – from Americans would be deafening. You’d hear screeching then about his “interference” and his meddling into somebody else’s business. This is a complicated world, and all of us, even the Holy Father, have no choice, but to play by the rules. He walks a tighter line than the rest of us.
Sadly, we (the editorial ‘we’, because I sure didn’t vote for him!) elected this horror. We chose him to be our ‘big daddy’ and to provide the paternalism we wanted; we chose him to ‘take care’ of us because we didn’t want to have to do it ourselves, we chose him to be our “wubby” (he said it, I didn’t), and now he’s doing what he wants. We gave him the power of the most powerful office in the world, without knowing his past, his goals, his character, his faith (there! I’ve said it!) or anything about him, except that he talks a good show. Well, now he has the power, and it will be used against us. And while he’s building his ovens with one hand, he will be patting us on the collective head with the other, all the while talking in his sonorous, hypnotic, lulling and constant voice to put us to sleep, so we won’t see what’s going on.
Fascinating,.:eek:
 
This bill is stealth-FOCA. Abortion is not mentioned but everyone on both sides has said or implied that it is included, unless of course they’re talking to pro-life people. Then they say, “The bill doesn’t say anything about abortion”. Whatever happened to the Obama’s supposed dedication to transparency?

Besides that, I don’t like the government becoming a competitor by creating their own “public option”. Look at what’s happened with the “public option” in education. For many, the “public option” is now the only option, unless you’re wealthy enough to afford the private option. What kind of business can compete with a competitor who can always rely on receiving a portion of all customers’ money (taxes) whether they buy their product or not? The result is institutions which force people to succumb in some degree to that institution’s ideology which is against their own. The only real choice will eventually be to either like it or not like it.
 
The bill will require you to talk to a representative every five years about “living will” how you want your health to be covered when you are about to die. The fact that they want to consul the elderly MAY mean they want to reduce costs and will present you with various options. i.e. it will save your family money. It will be painless
At this point no one knows however, I do not want some group deciding that the insurance mortality rates for my age show I don’t have much time to live and should go in peace. We all have individual genetic codes we are not located on anyones bell curve.
 
Instead of a thousand pages of totalitarianism, we COULD instead go the route of allowing more freedom and allowing the competition of the marketplace to give us less expensive, higher quality healthcare tailored to each person’s individual needs.
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Oh yes! That’s the answer…oh…wait…that’s what we have now…

The status quo is NOT the answer. Americans pay more per person for healthcare than any other country in the world, and we’re NOT getting what we pay for.

Hard working citizens with insurance coverage should not be one serious illness or accident away from bankruptcy. Changing jobs should not leave people in fear of losing medical coverage because they have a pre-existing condition. Medical choices should not be made by those whose first responsibility is to make a profit for their company.

Is the current House/Senate plan the answer? Probably not, but the opposition party did nothing when they had the chance, leaving it up for grabs now. Americans know that the status quo doesn’t serve everyone fairly and they know it’s unsustainable. Personally, I would like to see the FEHB get extended as an option for every citizen. That plan allows the person to choose from a variety of private plans to get what is best for their family. The savings comes from the large number of people involved spreading out the risk.
 
First a question - Would it be inappropriate for me to alert my grandparents to the 'Euthanasia sounding counseling"? It feels strange to do so, but this is such a drastic bill!
Second - this morning on EWTN I also heard that this bill would set up health facilities at public institutions to provide comprehensive health coverager. I can not remember the exact wording but it sound code for sex ed to elementarey schools and birth control for the masses.
 
If the government has failed miserably with health care through the VA and Medicare and Medicaid (and it has), how can they possibly expect it to not fail on even a grander scale when extending coverage to so many times more people?

No, I don’t believe even many of the Democrats think that the government can run health care well. I think this is just an underhanded attempt at promoting their Culture of Death through false pretenses. If nothing else the government has ever done with health care has proven its value, then the only reasonable expectation is just to promote state rule and certain social “values.”

I believe we must all pray hard, because I really do think Satan is powerfully behind all this; his agents have been working overtime throughout the West since early last century to destroy our respect for life and human dignity. And now in this country he has eager human agents in control. Our government is our own worst enemy. Do not trust easily; do not give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
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