Obedience to Husbands?

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Hey brother…
I dont know how to advice you on this because its quite a complicated matter, especially in a fallen world where men have been known to abuse these Biblical passages to dominate and use power in unchristlike ways instead of loving and where more than a few wifes have been needlesly rebellious and disrespectful… we are all sinners.
Look at Israel… its a small people… really small among all the nations. The Bible says that its not because of its size that God chose them to be his chosen ones. Not because of their own merit. So too with women and men. Women were given huge gifts out of Gods choosing and so were men… not because they naturally deserved it, but because it was the will of God. Humility will bring us all very far.

Kimberly Hahn said something about how to solve these issues before they arise. She said that she will worry about HER part /the things directed at her in Pauls words, and in turn expect her husband will worry about HIS part … the words directed at him. A married woman will read the words directed at her and ponder them but she is not to go and teach her husband and lecture him about his lack of doing his part right or about all the things she expects his part to involve. Neither should a husband (or fiancee) tell a woman about her role and what she ought to do… but he should worry about doing his part.

Many have said on these boards: Love your wife and she will respect you. Respect your husband and he will love you.
I believe in that. Each person has his/her hands full with what is demanded of him/her self and need not point out what the other should be doing.

That was the point that Kimberly Hahn got through to me and I think it sounds reasonable and beneficial to both men and women.

🙂
 
I have a question…

What would be a good example (situation) where a couple is disagreeing and/or deciding about something where the wife would defer to the husband to make the final decision?

Would this be different than asking him…his opinion on something?
 
“WIVES, BE SUBJECT TO YOUR HUSBANDS”:
THE AUTHORITY OF THE HUSBAND ACCORDING TO THE MAGISTERIUM

INTRODUCTION

The words, “Wives, be subject to your husbands,” jar many modern ears. Even though this exhortation comes from an inspired text in Sacred Scripture (Ephesians 5:22), many people–including practicing Catholics–are troubled by what appears to be a relic of Marriage customs “rightly” abandoned by contemporary culture. Those who resist any notion of hierarchy or patriarchy in the social order vigorously reject St. Paul’s concept of Marriage as an attack on the dignity of women. Even those Christians not hostile to Paul’s teaching may believe that given the state of modern society, there is little to be gained by investigating–let alone applying–Paul’s prescriptions concerning the relationship of the spouses. However, one Catholic scholar, Stephen Clark, suggests that the controversy or unease over the family order described in Ephesians 5:21-33 is a relatively recent phenomenon. Regarding the question of a “head of the family” he writes, “Few areas in early Christian teaching are as uniform and fewer still were held with the same consistency as long as this one, since the first Christian voices advocating a different approach were raised only in about the nineteenth century.” Clark continues, “There are few instances where it is clearer that a change in the approach of Christians is an abandonment of Christian tradition, and not only of tradition, but of every source of authoritative teaching that can lay claim on a Christian.”

more…
 
I don’t believe in the ‘rightness’ of that abandonment. Woe to us, that this should even be a question.

Feminism has done as much damage to our society as its big brother, Marxism.
 
Am I to understand then, the wife being submissive to her husband is for spiritual matters only? i.e. the “spiritual head of the household”

or in other areas of the marriage? i.e. where he insists on the duct taped barcolounger remain in the living room, vs. the den or study? or whether or not one of the spare rooms are painted 'tea rose"?

or if she can go to the movies with her friend “Linda” that hubby doesn’t particularly care for?
 
I saw this post yesterday and it reminded me of a homily I had read on www.cuf.org. I couldn’t find the article yesterday, but found it this morning. I thought this was a very well done explanation of the scriptural passages that seem to be giving people in this thread a hard time. Hope this helps.

cuf.org/Homilies/Archive/123007b.asp
 
I don’t believe the Bible speaks of ‘obey’ as much as submission to our husbands…and for me, my thought has always been that that basically means to surrender or sacrifice for my husband, in love. In holiness. By not always fighting to get our own way, a greater liberation takes place for women. This isn’t to mean that a woman who is married to an abuser, or incredibly immoral man, should allow him to make decisions for the family. The Bible is clear, that the man also has a responsibility to his wife and family–he must love her/them, the way Christ loved the Church. It’s a two part ‘invention,’ the sentence doesn’t end at …wives submit to your husbands (no matter what) Noooo…the second part is that husbands need to love their wives the way Christ so loved the Church. If both are happening, we’d see less divorces.

I think that what works in my marriage, is that my husband is my rock…my anchor. I tell him so, and he thanks me always for not battling him on things, (like I used to)😊 My husband is a great man, very wise, and cuts right to the chase. He and I had our differences a lot when I would always feel the need to counter his opinions, even though they were good ones! This is what the Bible is talking about–submitting with love. Now, I make a lot of the decisions in our house as well…but I always ask my husband his thoughts, so we make these decisions collectively. He does the same for me…‘what do you think about this, honey…or I was thinking we should do this, do you think that’s wise?’ THAT is what it’s about.

It’s not about a man barking orders and a wife running to grant his every whim. If anyone thinks that is what is meant by that Bible verse…hold off on getting married, and read s’more. You are not ready!😉
 
All links seem to say that it is more surrender, and peace, and only in goodness, not evil.
 
We’re talking about husbands here, right? A spouse who you love and have vowed to honour and cherish until death. I don’t think it has to be a question then, I believe there’ll be a willing obedience. This is your other half- there will be a trust there.

Yes, it does say Husbands love your wives. And so your husband shouldn’t ask anything of you that you wouldn’t already be willing to do. One shouldn’t worry about being obedient if you trust the person asking you to do something. They should know you well enough to ask correctly.

And it goes both ways. Women love their husbands and ask them to do things all the time. It’s not odd.

It’s how we all trust God. We obey Him and what He says because He knows best. We’re not being mistreated this way, or taken as slaves. We’re being saved. And so husbands should know enough to help their wives in such a way- as Christ loves the Church and His people.

We are made in the image and likeness of God. The mortal family is the image of the Trinity. Someone has to step up and play proxy to God in the home, and God gave that huge responsibility to men.

So I’d think the guys have to worry about it more than the women. God gave them a lot of stuff to do and think about.
 
Great topic. I love what everyone else said, so I don’t have anything else to add, except that my marriage works a lot better when I obey and submit to my husband. Power struggles are exhausting.
 
Catholic90 said:
I’ve always loved the line from “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”.

The man is the head of the household, but the woman is the neck that turns the head!

It is a team effort. No one is “ruling” the other.
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I’d say that’s pretty accurate, and how most marriages are.
 
savienu said:
Great topic. I love what everyone else said, so I don’t have anything else to add, except that my marriage works a lot better when I obey and submit to my husband. Power struggles are exhausting.
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What is an example of a “power struggle”. I have heard this term alot with regard to this topic.

If anyone else has an example, please enlighten.

I understand the “spiritual head” of the household. What about the rest…
 
Julianna said:
What is an example of a “power struggle”. I have heard this term alot with regard to this topic.

If anyone else has an example, please enlighten.

I understand the “spiritual head” of the household. What about the rest…
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**An example of a power struggle could be something like this. A free weekend or holiday is coming up. Hubby wants to go camping. Wife wants to go visit a relative they hardly get to see. Both want are very passionate about their “want”. So if both are unwilling to bend then how on earth do they sort it out? Instant power struggle. Whoever doesn’t “get their way” is going to be resentful and cranky.

There are some people who think that in this type of situation that the man/husband/father should have the final word. But I don’t see how that could make a marriage stronger. It basically means that the husband, in the case of any disagreement, will get his way unless he decides to “let” her have hers. Sounds more like a father-daughter relationship to me.

This is why I never understood the term “agree to disagree”. It doesn’t solve anything…unless they both go their separate ways and do their own thing.🤷**
 
GhostMan said:
If you worry about your end: Loving your wife as Christ loved the Church, her end will be easy.
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The original meaning of the word “obey” is “to listen.” It is a man and woman who marry. Marriage is a Sacrament between adults and a man who loves his wife as Christ loved the Church honors her and will not ask her to do anything against personal conscience. A wife is responsible before God for her actions; to act against conscience is to sin against God.
In marriage, a man and woman are called to be mutually submissive to one another, to show deference, obeisance. Obedience entails more than blindly following orders. It means we are called to listen to one another.
If a man truly loves his wife as Christ loved the Church, if he is willing to lay down his very life, she will be responsive to that love.
I have often used a business metaphor in describing the relationship between a man and woman in marriage. The man is the head of the family. Just as a business owner is responsible for the business, the man is responsible for the welfare of his family. A businessman also has a manager whom he trusts to take care of day to day matters. The woman manages the home. She is her husband’s helpmate. He trusts her. The wife, like a good manager, will bring to her husband’s attention, issues or concerns that require his decision. At all points, communication is key as each listens to the other.
 
Feanaro_s_Wife said:
**An example of a power struggle could be something like this. A free weekend or holiday is coming up. Hubby wants to go camping. Wife wants to go visit a relative they hardly get to see. Both want are very passionate about their “want”. So if both are unwilling to bend then how on earth do they sort it out? Instant power struggle. Whoever doesn’t “get their way” is going to be resentful and cranky.

There are some people who think that in this type of situation that the man/husband/father should have the final word. But I don’t see how that could make a marriage stronger. It basically means that the husband, in the case of any disagreement, will get his way unless he decides to “let” her have hers. Sounds more like a father-daughter relationship to me.

This is why I never understood the term “agree to disagree”. It doesn’t solve anything…unless they both go their separate ways and do their own thing.🤷**
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So how should that situation be solved? I’ve found that it is the woman who more often “gets her way” because she is more willing to argue with her husband about it. The husband often gives in to stop the fight- and that’s no way to solve it either. That’s why obedience on the part of the woman is so important, I think, because it levels the playing field, so to speak. My husband is more willing to give me what I want if I’m not expecting it at every turn. Perhaps seeing a woman willing to give in to him will make him want to give her what SHE wants? I dunno, just my thoughts…
 
iCatholic said:
I was having a heated debate with my girlfriend about marriage.

Not US being married…but marriage itself. 😉

As Catholics, (and the majority of our Church’s tradition has been greatly…wives obey your husbands!..though im not sure if that was Church theology or just the way those times were)

Do we follow the Biblical requests that husbands ‘rule’ the household?

Can that fit in a modern lifestyle?
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I can only speak from my experience being in a devout and loving Household and also being married to my soulmate.

If you are concerned with “ruling” you may have a poor understanding of marriage. Partnership is far and away a better word.
One can look at the Bible and find these commands and they are fine if both parties agree, but they are unworkable if the parties differ.
In the olden days much of what was understood about duties and rules was pretty rigid. Today, at least in most “Christian” countries" and especially in the US, this is not the case.
Any marriage must have certain understandings before hand.
Most critical of these is mutual love and respect, a desire to give fully to each other and recieve from each other.
In addtion is the desire to accept Children as a blessing and responsibility from God.
A willingness to work TOGETHER in mutual understanding for the common goal of raising good catholic children, doing the will of God in your lives, and reaching old age in the comfort, and peace of constant Loving companionship.

My 2c

Peace
James
 
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