Obelisk on St. Peter's Square

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sinke
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sinke said:
Why is pagan obelisk in the middle of the square of St. Peter? Altough I understand it was adopted as place of The Relic of The Holy Cross, I find it difficult to understand why this thing wasn’t destroyed- as Bible seems to command us in Exodus 23:24 , Exodus 34:13, Deu. 7:5 , Deu. 12:3 ,Deu 16:22 etc.
Click to expand...
The obelisk was brought from Heliopolis in Egypt to Rome by the Emperor Carigula around 37 A.D. It is the only obelisk in Rome that has not toppled since Roman times. It was brought to Rome for the Roman Circus. During the Middle Ages, the gilt ball on top of the obelisk was believed to contain the ashes of Julius Caesar.The ball was taken down around 1440 A.D.

The obelisk was moved in the planning of Saint Peter’s Square in the Vatican by Pope Sixtus V in 1586, and was incorporated as the gnomon of a giantic sundial in the middle of the plaza.

The symbolic meaning is obvious. Christ, through the Church, is yesterday, today and forever and transcends time itself. The plaza and St. Peter’s itself are the epitome of Renaissance architecture.
 
otjm said:
There is also a tad bit of danger in tqaking a comment, or even several comments from Scripture and presuming that they of necessity have the same weight of moral authority today that they had 2500, 3000 or more years ago. It would do well to remember that we as followers of Christ are not bound to every law of Moses.
Click to expand...
I guess this is where I’ll resurrect this topic as it’s as good a place as any to begin. I have thoughts on many of the posts following this one and I will go down the line and add my two cents worth and see what you folks think!

First, I should say that my preoccupation with obelisks goes to the fact that the Freemasons erected an obelisk as a grave marker at the site of the massacre of 96 Christian Indian Martyrs in Gnadenhutten, Ohio. These martyrs were my tribe and my family members/ancestors and it has always bothered me that there isn’t a cross to memorialize them instead of a pagan obelisk.

Thinking about that obelisk has led me to think much more about obelisks in general and now after studying them for a number of years, I have a tendency to agree with the original poster of this question, and the more I investigate, the more I am bothered by that obelisk in St. Peters Square.

A quick comment about this post is that the moral authority of the 10 Commandments still stands today, they have not been eliminated because we are followers of Christ. His best example is Deu 16:22 which states, for those who don’t know;

Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

and the Lord thy God hateth that image, probably above all others!!

The obelisk is the ‘image of jealousy’ of the book of Ezekiel, that caused the Jews to be sent into captivity and the Temple destroyed. It was not ‘one of many’, it was the worst!

As far as being followers of Christ and not bound to every law of Moses, the book of Revelations states when referring to the 144,000 who stood before the throne of God;

**Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. **
 
juliamajor said:
what are we the Taliban:mad: - so what if its pagan-it isn’t a god its a monument.I love the art of the ancients and wouldn’t like to see anything of beauty destroyed-thank God a lot of the Popes didn’t feel that way you do .Some of the world’s greatest art comes from the pagan past.
Click to expand...
No, I humbly submit, we are not Taliban, and the obelisk is not art!

It is a symbol created for a specific occult purpose. The obelisk is critically important to the occultist because they believe that the spirit of the ancient Egyptian sun god, Ra, resides in the obelisk. Thus, the obelisk represents the very presence of the sun god, whom the Bible calls Satan!!

On a side note, the Vaticano Obelisk is oriented to the rising and setting sun on the solstices.

Just sayin…:flowers:
 
FWIW there are more ancient Egyptian obelisks in the city of Rome than in all of Egypt.
 
steve53 said:
FWIW there are more ancient Egyptian obelisks in the city of Rome than in all of Egypt.
Click to expand...
Partly true. There are eight ancient Egyptian and five ancient Roman obelisks in the city, together with a number of more modern obelisks. There was even an ancient Ethiopian (Axumite) one - taken by the Italian Army in 1937 - until 2005, which has since been returned to Ethiopia.
 
Sinke said:
Why is pagan obelisk in the middle of the square of St. Peter? Altough I understand it was adopted as place of The Relic of The Holy Cross, I find it difficult to understand why this thing wasn’t destroyed- as Bible seems to command us in Exodus 23:24 , Exodus 34:13, Deu. 7:5 , Deu. 12:3 ,Deu 16:22 etc.
Click to expand...
What is wrong with a pagan obelisk being converted to use outside St. Peter’s?

After all, there are a bunch of former pagans worshipping inside. 😛
 
Randy_Carson said:
What is wrong with a pagan obelisk being converted to use outside St. Peter’s?

After all, there are a bunch of former pagans worshipping inside. 😛
Click to expand...
Hey Randy, not sure if I get the joke or not, but, let’s say you’re not serious so I’ll keep it short.

Should Pope Benedict have the original ‘Golden Calf’ made by the Hebrews at the foot of Mount Sinai as an ornament in his bedroom just because he sprinkles holy water on it?

Do you think God would approve? :eek:
 
Stonefish said:
Hey Randy, not sure if I get the joke or not, but, let’s say you’re not serious so I’ll keep it short.

Should Pope Benedict have the original ‘Golden Calf’ made by the Hebrews at the foot of Mount Sinai as an ornament in his bedroom just because he sprinkles holy water on it?

Do you think God would approve? :eek:
Click to expand...
As long as he’s not worshipping it, I think it would be an amazing artifact.

No holy water would be necessary…it’s just a large object made of gold…it has no power of its own.
 
Michael_Wood said:
Actually, the reason the early Church adopted many dates from the Pagan holidays was …
Click to expand...
That’s the most common reason given for why Christmas is celebrated on 12/25. But from this link, It is commonly believed that the date of Christmas, December 25, was chosen to supplant a pagan celebration, Sol Invictus (the Unconquered Sun). But some scholars support an alternative explanation, one rooted in Judeo-Christian tradition. Here’s a short paraphrase of an article on the subject; a fuller excerpt follows below.
The earliest celebrations of Jesus’ birth that we know about (c. 250-300) come in a period when Christians were not borrowing heavily from pagan traditions of such an obvious character. This would change later, some years after Constantine converted to Christianity (312 C.E.).

Surprisingly, the key to dating Jesus’ birth may lie in the dating of Jesus’ death at Passover. Jesus was believed to have been conceived on the very date that he was later crucified, March 25. The birth was calculated by adding nine months: hence, December 25. Note that this is the explanation given by St. Augustine.

In the East, too, the dates of Jesus’ conception and death were linked. But the Eastern Church used a different (Greek) calendar, and thus came up with a different date. The crucifixion, and hence the conception, were reckoned to have taken place on April 6. Adding nine months brings us to January 6, the Eastern date for Christmas.

Thus, we have Christians in two parts of the world calculating Jesus’ birth on the basis that his death and conception took place on the same day.
If the above explanation is correct, the date chosen for Christmas had nothing to do with the winter solstice.
​
 
christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/washington-monument-obelisk-sun-nimrod-satan-worship/#respond

For the enlightened, the obelisk is a pagan symbol of the worship of the Babylonian god Nimrod, worship of the Sun, and ultimately of Satan worship.

Most every false god dates back to the Babylon Empire,
where the worship of Nimrod the Sun god, his wife Semiramus the moon goddess, and their immaculately conceived son Tammuz, were created by Satan.

The legend of Nimrod is that he was killed and cut into 13 parts. His wife Semiramus found 12 of the parts, but could not find the last one, his male member.

To honor Osiris the Egyptians created obelisks that represent his missing member.

One of those obelisks is now in the middle of the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square.

Hopefully you see the humor in having an obelisk erected in St. Peter’s Square. 😛

Seriously, it should tell you something about the Roman Catholic Church and their worship of pagan gods.
 
catholichere2 said:
christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/washington-monument-obelisk-sun-nimrod-satan-worship/#respond

For the enlightened, the obelisk is a pagan symbol of the worship of the Babylonian god Nimrod, worship of the Sun, and ultimately of Satan worship.

Most every false god dates back to the Babylon Empire,
where the worship of Nimrod the Sun god, his wife Semiramus the moon goddess, and their immaculately conceived son Tammuz, were created by Satan.

The legend of Nimrod is that he was killed and cut into 13 parts. His wife Semiramus found 12 of the parts, but could not find the last one, his male member.

To honor Osiris the Egyptians created obelisks that represent his missing member.

One of those obelisks is now in the middle of the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square.

Hopefully you see the humor in having an obelisk erected in St. Peter’s Square. 😛

Seriously, it should tell you something about the Roman Catholic Church and their worship of pagan gods.
Click to expand...
Praised be Jesus Christ that the obelisk is now a footstool to the Church He founded and against which the gates of Hell will not prevail. Matthew 16:18.

This has nothing to do with pagan worship and everything to do with the power of God over idols and evil in general. It’s worth noting that the obelisk has a cross on the top. The cross is what we look to.
 
Greetings,

It is important to note that the Pagans would place the name of their god on the top of their obelisks. So, the fact that the Church has replaced the name of any pagan god with the the cross definitely shows how Christ is here to stay. His saving truth triumphs the false ideologies of Paganism.

When I had the awesome privilege of making a pilgrimage to Rome and looked upon the obelisk it reminded me of all the early Christians including St. Peter who were martyred in front of it when it stood in Nero’s Circus.



**
Diagram of old location of Obelisk**

Artist Depiction-Circus of Nero Ruins

defendingthebride.com/temp/St%20Peters%20GoogleEsm2.jpg

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Vatican_StPeter_Square.jpg/790px-Vatican_StPeter_Square.jpg

web.archive.org/web/20131225085735/http://saintpetersbasilica.org/Exterior/Obelisk/Obelisk.htm

As a pagan monument in the greatest Christian square, it is a symbol of humanity reaching out to Christ. Originally inscribed to “Divine Augustus” and “Divine Tiberius” and now dedicated to the Holy Cross - “Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperat. Christus ab omni malo plebem suam defendat.” It is topped by a bronze cross containing a fragment of the true Cross.
From Wikipedia on Obelisk

The circus was the site of the first organized, state-sponsored martyrdoms of Christians in 65. Tradition holds that two years later, Saint Peter and many other Christians shared their fate. The circumstances were described in detail by Tacitus in a well-known passage of the Annals, (xv.44).

The site for crucifixions in the Circus would have been along the spina (“spine”), as suggested by early Acts of Peter describing the spot of his martyrdom as inter duas metas (“between the two metae or turning-posts”, which would have been equidistant between the two ends of the circus) …

The obelisk was originally erected at Heliopolis, Egypt, by an unknown pharaoh of the Fifth dynasty of Egypt (c. 2494 BC – 2345 BC). During its history of c. 4400 years (at the start of the 2010s), the obelisk has been successfully moved three times.
St. Peter’s Square obelisk

The Emperor Augustus (c. 63 BC – 14 AD) had the obelisk moved to the Julian Forum of Alexandria, where it stood until 37 AD, when Caligula ordered the forum demolished and the obelisk transferred to Rome. He had it placed on the spina which ran along the centre of the Circus of Nero, where it would preside over Nero’s countless brutal games and Christian executions.

It was moved to its current site in 1586 by the engineer-architect Domenico Fontana under the direction of Pope Sixtus V;

.
 
JohnR77 said:
“Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperat. Christus ab omni malo plebem suam defendat.”

… Annals, (xv.44).

.
Click to expand...
Code: 
  Originally the obelisk was inscribed to "Divine Augustus" and "Divine Tiberius" but is now dedicated to the Holy Cross with the inscription
“Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperat. Christus ab omni malo plebem suam defendat.”
(Christ is the victor, Christ is King, Christ is the ruler, May Christ defend His people from all evil).
On The east and west sides are inscribed exorcist formulas.

The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44. The Annals is one of the earliest secular historical records to mention Christ, which Tacitus does in connection with Nero’s persecution of the Christians.

sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/a15040.htm
Code: 
Tacitus: Annals Book 15 [44]
“ … Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus … Mockery of every sort was added to their [Christians’] deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man’s cruelty, that they were being destroyed.”

.
 
catholichere2 said:
christianitybeliefs.org/end-times-deceptions/washington-monument-obelisk-sun-nimrod-satan-worship/#respond

For the enlightened, the obelisk is a pagan symbol of the worship of the Babylonian god Nimrod, worship of the Sun, and ultimately of Satan worship.****Nimrod is not a God . He is from the book of Genesis-a mighty hunter.Obelisks are Egyptian-not Babylonian

Most every false god dates back to the B****abylon Empire,That is just a crock. There were false gods before and after the Babylonian empire fell
where the worship of Nimrod the Sun god No such deity, his wife SemiramusSemiramis is an historical figure, not a goddess
the moon goddess** not remotely historically accurate**, and their immaculately conceived son Tammuz were created by Satan. ** So the Virgin Birth is a Satanic idea**

The legend of Nimrod is that he was killed and cut into 13 parts.** This is not a legend of Babylonia that is the Legend of the death of the god Osiris by his brother Set, an Egyptian tale His wife SemiramusActually that was Isis** found 12 of the parts, **42 pieces-penis had to be magically reconstructed because the original was swallowed by a fish:eek:**but could not find the last one, his male member.Again the Legend of Osiris

To honor Osiris the Egyptians created obelisks that represent his missing member.I’m confused wasn’t Nimrod the chopped one mentioned? the obelisk has nothhing to do with Osiris(god of the underworld), but Ra the sun god.

One of those obelisks is now in the middle of the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square.
** Been there-loved it**

Hopefully you see the humor in having an obelisk erected in St. Peter’s Square**Actually since everything else you have stated is utter rubbish, and the oblelisks are beautiful, why be snarky/ I don’t believe any worship went along with obelisks ,it was a symbol of the sun god Ra. It reaches from the heavens to the earth, just the rays of the sun do. Obelisks came in pairs so all single obelisks had a mate. Just because something is upright doesn’t make it automatically phallic. Like Freud said- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. **

Seriously, it should tell you something about the Roman Catholic Church and their worship of pagan godsWhat worship of pagan gods? everything you put up here is so ludicrous and laughable and untrue… Just because someone puts something in a book doesn’t make it true. A bigot’s view is always tainted. Just picking up a history book would have told you the truth. not , this Nativistic propaganda.
Click to expand...
Oh, Lord. You are quoting and a book by Hislop about the so called roots of catholicism. Hislop was an anti catholic nut job.His book. is a complete fiction and utter rubbish. No historian of any worth has ever agreed with the nonsense therein:mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top