Obedience vs. Joy

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iamrefreshed

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Since coming back to the Church a few years ago I have been working very hard in my faith. I’ve recently come to the realization that I have no joy in my faith. In its place I feel only a need to be obedient. To do what God wants me to do. This relationship can’t be right. I must be doing something wrong.

There is supposed to be joy, right?

Any reading recommendations?
 
joy springs from growing closeness in relationship to God, which flows from obedience to his will and his commandments.
 
I would imagine that there’d be joy IN the obedience, if that makes sense. I was reading on this board when someone said they didn’t “feel” what they thought they should when receiving Eucharist and going to adoration. The responses made sense: to keep going, and don’t let “feelings” derail you.

Have a quiet assurance in your heart that you are spot-on in being obedient to Jesus. I bet anything that accepting that simple assurance of your obedience will lead to the joy you’re seeking. 👍

God Bless You!

Tiber Swim Team, class of '06
 
Don’t worry about the feelings. You’re pleasing God by being obedient.
 
Most of my spiritual joys that I have are when I know what I have done that please God. We are to glorify Him.
 
Since coming back to the Church a few years ago I have been working very hard in my faith. I’ve recently come to the realization that I have no joy in my faith. In its place I feel only a need to be obedient. To do what God wants me to do. This relationship can’t be right. I must be doing something wrong.

There is supposed to be joy, right?

Any reading recommendations?
I read this thread earlier. I liked twosweet’s comments about the joy in obedience. These thoughts came to me while out in my garden. Was Jesus joyful in the Garden of Gethsemane? I think along the walk of Christian faith, many eventually reach where we want want to cry out, “Take this cup from me!” That hardly sounds joyful. But we still need to say, as Jesus did, “But not my will, but thy will be done.”

Obedience sometimes demands more from us than we want to give. It asks us to give up or do things that may be contrary to our desires. Obedience can help “crucify” our selfishness. Sometimes those tiny crucifixions, more like splinters than nails, that can temporarily rob us of our joy. Maybe its more like postponed joy, but when we’re in the midst of our personal “Good Fridays”, we may forget Easter’s on its way.

Yes, I do believe there is suppose to be joy in our Christian walk. Joy goes deep. Maybe, like the perennials in my gardens, a Christian’s joy may seem dead during the winter of life, yet it rises from deep roots again in the spring. Sometimes God gives new believers an “easy faith” in their first few seasons. I think St. Paul referred spiritual milk for spiritual babies, but as we grow in faith, God introduces solid food that’s a little harder to chew. If one’s walk of faith has primarily been God doing the giving, then the self-giving back to God through obedience may not feel as good or joyful.

And my last point, relates back to your username “iamrefreshed”. Are you really refreshed? We are humans, body, soul and spirit, and the bodily needs for things like sleep and food can effect our emotions. While Jesus asked His friends to stay up late on Holy Thursday while He prayed in the garden, He also slept on a boat during a storm. He fasted for forty days in the desert, but He also feasted. He had the proper balance. If any of our bodily needs are out of balance, I think our human emotions may also get out of balance. Maybe the joy can return through something as simple as getting adequate rest.

Reading recommendations: A Christian’s Secret to a Happy Life by Hannah Withal Smith. Not a Catholic author; she fails to mention Sacramental graces, but I don’t recall that it contains anything contrary to the faith. I think this is a great little book. It’s about a hundred or so years old, but it’s a Christian classic. There’s an abridged version with more modern English.
 
I was reading on this board when someone said they didn’t “feel” what they thought they should when receiving Eucharist and going to adoration. The responses made sense: to keep going, and don’t let “feelings” derail you.
I was the person who posted the thread referenced here. I, too, have struggled with a lack of “feeling”- be it joy, peace, confidence, what have you. I can empathise with your struggle- sometimes it seems that I “should” get at least a LITTLE glimpse of boundless joy/peace/confidence, etc.

There was a post on some other thread (I can’t remember it, and I wish I could) that had a little graphic that totally hit home with me, maybe it will with you, too.

The picture was of a train- an engine, a middle car, and a caboose. Now, I can’t remember what the engine was titled (pregnancy brain), but the middle car was titled “Faith”, and the caboose was “Feeling”. The point of the picture was that just like a caboose can’t lead a train, and, in fact, isn’t even necessary, so it is with our faith and feeling. Feeling can’t ever drive our faith. It simply isn’t equiped to do so.

But that said, you shouldn’t allow your faith to become dead, mindless obedience. God wants cheerful, informed obedience. He did give us Free Will, after all- he wants us to choose to be obedient, even when we don’t get the rewards we feel we should be getting.

C
 
Thanks for the well thought out replies. I understand the thought of joy through obedience. I guess it’s just that the last year of my life has been EXTREMELY difficult. I was looking for more than perhaps I should from God, or more precisely, looking in the wrong places.

My last year has dreadful. I’ve discovered about my wifes infidelities caused by childhood trauma including incest and rape. My marriage nearly ended.

My faith in God was shaken but through it all I have obeyed his commandment of spousal fidelity and the marriage sacrament.

Maybe my “joy” that I’m looking for is the new and developing marriage I now have. That plus our troubles have brought my wife to the faith as well.

Thanks for giving me a new perspective to look at.
 
Thanks for the well thought out replies. I understand the thought of joy through obedience. I guess it’s just that the last year of my life has been EXTREMELY difficult. I was looking for more than perhaps I should from God, or more precisely, looking in the wrong places.

My last year has dreadful. I’ve discovered about my wifes infidelities caused by childhood trauma including incest and rape. My marriage nearly ended.

My faith in God was shaken but through it all I have obeyed his commandment of spousal fidelity and the marriage sacrament.

Maybe my “joy” that I’m looking for is the new and developing marriage I now have. That plus our troubles have brought my wife to the faith as well.

Thanks for giving me a new perspective to look at.
I am sorry that your wife and you have suffered so much.

You ought to be proud of yourself, your wife and your marriage that you have ridden the storm and come out the other side. Your marriage is very strong precisely because it is surviving.

You won’t feel great in your faith whilst these things were going on.

I often say ‘I am shaken, but not stirred!’ (sorry for the James Bond pun:D ) by that I mean I may temporarily have my world rocked but it won;t stir me up away from my faith. It’s ok to get shaken, sometimes it is necessary, but we carry on even when shaken.

I hope you find new depths to your faith that bring you great joy.

In my Living Prayer of life.
 
Since coming back to the Church a few years ago I have been working very hard in my faith. I’ve recently come to the realization that I have no joy in my faith. In its place I feel only a need to be obedient. To do what God wants me to do. This relationship can’t be right. I must be doing something wrong.

There is supposed to be joy, right?

Any reading recommendations?
Joy comes from God’s love for you and His love isn’t conditional and determined by your obedience.

What is your perception of God?

Is he a judge, waiting to throw you into hell for any discrepancy in your behavior towards his commandments?

Or is God a merciful and loving God, who loves you unconditionally, and is your eternal savior?

God’s mercy and love, is what brings me joy.
In fact, I haven’t thought about obedience in a long time.

Jim
 
I think Joy must be more than an emotions. After all, Charity (love) isn’t just an emotion. Hope isn’t just an emotion.

I haven’t quite figured it out yet.

I think it might be tied up with gratitude and praise.

I would love to see a theological definition.
 
I think Joy must be more than an emotions. After all, Charity (love) isn’t just an emotion. Hope isn’t just an emotion.

I haven’t quite figured it out yet.

I think it might be tied up with gratitude and praise.

I would love to see a theological definition.
how about joy with knowledge.
 
Since coming back to the Church a few years ago I have been working very hard in my faith. I’ve recently come to the realization that I have no joy in my faith. In its place I feel only a need to be obedient. To do what God wants me to do. This relationship can’t be right. I must be doing something wrong.

There is supposed to be joy, right?

Any reading recommendations?
Try finding a quiet spot where you can lie down and look at the stars. Get in touch with God through His creation and take a break from human craziness when you can.

Some reading suggestions:

The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence
New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton
The Way of the Pilgrim by Anonymous
 
Maybe a little different perspective.

I think we all go through our times when there is little joy, perhaps mini “dark nights” where things are dry and God seems nowhere to be found. I think that mostly these are times of testing the faith we have been building to “refine” and strengthen it.

I have personally experienced that on several occasions, sometimes lasting several months. I find when that happens that I must simply continue to be obedient and have faith that there is purpose behind the silence. And so I continue my prayers, even though they often seem like reading the phone book, and just say “Lord, you know I’m struggling right now, but I offer this to you to the best of my ability, knowing you will make up the difference.”

I have found that times come even in the best of marriages where we just kind of have to say the “I love you” even when we may not necessarily feel it, just because it helps to remind us. And as we continue to do so, our integrity, which does not want us to lie to ourselves, makes those statements into something of sefl-fulfilling prophecies.

I think our prayer life is much the same. We need to just keep praying, and over time the joy does in fact return with a strengthened faith. Knowing that God will always be faithful can give us great hope, even in the driest of times.

Hang in there refreshed. The joy in the bridegroom is there; it’s just a time of building the anticipation.

Peace,
 
**John 15:9-11

Jesus said to his disciples:
“As the Father loves me, so I also love you.
Remain in my love.
If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love,
just as I have kept my Father’s commandments
and remain in his love.

“I have told you this so that
my joy might be in you and
your joy might be complete.”**

I read today’s Gospel several times and dwelled on the meaning of them.

Jesus seems to say that keeping the commandments helps us remain in God’s love, and remaining in God’s love gives us the joy of the Lord.

Try to count your blessings everyday and be thankful. I find myself grateful when counting His blessings and my gratitude in turn brings the joy of the Lord. Blessings include all the good things happened, all the kindness experienced, all the ordinary things we take for granted, all the opportunities help us grow, as well as blessings in disguise of hardships.

God bless!
 
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