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GEddie
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Thomas Aquinas was known to have been heavy.
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Crescentinus
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So the depictions of the St. Thomas Aquinas as fat are accurate!?
Another fat and famous Catholic is G.K. Chesterton. And he smoked a lot when he was alive.
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Clare2012
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I find it really sad that people have been bashing over-weight people. Where is the compassion? There are so many contributory factors to being over-weight - economic situation, education, mental health (comfort eating patterns due to trauma, depression), exposure to media etc. We live in a culture (in the west) whereby pizza adverts flash up during the latest TV talent contest, where Coca-Cola sponsors the Olympics! Processed and nutritionally defunct food is made out to be cool and ‘normal’! People are made to feel these products are fine to consume regularly - people don’t have the awareness that that one pizza is probably a whole day’s calories or say, that a can of coke a day can add up to a few pounds a year in extra weight. There’s a lack of connection between the food and the body. That’s the nature of the capitalist machine - it often doesn’t really care for the people, just the money and it will spin out emotionally manipulative adverts to coerce you into eating their products - which often have substances within them which are addictive - leading you back for more.
I can see how some call fall into obesity because they are lost or feeling unloved and seek to eat sugary/high fat food out of comfort; something that faith could help alleviate but I think a more general approach is required for all - I guess nutritional education would go a long way in helping to heal the obese population, possibly more courses on permi-culture for those with gardens, a ban on sugary/processed food adverts during prime time television slots, more free mental health care solutions, more physical activity incorporated into the school and office day…these are just a few of my thoughts…
I can see how some call fall into obesity because they are lost or feeling unloved and seek to eat sugary/high fat food out of comfort; something that faith could help alleviate but I think a more general approach is required for all - I guess nutritional education would go a long way in helping to heal the obese population, possibly more courses on permi-culture for those with gardens, a ban on sugary/processed food adverts during prime time television slots, more free mental health care solutions, more physical activity incorporated into the school and office day…these are just a few of my thoughts…
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AthenaC
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I’m not ashamed. That’s what the program is there for. Because of programs like that I became a tax-paying citizen who: 1) is putting much more back in taxes than the amount of benefits I received; 2) GLADLY pay it forward to invest in other young families so they can have the same hand up that I did.
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Rita77
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dont want to start a fight. don’t point the finger at the farmer, he buys his food from the same grocery store at the same price as you. the cost of furits an vegies is hight because they aren’t always in season, can’t store for long time, have to be trasnported thousands of miles to your grocery store. corn and sugar etc can be stored for years and cheeper transport. we produce like 50% of the worlds food here in the midwest! thanks to cheep box meals (corn products and sugar) people all over the world wont starve today. you can’t drop apples from a plane but you can drop wheat and sugar and there is a lot more nutritional value in corn, sugar, wheat etc by its self the processing into a chip or whatever is when you loss most nutritional value
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bonvivantHermit
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Is obesity, especially morbid, a mortal sin? I would think in our society for many gluttony is a mortal sin. And do other eating disorders/excessive exercise/fasting fall under gluttony?
Gluttony is in general a venial sin in so far forth as it is an undue indulgence in a thing which is in itself neither good nor bad. Of course it is obvious that a different estimate would have to be given of one so wedded to the pleasures of the table as to absolutely and without qualification live merely to eat and drink, so minded as to be of the number of those, described by the Apostle St. Paul, “whose god is their belly” (Philippians 3:19). Such a one would be guilty of mortal sin. (New Advent)
Gluttony is in general a venial sin in so far forth as it is an undue indulgence in a thing which is in itself neither good nor bad. Of course it is obvious that a different estimate would have to be given of one so wedded to the pleasures of the table as to absolutely and without qualification live merely to eat and drink, so minded as to be of the number of those, described by the Apostle St. Paul, “whose god is their belly” (Philippians 3:19). Such a one would be guilty of mortal sin. (New Advent)
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Viki63
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I think it’s often related to depression. People give up and eat for comfort, and find it hard to get back on track in our junk-food society. Like any person suffering from an addiction, they would be less responsible for their activity.
There is a great documentary “Forks over Knives,” that describes how to lose weight and be healthy. It’s on Netflix, Hulu, and other places, check out www.forksoverknives.com.
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SeekNFind
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The other thing about being overweight/obese is a lot of assumptions are made. Some people (although the proportion is probably small) are overweight/obese for legitimate health reasons ie thyroid issues, PCOS, steroid use, Cushing’s, etc. However, people automatically think fat=eating problem. It’s not always so cut and dry. And it may be the combination of both an eating disorder and a medical condition.
Also, people of lower SE status have easier access to convenience food. It’s cheaper and lasts longer. Fruit, veggies and lean meats are the most expensive items in stores. However, one can get a who pack of cookie for $1
Also, people of lower SE status have easier access to convenience food. It’s cheaper and lasts longer. Fruit, veggies and lean meats are the most expensive items in stores. However, one can get a who pack of cookie for $1
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Havard
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I doubt anyone means to “bash” anyone else, and especially not the very poor or those with the sort of health problems which make losing weight difficult.
That said, there are plenty of things the rest of us can do:
-First off, you can simply monitor your calories, and then cut back. Even if you only eat cookies (God forbid), you can still go from 2500 cal of cookies a day to 1800 cal of cookies a day.
-Second, if you have time to watch tv, you have time to exercise. There are a ton of free online workout videos, check youtube, google videos, etc.
-Third, drink water! It’s practically free, and it’s one of the best things for losing weight!
-Finally, if at all possible, cut back on eating out. Sure it requires more work and planning, but restaurant food is usually more expensive and/or more calories.
That said, there are plenty of things the rest of us can do:
-First off, you can simply monitor your calories, and then cut back. Even if you only eat cookies (God forbid), you can still go from 2500 cal of cookies a day to 1800 cal of cookies a day.
-Second, if you have time to watch tv, you have time to exercise. There are a ton of free online workout videos, check youtube, google videos, etc.
-Third, drink water! It’s practically free, and it’s one of the best things for losing weight!
-Finally, if at all possible, cut back on eating out. Sure it requires more work and planning, but restaurant food is usually more expensive and/or more calories.
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AthenaC
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Please reread what I actually wrote without the subtext you provided. In particular, please point out to me precisely where I “point the finger at the farmer.”
Fact: People in the aggregate respond to the structure of incentives. This includes pricing incentives. This is a basic fact of economics.
Fact: Corn and sugar subsidies exist for the purpose of lowering the market price of corn and sugar to an artificially low level. In turn, the market price of processed food (which I already pointed out contains corn and sugar prodcuts) is lowered to an artificially low level.
Fact: When items are subsidized, and the market prices are brought to an artificially low level as a result, other items (for example, fruits and vegetables) are comparatively more expensive.
Fact: In the aggregate, people choose cheaper items, especially when they are trying to stretch their dollars. This is the landscape of grocery choices the poor face. Unfortunately, empty calories to not nourish the body and instead sit on the body as excess weight.
Bonus fact: Without current sugar and corn subsidies, these items could not be produced profitably at current market prices. Which tells you what?
time warp to Econ 101
If such subsidies were to vanish tomorrow, there would be a LOT less corn and sugar on the market (after the current production cycle has finished of course). But demand hasn’t gone anywhere. In the short run, the price of corn and sugar would go through the roof. Which would suddenly cause the price of processed foods to likewise go through the roof such that healthier items would be more economical choices. Now, after that first spike in corn and sugar prices, more producers would enter the market, increasing the quantities and causing the price to go back down. But even in the long run, the equilibrium price would not be as low as the artificially low price currently created by subsidies.
Bonus fact: While you were busy jumping to the conclusion that I was “pointing the finger at the farmer,” plenty of farmers were busy making money off of producing sugar and corn. I don’t begrudge them this at all. But the consequences of our food pricing in the aggregate have been disastrous for the health of the poor. And we wonder why Medicaid costs are so high, even with the abysmal Medicaid reimbursement rate in most states …
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Rita77
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wow causing the price of corn and sugar going up won’t magically make fruit and vegies more affordable when the price of fruit and vegies stays the same. healthy foods would only be a more economical choice if the price of healthy foods went down or income goes up. I don’t understand subsidies and don’t care to. there are many factors to carefully consider when trying to make fruits and vegies more affordable and available year round and even in colder climates. they cost more because they are way more perishable, short growing season, and labor (hand picked) and equipment cost are way more then corn and sugar etc also transportaion (refrigerated trucks). there is no way to make fruits and vegies more affordable then corn and sugar etc because of these factors. raising the price of corn and sugar wont help, then people wont even be able to afford box food and have nothing afordable to buy. there are many great things going on to help for example our farmers market takes food stamps. I don’t want to keep arguing with you about subsidies because I think there are more efficiente ways to fix the problems. we can agree to disagree about subsidies and corn and sugar. but I think we are both on the same page that they people need heaither food at a more affordable price.
If such subsidies were to vanish tomorrow, there would be a LOT less corn and sugar on the market (after the current production cycle has finished of course). But demand hasn’t gone anywhere. In the short run, the price of corn and sugar would go through the roof. Which would suddenly cause the price of processed foods to likewise go through the roof such that healthier items would be more economical choices. Now, after that first spike in corn and sugar prices, more producers would enter the market, increasing the quantities and causing the price to go back down. But even in the long run, the equilibrium price would not be as low as the artificially low price currently created by subsidies.
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AthenaC
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Rita77 -
The key word is “comparative.” People make choices with finite resources. Bottom line - if the price of sugar and corn goes up, and processed foods become more expensive than healthier foods, than buying fruits and vegetables becomes more affordable in comparison.
The key word is “comparative.” People make choices with finite resources. Bottom line - if the price of sugar and corn goes up, and processed foods become more expensive than healthier foods, than buying fruits and vegetables becomes more affordable in comparison.
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manualman
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You might want to caveat this statement as possibly being true only in poor urban areas that lack supermarkets.
I have a hard time believing that highly processed food is cheaper than bagged dried beans, potatos and brown rice. These are the traditional means of stretching the expensive foods (aka meats) and they’re still cheap. But are they for sale in urban poor areas? Dunno.
Now it sure takes a lot longer to cook up some red beans and rice in which a 1/2 pound of sausage can be stretched to make a delicious meal for a family of 5 than it does to just go grab several $1 McDoubles and pass them out! But that is NOT just economics at play, it’s cultural decay.
Now that I said all that I WANT some red beans and rice!
I know what causes my gut overhang. It’s me and my gluttony. Never met a chocolate chip cookie I didn’t like…
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ZoeyBdo
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You could just do what a friend of mine does: She has a great garden, and grows her own veggies, lettuce, you name it.
She’s a stay at home mom of two boys, and her husband works.
They had to make serious cutbacks so that she could stay home, but felt it was worth it.
They do not have cell phones.
They do not have cable tv.
They do not shop at the mall, in fact, she loves going to the thrift stores, and finding bargains to clothe her family.
They do not have a lot of money, but they have a lot of love and make do.
I think of my grandmother and grandfather raising 11 children…both raised poor in Pennsylvania. They didn’t have stouffer’s and tv dinners. They didn’t go out to eat every night at the local diner.
She cooked. Betty Crocker by her side and her family recipe’s… they cooked.
My grandparents moved to Cleveland from rural Pennsylvania and raised those children well. Living in the city they still managed to provide fresh foods, meats, vegetables.
Why am I telling you this? Because it’s all about choice. Living in the inner-city or being poor doesn’t mean that you still don’t have a choice about what you put in your mouth.
She’s a stay at home mom of two boys, and her husband works.
They had to make serious cutbacks so that she could stay home, but felt it was worth it.
They do not have cell phones.
They do not have cable tv.
They do not shop at the mall, in fact, she loves going to the thrift stores, and finding bargains to clothe her family.
They do not have a lot of money, but they have a lot of love and make do.
I think of my grandmother and grandfather raising 11 children…both raised poor in Pennsylvania. They didn’t have stouffer’s and tv dinners. They didn’t go out to eat every night at the local diner.
She cooked. Betty Crocker by her side and her family recipe’s… they cooked.
My grandparents moved to Cleveland from rural Pennsylvania and raised those children well. Living in the city they still managed to provide fresh foods, meats, vegetables.
Why am I telling you this? Because it’s all about choice. Living in the inner-city or being poor doesn’t mean that you still don’t have a choice about what you put in your mouth.
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mellowcalico
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I struggle with weight a lot. I always have. Right now, according to the BMI chart, I fall into the “overweight” category. And it’s true, I need to lose weight. For me, it’s not really a health issue or even an eating issue… it’s an exercise issue.
I eat the way you are supposed to… lots of veggies and whole grains, etc. And I count everything (calories, carbs, fat, protein and fiber anyway). I am doing Weight Watchers right now and I have to log and account for every bit of food I eat.
Exercise is my Achilles heel. I have to exercise at least an hour a day or I don’t lose weight. If I don’t do any exercise, even eating right I gain. For me, it’s just finding the time… which I’ve been good at for a while. I’ve slowly lost weight since last year.
But now I am sidelined with a knee injury. Everything I’ve tried hurts my knee and makes it swell up. Even just standing for an hour results in a sore, swollen knee. It’s frustrating and I am not losing weight anymore–in fact the scale says I am up two pounds since I hurt myself. I am eagerly looking forward to swimming season so I can get exercise again.
But my point is, I get frustrated when people assume it’s easy to lose weight and that overweight people are just lazy, eat nothing but junk food, or whatever. I think most overweight people have tried and tried again to lose weight. And if it was easy, we would all be thin.
I also get annoyed that people assume overweight automatically makes you unhealthy. I am in perfect health other than my weight (well, and my darn knee now). Just had my annual physical and my blood work is all great, I have a textbook perfect cholesterol, and my blood pressure and resting pulse rate are excellent. When I am out on the trails I have better endurance than a lot of thinner people I know. Sure, you can say it’s because I am working on losing weight and exercising–but so are a lot of other overweight people.
One other thing that I’ve always wondered that I never see addressed. Is the US becoming more overweight not only because of eating and exercise habits, but also because we are getting older? Boomers make up most of the population and they are getting to their retirement years. Weight gain when you are older seems to happen easier and is harder to battle.
I eat the way you are supposed to… lots of veggies and whole grains, etc. And I count everything (calories, carbs, fat, protein and fiber anyway). I am doing Weight Watchers right now and I have to log and account for every bit of food I eat.
Exercise is my Achilles heel. I have to exercise at least an hour a day or I don’t lose weight. If I don’t do any exercise, even eating right I gain. For me, it’s just finding the time… which I’ve been good at for a while. I’ve slowly lost weight since last year.
But now I am sidelined with a knee injury. Everything I’ve tried hurts my knee and makes it swell up. Even just standing for an hour results in a sore, swollen knee. It’s frustrating and I am not losing weight anymore–in fact the scale says I am up two pounds since I hurt myself. I am eagerly looking forward to swimming season so I can get exercise again.
But my point is, I get frustrated when people assume it’s easy to lose weight and that overweight people are just lazy, eat nothing but junk food, or whatever. I think most overweight people have tried and tried again to lose weight. And if it was easy, we would all be thin.
I also get annoyed that people assume overweight automatically makes you unhealthy. I am in perfect health other than my weight (well, and my darn knee now). Just had my annual physical and my blood work is all great, I have a textbook perfect cholesterol, and my blood pressure and resting pulse rate are excellent. When I am out on the trails I have better endurance than a lot of thinner people I know. Sure, you can say it’s because I am working on losing weight and exercising–but so are a lot of other overweight people.
One other thing that I’ve always wondered that I never see addressed. Is the US becoming more overweight not only because of eating and exercise habits, but also because we are getting older? Boomers make up most of the population and they are getting to their retirement years. Weight gain when you are older seems to happen easier and is harder to battle.
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AthenaC
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My good sir,
Economics is ALWAYS at play.
What you just described is the economics of time in combination with the economics of money.
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manualman
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Please note the word “just” in my quote. Earlier posts have implied that these days it costs less money to east junk food than more nutritious stuff. I’m just wondering if that’s true or if claimants need to bring ancillary arguments like “time is money” into the equation when challenged on the claim. In your experience are these wholesome cheaper foods not available in poorer areas or was your time on food stamps not in one of these ‘food deserts?’ (Not a safe assumption - I can recall being on government cheese and powered milk for a time during my youth in the suburbs)My good sir,
Economics is ALWAYS at play.
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Rita77
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one problem with today is some of these urban inter cities most grocery stories went out of business because its easier and cheaper to buy a $1 Mc double. they are now called “food deserts”
also a short drive to the country to a local small farmer to buy products like meat, and veggies etc. there are small farmers in every state, it may take a little work find one but it can save money by cutting out the middle man (truck driver and grocery story). not all are cheaper organic is more expensive. also the smaller meat packing companies sell meat at market value its worth finding one in our area. I do all this and I pay market value plus processing for meat like beef thats like $2.5 lb (including steaks and roast). one reason is the local small meat companies have less expensive packing process making the processing cost less. my meat is wrapped in paper and I freeze it in my freezer. the paper is a pain but it saves a lot.
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Rita77
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time is money it takes more time to make nutritious meals but its not always more expensive. I like your rice and bean anology. thats one reason way 3rd world countries aren’t as obese as us they eat rice and beans and don’t have $1 Mc doubles. sometimes those beans etc got droped from an american plane providing food to 3rd world countries. you may like watching the show “food chart” on pbs it talkes about “food deserts” and had great ideas to fix some of the problems.
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AthenaC
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Touche!
It’s not an ancillary argument. Time is also a finite resource, like money. People make choices of how to spend any number of finite resources - time, money, social capital, attention … the list goes on.
I don’t believe my experience was typical, but I will share it anyway. I was in Fairbanks, AK, I had one and then two children, and I took no fewer than 18 credits in college each semester, although the typical number was more like 25, or in the case of my last semester, 28. I did this for 5 semesters. The only exception to the 18 credit rule was the semester I had my second child, where I only managed to take 7 credits (I signed up for 12, but had to drop 5). And these weren’t gimme, 100-level general ed classes. With the exception of two classes, they were all at least 300-level classes; I even had a total of 6 600-level (graduate-level) classes, because the 400-level classes for my degree were not being offered. Why am I pointing this out? Economics of time management are very real choices with what can be a VERY scarce resource.
Because my kids were under 5, I was on WIC, which meant that I got milk, eggs, individually-wrapped packages of string cheese, peanut butter (I had the option of dry beans instead, but frankly I didn’t know what to do with beans and I didn’t see that I had a lot of time or mental energy left to learn how to cook new things), cereal (I got plain Cheerios), and 100% juice. So I had a great assortment of food right there without even having to get into the $250 in food stamps I got each month.
Things I typically used my foodstamps for:
- Bread (no, not the $1 a loaf Wonderbread stuff; I spent $3 - $4 a loaf for nothing less than 100% whole grain bread. Yes, I read ingredient labels religiously. Exhibit A of healthy food being more expensive than processed stuff.)
- V-8 Splash. (Why? Well, I learned from experience that the kids wouldn’t eat vegetables reliably, which meant that they weren’t getting enough Vitamin A. Fortunately, V-8 Splash (and then V-8 Fusion, when it came out), has Vitamin A by virtue of the carrot juice and other vegetable juices it includes, which means it’s a natural source of Vitamin A. Yes, I read ingredient labels religiously. Yes, it was expensive, but it was my choice to pay more to make sure I didn’t leave any nutritional holes in our diet. Exhibit B of healthy food being more expensive than processed stuff.)
- Vegetables. (Why? Kept trying to feed them to the kids, of course. Occasionally they would eat them with peanut butter.)
- Fruit. (Finally figured out that they would eat Granny Smith apples, frozen grapes, and bananas.)
- Chicken nuggets and taquitos out of the freezer section (I saw these as emergency rations - easiest cooking I ever did when it’s your day “off” from class, but the kids want your attention and they won’t leave you alone long enough for you to even scramble some eggs. Plus your Income Tax professor has been teaching an annually updated version of the same class for the last 20 years and is completely disconnected from just how much work and time he is asking of his students. Not that I would have experienced this situation at all.
) - Miscellaneous other things that I kinda sorta knew how to cook. Honestly I don’t remember what else was in this category. I was a bit busy back then so most of it is kindofa blur. I do remember I had a beef stew recipe that I liked, some other things involving ground beef, Bisquick, taco seasoning, canned vegetables … Also there was this Chinese place that had hot and sour soup with medicinal qualities; when I got sick I would find some money for that. Which meant that I got some free white rice that I could use with some water chestnuts and sesame oil and eggs and other spices to make fried rice. A $15 splurge for Chinese food would feed us for 3 days if I rationed it correctly.
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