Obedience to Husbands?

[iCatholic]

I was having a heated debate with my girlfriend about marriage.

Not US being married…but marriage itself.

As Catholics, (and the majority of our Church’s tradition has been greatly…wives obey your husbands!..though im not sure if that was Church theology or just the way those times were)

Do we follow the Biblical requests that husbands ‘rule’ the household?

Can that fit in a modern lifestyle?

 

[EmBee]

I’m engaged to be married to a wonderful cradle Catholic who is very “in charge”. I am, however, a Catholic convert who’s never given much thought to the submissive aspect of being a wife … until now. Using the word “job” loosely, this is what I’ve come up with:

1. Everyone’s job is to listen to God and do what He wills.
2. A husband’s specific job is to love his wife as he would love Christ.
3. A woman’s specific job is to respect her husband, knowing that his decisions are founded on a faith in God.

So from here, I’ve got an understanding that, in a perfect world, my husband will do all things thru Christ. That being said, I believe all decisions in a marriage ought to be worked on together. Unfortunately, there is bound to be a time (or two …) thruout the course of a marriage when husband and wife disagree. In this situation, I would defer that the husband has to make the ultimate decision - keeping in mind that his ultimate duty is to follow God and love his wife.

Again, I’m not married yet, so I don’t know how this works in real-life, but it’s what I’ve come up with so far.

–

 

[iCatholic]

I’m engaged to be married to a wonderful cradle Catholic who is very “in charge”. I am, however, a Catholic convert who’s never given much thought to the submissive aspect of being a wife … until now. Using the word “job” loosely, this is what I’ve come up with:

1. Everyone’s job is to listen to God and do what He wills.
2. A husband’s specific job is to love his wife as he would love Christ.
3. A woman’s specific job is to respect her husband, knowing that his decisions are founded on a faith in God.

So from here, I’ve got an understanding that, in a perfect world, my husband will do all things thru Christ. That being said, I believe all decisions in a marriage ought to be worked on together. Unfortunately, there is bound to be a time (or two …) thruout the course of a marriage when husband and wife disagree. In this situation, I would defer that the husband has to make the ultimate decision - keeping in mind that his ultimate duty is to follow God and love his wife.

Again, I’m not married yet, so I don’t know how this works in real-life, but it’s what I’ve come up with so far.

–

Of course.

But I mean my question in a much more, daily life sense.

Like the Old Testament would get into ridiculous specifics on how daily life should be executed.

I just wonder, the traditional role of husband and wife, doesnt that limit a wife’s role to simply a homemaker?

Hmn.

As a male, that doesnt sound TOO unappealing.

Haha… only joking.

Sort of.

 

[EmBee]

Also …

IMHO words like “rule” and “obey” when used in this context are, shall we say, fightin’ words

–

 

[EmBee]

Of course.

But I mean my question in a much more, daily life sense.

Like the Old Testament would get into ridiculous specifics on how daily life should be executed.

I just wonder, the traditional role of husband and wife, doesnt that limit a wife’s role to simply a homemaker?

Hmn.

As a male, that doesnt sound TOO unappealing.

Haha… only joking.

Sort of.

Ahh, I see. It’s hard (for me, at least) to know where women stand in the Church when compared to the secular world. But, your question: Is a wife’s role limited to being a homemaker? My short answer is no. There are a few SAH Catholic Dads on this forum that would probably back me up on that. Also, many families in which both parents work either out of necessity or want. There are many ways to follow Christ. I suggest your girlfriend read “The Authentic Catholic Woman” - I just finished it yesterday, and it was pretty good.

amazon.com/Authentic-Catholic-Woman-Genevieve-Kineke/dp/0867167688/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217593678&sr=8-1

–

 

[GhostMan]

If you worry about your end: Loving your wife as Christ loved the Church, her end will be easy.

 

[Dori1]

I was having a heated debate with my girlfriend about marriage.

Not US being married…but marriage itself.

As Catholics, (and the majority of our Church’s tradition has been greatly…wives obey your husbands!..though im not sure if that was Church theology or just the way those times were)

Do we follow the Biblical requests that husbands ‘rule’ the household?

Can that fit in a modern lifestyle?

Being a convert and soon to be catholic, I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer, but I hope it’s okay if I put in my 2 cents. My hubby and I have looked at this from the biblical point of view (having both come up in the protestant culture). It’s not so much “rule the household” as it is that the husband is the spiritual head of the household. I agree with the previous reply that states that the husband is to "love his wife as Christ loved the church. Yikes! I’m quite happy with my role which is to defer to him when we disagree!

Ultimately, my husband will stand before the Lord and answer for his actions in leading our household in a godly fashion. Christ died for the church; that’s a huge responsibility to lay at my husband’s feet. I’m happy to take the more submissive role. He consults me in areas where my expertise exceeds his. I defer to him in areas where he is more expert. When neither of us has expertise, we try to discuss matters together. But as said by the previous poster, there are times when we are at loggerheads. At those times, I feel, the wife should defer to her husband and trust the Lord to guide his judgement.

As for whether that means that women are only homemakers, I don’t think so. I do feel that a woman’s primary focus should be the home. But if you read Proverbs 31, I think you’ll agree that the description of a “virtuous woman” is definitely a working mother of the time. She sells her wares and plants a vineyard with the earnings, etc. She works hard, in and out of the home but the focus is on the care of her family. (I only wish I could “rise early to provide portions for my servants”).

I’m a physician executive in a large institution, so I might be a little biased in my interpretation. I’m also new to the Catholic faith, though I’ve been studying the sacred scriptures for many years. God has blessed my marriage greatly, and I’ve always thought that obedience to these concepts was a part of the reason.

Just my thoughts. I’m certainly not an expert that anyone should listen to. Like I said, I’m new to Catholicism.

Dori

 

[whatevergirl]

Being a convert and soon to be catholic, I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer, but I hope it’s okay if I put in my 2 cents. My hubby and I have looked at this from the biblical point of view (having both come up in the protestant culture). It’s not so much “rule the household” as it is that the husband is the spiritual head of the household. I agree with the previous reply that states that the husband is to "love his wife as Christ loved the church. Yikes! I’m quite happy with my role which is to defer to him when we disagree!

Ultimately, my husband will stand before the Lord and answer for his actions in leading our household in a godly fashion. Christ died for the church; that’s a huge responsibility to lay at my husband’s feet. I’m happy to take the more submissive role. He consults me in areas where my expertise exceeds his. I defer to him in areas where he is more expert. When neither of us has expertise, we try to discuss matters together. But as said by the previous poster, there are times when we are at loggerheads. At those times, I feel, the wife should defer to her husband and trust the Lord to guide his judgement.

As for whether that means that women are only homemakers, I don’t think so. I do feel that a woman’s primary focus should be the home. But if you read Proverbs 31, I think you’ll agree that the description of a “virtuous woman” is definitely a working mother of the time. She sells her wares and plants a vineyard with the earnings, etc. She works hard, in and out of the home but the focus is on the care of her family. (I only wish I could “rise early to provide portions for my servants”).

I’m a physician executive in a large institution, so I might be a little biased in my interpretation. I’m also new to the Catholic faith, though I’ve been studying the sacred scriptures for many years. God has blessed my marriage greatly, and I’ve always thought that obedience to these concepts was a part of the reason.

Just my thoughts. I’m certainly not an expert that anyone should listen to. Like I said, I’m new to Catholicism.

Dori

I think your post is very much–right on. Good insight…and thanks for the post!

I have been a stay at home mom, and I currently work outside of the home–and my family always comes first. I also believe that a man needs to put his family above his career as well. It takes two to create a baby, both are needed to raise him/her. My husband is the head of the household, but we both make decisions collectively, to be honest. That is what will enable a marriage to thrive. Mutual respect. And, mutual sacrifice.

Welcome to the faith, Dori!

 

[1ke]

I just wonder, the traditional role of husband and wife, doesnt that limit a wife’s role to simply a homemaker?

Read Proverbs 31 and then get back to us on the role of women in ancient times.

 

[JimO]

My wife and I have been married 18 years and I truly believe that we have struck a balance in this area. What other posters have said regarding the husband’s role carrying a heavy weight of responsibility is true, provided that he is truly seeking God’s will and not his own. Being the spiritual head of the house doesn’t mean having veto power. It means being accountable to God for the spiritual health of the family. It means being the one to suggest saying the family rosary. It means waking up the teenagers and making sure they get ready for Mass early. It means having a prayer time both to stay in touch with God’s will and to be an example to the kids, particularly boys, so they see their faith as manly. It means getting up on Saturday occasionally and taking the kids to daily Mass. It means making breakfast on Sunday so Mom can have an uninterrupted prayer time.

On the rare occasion that my wife and I disagree on something, she does defer to me, but then I feel the heavy weight of responsibility to make the right decision. This has nothing to do with macho domination. It’s accountability. Occasionally, my wife will feel very strongly about something and I can see that the Holy Spirit is guiding us through her conviction. That’s when I pay real close attention.

 

[Sierrah]

I look at like this: Someone has to be in charge and have the final word. The husband is the CEO of the marriage and the wife is his VP or whatever falls under that. Decisions should be discussed with both making their feelings and opinions known but again someone has to have the final word. I have no problem with this. I think is a good idea and women sometime take more on themselves then they should letting the guys slack in their responsibility. Being a long time single person who has never been married this would be a hard adjustment for me to make but I wouldn’t enter into marriage with someone whom I didn’t trust to make wise choices and be considerate of my opinion.

 

[Catholic90]

I’ve always loved the line from “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”.

The man is the head of the household, but the woman is the neck that turns the head!

It is a team effort. No one is “ruling” the other.

 

[kage_ar]

Find it odd, but a Catholic thing, that discussion can go on about some very clear passages of Scripture, yet, seems that those HAVING the discussion have not even read what Christ said. So, I’ll be the convert who will advise that the young people involved in the discussion actually READ the passages (And please, get out your Bibles and read the entire chapters, as I’ve only posted small sections and the context is so important.)

After you read these, please also read the Catechism on Marriage, link posted below.

There are two.

Ephesians 5:

21 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body. 24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her 26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, 27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. 33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

Colossians 3:

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. 18 Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives, and avoid any bitterness toward them. 20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this is pleasing to the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, so they may not become discouraged.

The CCC (when you click here, you will see the opion to entert the Catechism at this point, this is the beginning of the section on marriage.)

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#1601

 

[jwashu]

The man may be the head of the household but he is called to love his wife as Christ loves the Church. Take a look at the Crucifix, a man is called to nothing less than that for his wife and family.

That means knowing when to lead and realizing that we, as husbands, don’t know everything. A marriage is sacramental, a marriage is a vocation (something you have to work at), a marriage should be forever.

I believe if people better understood that, we might have less divorce. No not necessarily the general population but we as Catholic’s should be doing better to prepare the next generation. That means being better spouses and better parents to teach our children what they should expect and want in their marriage someday.

I believe we have also lost, especially in recent decades, what it means to take an Oath before God as well. At the Alter, we make an Oath to each other, before God. Perhaps we need to also better understand what that means as well.

Leadership, being the head of the household should almost never, if ever, require the use of the word obey. I see that more as a Protestant misunderstanding of the Bible than a Catholic teaching.

Joe

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Being the spiritual head of the house doesn’t mean having veto power. It means being accountable to God for the spiritual health of the family. It means being the one to suggest saying the family rosary. It means waking up the teenagers and making sure they get ready for Mass early. It means having a prayer time both to stay in touch with God’s will and to be an example to the kids, particularly boys, so they see their faith as manly. It means getting up on Saturday occasionally and taking the kids to daily Mass. It means making breakfast on Sunday so Mom can have an uninterrupted prayer time.

**
Wow, this is where I really wish that more experienced, faithful couples could be available to mentor us that are less experienced (although 9 years is hardly newlywed). It used to be that dads and grandpas and uncles etc were the ones to set a husband straight when he had the mistaken notion that being the “head of the household” meant having veto power… but with so few faithful Catholics in today’s society it is hard to find sound advice (for both husbands and** wives).

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I was having a heated debate with my girlfriend about marriage.

Not US being married…but marriage itself.

As Catholics, (and the majority of our Church’s tradition has been greatly…wives obey your husbands!..though im not sure if that was Church theology or just the way those times were)

Do we follow the Biblical requests that husbands ‘rule’ the household?

Can that fit in a modern lifestyle?

Of course! Just ask mine!

 

[dakotagirl]

Bleagh

 

[JadensMom]

I don’t feel any need to be “obedient” to my husband and have him “rule over me”, and he’d find the idea of being married to some kind of submissive Stepford wife to be downright creepy.

Why does one person need to be the “head of the household” anyway? As the saying goes, “two heads are better than one!”

So we have a nice compromise worked out. He obeys me when I’m right, and I obey him when he’s right. The “final word” on anything is what we both agree is the most sensible solution to any situation, which becomes OUR final word.

My old-school “macho” father has occasionally been known to tell my husband that he “gives me my way” too much, but my husband’s got the perfect reply for that:

“You raised an intelligent daughter – why shouldn’t I listen to her advice?”

There’s no reason to just overrule a wife’s sound opinions just to “keep her in her place.” A woman’s place is at her husband’s side as his equal, holding his hand and watching his back against all comers, just as his role is to love and care for her. A married couple is a team, not a pair of opponents going head to head in a duel for heaven’s sake!

If your marital arguments come down to who has to “win” and have the “final word,” you’re not doing it right.

 

[BamaRider]

http://bestsmileys.com/whipping/4.gif-

All wives should be submissive to their husbands, after all the bible says so. I made a list. http://bestsmileys.com/paranoid/7.gif

Do NOTS:

talk during the last 2 mintues of the game

mess with things in my/our study

put stuff where we can’t find it

try to make us go see those dumb movies, where nothing happens, just a bunch of talking.

take my ride out on Saturday and bring it back empty

take the batteries outta the clicker

vacumn when we’re tryin to nap.

DO:

cook supper all the time

go shopping on Monday nights, so I can bring the guys over for the game.

make those rice crispy things

tell me how good I am and how glad you are to be married to ME

stay quiet when I get us lost in some strange city

make sure I get plenty of internet time

Thats all for now.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Submission in a marriage is mutual and happens in different ways.

Women, respect your man and admire his masculinity. Let him serve you without going, “but I’m equal to you.” Yes, you are, in dignity, but let him love you as he was meant to.

Men, love your wives. Sacrifice for her and for your children. Treat her like a lady and be good to her. Don’t do anything that will damage your relationship with either God or your wife (includes looking at porn, etc).

Work/stay at home is a personal choice and is dependent on what is best for the family. There are devout Catholic families where the father stays at home and the mother works. And there are devout Catholic families where both parents work out of necessity. Men work/women stay at home is a societal thing and not a Biblical/Church thing.