Obedience vs conscience - when?

[zaida]

IWhat are issues requiring “obedience” and what are issues where one must follow ones “conscience”? How does the Church make known its position on obedience vs conscience?

Thanks!

 

[robert7685]

It’s a false dichotomy. A properly formed conscience leads to obedience. However, the question must be asked, obedience to what? Obedience to what God has revealed to us, as well as what the Catholic Church has consistently taught. Ideally, there should be no conflict between the two. Hope this helps.

 

[Edmundus1581]

There is no simple, single, answer to this question, and different Catholics have different opinions. Some will emphasise authority, and others will emphasise conscience. It is a reasonable generalisation to say that individual conscience is given a higher value in the Church these days, especially since Vatican II, than it has been in the past.

I recommend that you read the section in the Catechism of the Catholic Church on conscience.

Some extracts from the Catechism:

1778 Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

I will give a few of instances where conscience comes into play.

1. In confession we usually receive advice from our confessor on what we have confessed. Such advice (in general) is not binding under obedience, and is to be considered in conscience.
2. Voting. We are to apply the Church’s guidelines to form a conscience decision on who to vote for. (However, we are not entitled to vote deliberately for a cause which is directly contrary to Catholic morals).
3. Our conscience **cannot **tell us that there is no obligation to attend Mass on Sunday, for the Church teaches that there is such an obligation, however our conscience decides when a particular reason is sufficient cause to miss Mass. If we have made the decision in good conscience then there is no sin, even if we subsequently decide that the reason was insufficient.

Our conscience cannot, however, overrule a firm teaching of the Church. The ban on artificial contraception is a prominent example, with some giving themselves licence to use it under the guise of a “conscience decision”. Such a “conscience decision” is invalid.

A very good example of a conscience decision was of a story I heard of a layman in Nazi Germany who decided, in his conscience, that he could not fight with the German Army when he was conscripted in WWII. His priest advised him that it was not immoral to fight with the national army, even if he disagreed with the cause. No doubt, many Catholics (and Protestants) fought for the Nazi’s under that understanding. This man could have accepted the priest’s advice under authority, but his conscience wouldn’t allow him. He was executed by the Nazis, and is now, being considered for canonisation as a martyr by the Catholic church. Sorry, I can’t remember the man’s name. His case though is far from unique - the laity are often called by conscience to adopt a cause more difficult than that strictly required by the Church.

Another case I know of relates to the excommunication of our Australian Saint, St Mary MacKillop. She was briefly, and wrongly, excommunicated by her Bishop (in the 1800’s). Under the rules of excommunication at the time no Catholic was permitted to associate with her or shelter her. Nevertheless, some Jesuits sheltered her, thus disobeying the Church, and obeying conscience. Her excommunication was subsequently rescinded.

 

[Trishie]

You may find it helpful to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church from Paragraph 1776 to 1789

christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/moral.html

 

[robert7685]

Geez, I feel lazy for being the only one who hasn’t given quotes or links. Then again, it was the best I could do while using an Android phone. (Product placement lol)

 

[markomalley]

IWhat are issues requiring “obedience” and what are issues where one must follow ones “conscience”? How does the Church make known its position on obedience vs conscience?

Thanks!

Some bits from the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 748 §1. All persons are bound to seek the truth in those things which regard God and his Church and by virtue of divine law are bound by the obligation and possess the right of embracing and observing the truth which they have come to know.

§2. No one is ever permitted to coerce persons to embrace the Catholic faith against their conscience.

Can. 749 §1. By virtue of his office, the Supreme Pontiff possesses infallibility in teaching when as the supreme pastor and teacher of all the Christian faithful, who strengthens his brothers and sisters in the faith, he proclaims by definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held.

§2. The college of bishops also possesses infallibility in teaching when the bishops gathered together in an ecumenical council exercise the magisterium as teachers and judges of faith and morals who declare for the universal Church that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held definitively; or when dispersed throughout the world but preserving the bond of communion among themselves and with the successor of Peter and teaching authentically together with the Roman Pontiff matters of faith or morals, they agree that a particular proposition is to be held definitively.

§3. No doctrine is understood as defined infallibly unless this is manifestly evident.

Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.

§2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firm-ly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Can. 753 Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care; the Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.

Can. 754 All the Christian faithful are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which the legitimate authority of the Church issues in order to propose doctrine and to proscribe erroneous opinions, particularly those which the Roman Pontiff or the college of bishops puts forth.
You are required to form your conscience to believe in your “heart of hearts” those teachings that are identified in Canon 750 §1. If your conscience is not formed to assent to those items, you are a heretic (although you are not liable under Can 1364 unless your heresy is in the external forum). You must also form your conscience around those teachings identified in Can 752 and 753; however, this is more a matter of obedience – as even if you have a hard time wrapping your arms around a specific doctrine, you are still required to comply in speech and actions with that teaching.

Those constitutions and decrees identified through Canon 754 require obedience and compliance, even if there is no teaching involved.(And in that case, “conscience” is not a direct issue…except for one’s conscience to reflect the need to be obedient)

One key catch is in Canon 753. You will note the phrase: the authentic magisterium of their bishops. The bishop has teaching authority within his diocese provided that his teaching agrees with that of the Holy Father. Provided he does that, he exercises his “authentic” magisterium. If he proposes something different, then he doesn’t. For example, let us hypothetically say that a bishop teaches that artificial contraception is perfectly OK or that homosexual relationships are morally equivalent to heterosexual relationships. That is in direct opposition to the teachings of the Church. The faithful are NOT bound to obey in that event.

Long answer, but hopefully it helps.

 

[Corki]

IWhat are issues requiring “obedience” and what are issues where one must follow ones “conscience”? How does the Church make known its position on obedience vs conscience?

Thanks!

Another excellent source is the book “On Conscience”. It is a compliation of talks given by Pope Benedict XVI when he was still Cardinal Ratzinger and was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It is a short book - less than 100 pages. It is more of a theological discussion than a practical one.

ignatius.com/Products/OC-H/on-conscience.aspx

One of the key points, often glossed over in discusson of Conscience is that IF one has rigorously formed ones conscience and still finds it at odds with the Church, one is bound to follow one’s conscience HOWEVER, that does not excuse you from culpability if following your conscience causes you to sin.

A practical example: assume you have studied and prayed and decided that your conscience cannot agree with the Church’s teaching on NFP. You must follow your conscience in that case and avoid the use of NFP. However, you cannot use that as an excuse to do something sinful (contracept) - only to avoid NFP.

Another point often glossed over is that, in the exceptional case where your consience seems to be in conflict with the Church’s teaching, you can’t pick a point in time and stop trying to fix the conflict. You must keep trying to understand why the Church teaches what she teaches and from where the discord arises.

Frankly, in this day and age, with virtually everyone being literate and thousands of years of Church teaching at your fingertips via the internet, it is virtually impossible to **properly **form your conscience and still have it be in conflict with Church teaching. In times past, when the information available was limited or filtered through a single person (such as the parish priest) it was more likely.

 

[manualman]

Conscience is what you use to resolve apparent conflicts of principles. But in no way can one claim “conscience” to justify doing something you feel like doing that goes against defined moral teachings of the church. That’s just a bad definition of rationalization.

I may not be able to defend it using moral theology, but I know that I may lie to the Nazis about the Jews hiding in my basement secret room. That sort of thing is where conscience becomes a more useful guide to life than a shelf full of moral theology textbooks that I can’t really understand.

 

[Bookcat]

An important line from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that often gets forgotten in discussions of “conscience”.

From CCC 2039:

“Personal conscience and reason should not be set in opposition to the moral law or the Magisterium of the Church.”

Here is a good article that detail about Catholics and Conscience:

cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=109

a MUST read… it will help explain the various aspects …

 

[PJM]

=zaida;8686930]IWhat are issues requiring “obedience” and what are issues where one must follow ones “conscience”? How does the Church make known its position on obedience vs conscience?

Thanks!

From the Catechism of the CC

**1778 **Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law:

**1783 **Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

**1784 **The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

**1782 **Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious
matters.”

1798 A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience

**1801 **Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt

**2039 **Ministries should be exercised in a spirit of fraternal service and dedication to the Church, in the name of the Lord. At the same time the conscience of each person should avoid confining itself to individualistic considerations in its moral judgments of the person’s own acts. As far as possible conscience should take account of the good of all, as expressed in the moral law, natural and revealed, and consequently in the law of the Church and in the authoritative teaching of the Magisterium on moral questions. Personal conscience and reason should not be set in opposition to the moral law or the Magisterium of the Church.

**1865 **Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.

**1791 **This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

There is more, but this I pray will guide you,

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Edmundus1581]

As your religious affiliation is Episcopalean, I would like to address one of the common reasons that non-Catholics question Catholics about “conscience”, without implying that this is necessarily the reason for your question.

People sometimes get the impression that Catholicism is about Church authority and blind obedience. My experience, having lived as both a Protestant and Catholic, is that personal conscience is actually more treasured in Catholicism than in Protestantism. Even though it is rarely mentioned, either in homilies or discussions, it just runs through all our thoughts and dealings, as a living, breathing spirit.

Our obedience to the Magisterium is not the END of forming a conscience, but is rather the BEGINNING, and also a lifelong process. *Whoever listens to you listens to me. *[Lk 10:16]

Homily on Conscience and Truth based on Matthew 6 is an excellent, short, exposition of the topic.

The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with light; but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be in darkness. And if the light in you is darkness, how great will the darkness be. (Matthew 6, 19-23)

When Jesus speaks of the eye, he is speaking of the conscience, by which we are able to hear the voice of God and to discern good from evil. …
…
We should always follow our certain conscience, but we must be aware that conscience can sometimes be wrong. That is why it is necessary to properly inform our consciences. A person would still morally responsible for his bad actions even if he acted with a certain conscience, if he failed to inform his conscience properly.

 

[zaida]

I am absolutely amazed and grateful for all of these responses…you all so knowledgeable and so giving with your time! Its really really appreciated.

Im going to take some time to read the articles and links sent to me. It looks like its complicated on the one hand (there seems to be a lot about both obedience and conscience), but on the other hand, I can really see that point one person made, that practicing and trying to perfect obedience may build our conscience - that they are really in allignment with each other. I also think the point is interesting that one poster made - that conscience has always played a role in the Catholic faith, and maybe protestants dont understand that.

I will probably be back with more questions after checking out all the links! Thanks again, for all the time folks have spent helping me.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thanks for the response, zaida, and for sharing your thoughts. Your original question is a very interesting topic, as you can see by the responses here.

Best wishes with your reading and questioning,

Edmundus