Obey my husband

[1ke]

This is not the most popular passage in the Bible, but it’s there in black and white, inspired by the Holy Spirit:

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

(Ephesians 5:22-33)

Those are pretty clear words. And it is a pretty strong way to put it for Paul to say, “Wives, submit to your husbands as [you would / do] to the LORD.”

No Tara, it is not “black and white”. As always the Church is the authentic intepreter of Scripture, not individuals. And, the Church has a lot to say about Christian marriage. The Encyclical Casti Connubii is a good start.

It is important to have a full understanding of Ephesians (and its companion passage in Colossians) and not to interpret it to mean that a wife must “obey” a husband, which of course this passage does not say.

To submit means to give over or yield all authority to your husband. He IS the head of the wife (not just spiritually), as Christ is the head of the Church. He has the authority to make the decisions (which does NOT mean they are always - or even often - wise ones. He is a sinful man, and some are more sinful than others!), but scripture is clear that he has the authority and wives must submit to their husbands in everything.

This is not an authentic understanding of the complementary roles of husband and wife, nor a proper interpretation of the passage. You say you are “considering Cathoclism” so perhaps you have come from a background that takes a fundamentalist approach to scripture and interpeting the bible. Broaden your horizons to understand the full meaning of the Sacrament of Marriage and the equal dignity of both spouses.

Don’t let the devil tempt you by making you feel oppressed by this! When you give yourself over to this truth, it is actually very liberating to know that these decisions are NOT your problem. They may cause you problems in the short-run, but it is not your problem to stress out and worry about what your husband does. Just support him & respect his decisions. God will be pleased by your submission, and he will reward you (sometimes with a happier marriage!).

Also, I want to add a little sidenote that if your husband would be totally unwilling to seek counseling, don’t let this be a point of argument either. If you know he would be totally opposed, don’t even go there. And don’t let that closed door be another source of despair for you! (I speak from personal experience.) Try putting your effort into making your husband happy, submitting to him as the scriptures teach, and respecting him. Keep at it! Do your part as best you can (though you may fail at times) and PRAY for your husband & your marriage, and let God work.

Hugs again!!

This woman is being abused by her husband with threats and intimidation. This is not biblical and she does NOT have to tolerate it.

 

[Alexia2000]

My husband is very controlling. He is not abusive in any way but he is very ready to leave me when I don’t do what he wants. My question is : is it my duty to follow him regardless of what I think about any situation.

One current problem is we rent land near (very close) to family. He wants to move. and I agree but he wants to use the last of our savings to buy land. I disagree but have to be cautious of my words because if I dont listen he will leave me. So i am scared to open my mouth. Is it my duty to follow him with my head hung low behind his decision?

I dont think I will say anything to him, but am just curious to the length i have to go to to keep my husband happy.

Do you intend to purchase him so he doesn’t leave you?

Doesn’t seem to me that this is a mutually respectful relationship

I would want to be with someone because that someone loves me and wants to be with me no matter what

 

[TaraJoBean]

No Tara, it is not “black and white”. As always the Church is the authentic intepreter of Scripture, not individuals. And, the Church has a lot to say about Christian marriage. The Encyclical Casti Connubii is a good start.

It is important to have a full understanding of Ephesians (and its companion passage in Colossians) and not to interpret it to mean that a wife must “obey” a husband, which of course this passage does not say.

This is not an authentic understanding of the complementary roles of husband and wife, nor a proper interpretation of the passage. You say you are “considering Cathoclism” so perhaps you have come from a background that takes a fundamentalist approach to scripture and interpeting the bible. Broaden your horizons to understand the full meaning of the Sacrament of Marriage and the equal dignity of both spouses.

This woman is being abused by her husband with threats and intimidation. This is not biblical and she does NOT have to tolerate it.

I am considering the Catholic faith, but I also have been studying with the Priest from the catechism and I have friends who are very knowledgeable and devoted Catholics. In fact, I asked one of them about the submission issue and he said though feminism is rampant in the Church, my view is correct.

I would be shocked if you could find any church teaching that says wives do not have to submit to their husbands (unless their husbands are asking them to sin). And the scriptures are abundantly clear. I wonder what “submit to your husband in everything” could even mean to you at all if you deny that it means subject yourself to his authority…

edited to add: It doesn’t matter whether the husband is acting biblically or not (I agree, he’s not). There is no condition that IF you are treated nicely, THEN submit to your husband, just like there is condition that IF you have a great and holy king or president, then submit to him, but if he’s not, then you don’t have to submit to his authority.

I think this is another reason divorce is so rampant. People think, you aren’t living up to the vows you took before God, so I’m leaving. What?! So if one person breaks their promise, it’s OK to break yours?? That’s just as bad.

 

[1ke]

I am considering the Catholic faith, but I also have been studying with the Priest from the catechism and I have friends who are very knowledgeable and devoted Catholics. In fact, I asked one of them about the submission issue and he said though feminism is rampant in the Church, my view is correct.

Your view is partially correct. Again I submit to you the** very **rich body of teaching of the Church including papal documents such as Casti Connubii, Familaris Consortio, and Mulieris Dignitatem.

I would be shocked if you could find any church teaching that says wives do not have to submit to their husbands (unless their husbands are asking them to sin).

Casti Connubii (26-28)

1. Domestic society being confirmed, therefore, by this bond of love, there should flourish in it that “order of love,” as St. Augustine calls it. This order includes both the primacy of the husband with regard to the wife and children, the ready subjection of the wife and her willing obedience, which the Apostle commends in these words: “Let women be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ is the head of the Church.”
2. **This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; nor does it bid her obey her husband’s every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is not customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs. **But it forbids that exaggerated liberty which cares not for the good of the family; it forbids that in this body which is the family, the heart be separated from the head to the great detriment of the whole body and the proximate danger of ruin. For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place in ruling, so she may and ought to claim for herself the chief place in love.
3. **Again, this subjection of wife to husband in its degree and manner may vary according to the different conditions of persons, place and time. In fact, if the husband neglect his duty, it falls to the wife to take his place in directing the family. **But the structure of the family and its fundamental law, established and confirmed by God, must always and everywhere be maintained intact .

And the scriptures are abundantly clear. I wonder what “submit to your husband in everything” could even mean to you at all if you deny that it means subject yourself to his authority…

See above.

edited to add: It doesn’t matter whether the husband is acting biblically or not (I agree, he’s not). There is no condition that IF you are treated nicely, THEN submit to your husband, just like there is condition that IF you have a great and holy king or president, then submit to him, but if he’s not, then you don’t have to submit to his authority.

See above. Also see Mulieris Dignitatem:

1. The text is addressed to the spouses as real women and men. It reminds them of the “ethos” of spousal love which goes back to the divine institution of marriage from the “beginning”. Corresponding to the truth of this institution is the exhortation: “Husbands, love your wives”, love them because of that special and unique bond whereby in marriage a man and a woman become “one flesh” (Gen 2:24; Eph 5:31). In this love there is a fundamental affirmation of the woman as a person. This affirmation makes it possible for the female personality to develop fully and be enriched. This is precisely the way Christ acts as the bridegroom of the Church; he desires that she be “in splendour, without spot or wrinkle” (Eph 5:27). One can say that this fully captures the whole “style” of Christ in dealing with women. Husbands should make their own the elements of this style in regard to their wives; analogously, all men should do the same in regard to women in every situation. In this way both men and women bring about “the sincere gift of self”.

The author of the Letter to the Ephesians sees no contradiction between an exhortation formulated in this way and the words: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife” (5:22-23). The author knows that this way of speaking, so profoundly rooted in the customs and religious tradition of the time, is to be understood and carried out in a new way: as a “mutual subjection out of reverence for Christ” (cf. Eph 5:21). This is especially true because the husband is called the “head” of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church; he is so in order to give “himself up for her” (Eph 5:25), and giving himself up for her means giving up even his own life. However, whereas in the relationship between Christ and the Church the subjection is only on the part of the Church, in the relationship between husband and wife the “subjection” is not one-sided but mutual.

I think this is another reason divorce is so rampant. People think, you aren’t living up to the vows you took before God, so I’m leaving. What?! So if one person breaks their promise, it’s OK to break yours?? That’s just as bad.

Although I have not recommended leaving-- I recommended talking to a priest-- abuse is not the same as “not living up to vows.” The Church does not expect a woman to be abused in the name of “obedience.”

 

[TaraJoBean]

Although I have not recommended leaving-- I recommended talking to a priest-- abuse is not the same as “not living up to vows.” The Church does not expect a woman to be abused in the name of “obedience.”

I don’t have time to read your whole post and think about it this minute, but I’m glad you didn’t recommend leaving. I was kind of making that point because SO many people recommended leaving. I didn’t even remember whether you said that or not.

That said, the woman said she is not being abused and I believe her to be the best judge of whether or not she is being abused. I think people are quick to cry “abuse! abuse!” when a husband is a manipulative jerk. There’s a difference between a jerk and someone who is abusive, in my opinion. I think people may be overreacting a bit.

I also suspect that a lot of people have a double-standard since people seem to cry “abuse!” much more readily when the manipulative jerk is the husband and not the wife. There are plenty of wives who are manipulative jerks to their husbands but we see it more for what it is… she’s being a jerk, but not “abusing” her ignorant cowering husband.

That’s just my opinion. If she says she’s not being abused, I say we believe her.

 

[Smara]

once again , no abuse.
I will not leave my husband. I just wanted to know about the “obey” rule or if their was one.
I love my husband but not his faults. I also am not a sin-less person, so thanks for your replies!

 

[Bishop93]

Why would you want to stay married to a awful man like this?..Let him leave to show him you don’t care…And maybe he’ll change his ways and you can take him back.

My mother fears her husband and she would leave if she didn’t have that fear…NOBODY should have to fear their husband.

NOBODY should have to deal with a verbally and emotionally abusive spouse.

 

[puzzleannie]

My husband is very controlling. He is not abusive in any way but he is very ready to leave me when I don’t do what he wants.

this is an oxymoron. get help for dealing with this person, and get it now. we will be praying for you.

 

[The_Geographer]

Why stay with someone who does not respect you and whom you are afraid to be upfront with?

To save him.

 

[The_Geographer]

Abuse can take many forms, not just the physical. He is emotionally and psychologically blackmailing you and that is abuse.

He probably was victimized as well and this may be the underlying problem. It sounds to me that he is emotionally insecure.

 

[The_Geographer]

once again , no abuse.
I will not leave my husband. I just wanted to know about the “obey” rule or if their was one.
I love my husband but not his faults. I also am not a sin-less person, so thanks for your replies!

Smara,
I truly appreciate your conviction to stay with your husband. This is very holy of you to do. Many Christians have lost a sense of what true heroism is supposed to be like. It’s true that he is exhibiting abusive traits towards controlling you. But, by loving him and setting an example and praying for him it is very possible that he will come around one day.

How long have you been married? And are children in the picture now or in the future? I would recommend that you lure him to counseling. It probably won’t be easy. The best thing would be to enter into it yourself and by your example get him to come into it somewhere later on.

Google E-5 Men and then print it and had it to him. Encourage him to watch the videos as testimony of men and women as a result of realizing his role as a man.

 

[Rascalking]

Ma’am, you are a truly a wonderful person for wanting to focus on your marriage.

However, I am very concerned-it sounds abusive. Some people who are abused don’t think they are.

Please, please, please take a look at this and talk with a priest, and a therapist…

We’re praying for you.

 

[The_Geographer]

My wife used to threaten to leave me every time we had a disagreement. She hasn’t done this in 3 years now and I haven’t felt the abuse of her threats. But after 20 years of being together I have placed all of my trust in Jesus Christ and he was my support while I endured it. It wasn’t until she finally converted to Catholicism that she seems to realize she can not continue to blackmail me with these abusive words without needing to confess them. Although the confessional seal is present she’s mortified at having to admit she committed such a sin. At least that’s my assessment on the issue. But maybe one day she’ll find the courage to elaborate. I also know that she did it for reasons I found out through our convalidation, children’s baptism and their confirmations [oldest son and her - I baptized my oldest son]. It seems that she grew up emotionally and spiritually after receiving the help she needed from converting and seeking spiritual advice from our pastor. They are very good friends today. I helped start it by asking him to call her on one of her down days. He remarkably carried it out with such genuine charm that it stole her heart and she learned to finally trust.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Your view is partially correct. Again I submit to you the** very **rich body of teaching of the Church including papal documents such as Casti Connubii, Familaris Consortio, and Mulieris Dignitatem.

Casti Connubii (26-28)

1. Domestic society being confirmed, therefore, by this bond of love, there should flourish in it that “order of love,” as St. Augustine calls it. This order includes both the primacy of the husband with regard to the wife and children, the ready subjection of the wife and her willing obedience, which the Apostle commends in these words: “Let women be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ is the head of the Church.”
2. **This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; nor does it bid her obey her husband’s every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is not customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs. **But it forbids that exaggerated liberty which cares not for the good of the family; it forbids that in this body which is the family, the heart be separated from the head to the great detriment of the whole body and the proximate danger of ruin. For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place in ruling, so she may and ought to claim for herself the chief place in love.
3. **Again, this subjection of wife to husband in its degree and manner may vary according to the different conditions of persons, place and time. In fact, if the husband neglect his duty, it falls to the wife to take his place in directing the family. **But the structure of the family and its fundamental law, established and confirmed by God, must always and everywhere be maintained intact .

See above.

See above. Also see Mulieris Dignitatem:

1. The text is addressed to the spouses as real women and men. It reminds them of the “ethos” of spousal love which goes back to the divine institution of marriage from the “beginning”. Corresponding to the truth of this institution is the exhortation: “Husbands, love your wives”, love them because of that special and unique bond whereby in marriage a man and a woman become “one flesh” (Gen 2:24; Eph 5:31). In this love there is a fundamental affirmation of the woman as a person. This affirmation makes it possible for the female personality to develop fully and be enriched. This is precisely the way Christ acts as the bridegroom of the Church; he desires that she be “in splendour, without spot or wrinkle” (Eph 5:27). One can say that this fully captures the whole “style” of Christ in dealing with women. Husbands should make their own the elements of this style in regard to their wives; analogously, all men should do the same in regard to women in every situation. In this way both men and women bring about “the sincere gift of self”.

The author of the Letter to the Ephesians sees no contradiction between an exhortation formulated in this way and the words: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife” (5:22-23). The author knows that this way of speaking, so profoundly rooted in the customs and religious tradition of the time, is to be understood and carried out in a new way: as a “mutual subjection out of reverence for Christ” (cf. Eph 5:21). This is especially true because the husband is called the “head” of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church; he is so in order to give “himself up for her” (Eph 5:25), and giving himself up for her means giving up even his own life. However, whereas in the relationship between Christ and the Church the subjection is only on the part of the Church, in the relationship between husband and wife the “subjection” is not one-sided but mutual.

Although I have not recommended leaving-- I recommended talking to a priest-- abuse is not the same as “not living up to vows.” The Church does not expect a woman to be abused in the name of “obedience.”

Sooooo True… The Dignity of the Human Person… She can leave, maybe not marry again, but she is not suppossed to give up her person to an abusing husband.
CCC 1610, 2333, 2334, 2335,

PLEASE READ 1649… It pertains directly to the OP. You do not have to remain.

 

[Felix_Il_Gatto]

My husband is very controlling. He is not abusive in any way but he is very ready to leave me when I don’t do what he wants. My question is : is it my duty to follow him regardless of what I think about any situation.

One current problem is we rent land near (very close) to family. He wants to move. and I agree but he wants to use the last of our savings to buy land. I disagree but have to be cautious of my words because if I dont listen he will leave me. So i am scared to open my mouth. Is it my duty to follow him with my head hung low behind his decision?

I dont think I will say anything to him, but am just curious to the length i have to go to to keep my husband happy.

The fact that he keeps you in a state of fear over him leaving you for any disagreement with him is psychological and emotional abuse. He is not allowing you to be your own person by making threats against you. This is verbal abuse.
Just because you are married to him doesn’t mean you belong to him. You should run your lives as a couple together, not just the way he wants it. Part of marriage is compromise. It’s a marriage, not a dictatorship.

 

[The_Geographer]

Sooooo True… The Dignity of the Human Person… She can leave, maybe not marry again, but she is not suppossed to give up her person to an abusing husband.
CCC 1610, 2333, 2334, 2335,

PLEASE READ 1649… It pertains directly to the OP. You do not have to remain.

You are acting like she bought a car, not entered into a sacred marriage. She’s already clearly stated she would never leave her husband. We need to be respectful of her decision to be a Saint.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

You are acting like she bought a car, not entered into a sacred marriage. She’s already clearly stated she would never leave her husband. We need to be respectful of her decision to be a Saint.

Never is a usually a pretty big word and stating what I need to do to be a Saint seems to me to be rather presumptuous, but that being said I am new to the Church and obviously you know the way to heaven.

I had thought asking her to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church would be a good thing in case she has been misled to believe that she has no recourse but to stay with an abuser by some misinformed or ignorant posters. Maybe I should not try and point out information in the CCC

I mistakenly thought that if after reading and understanding that it is not the position of the Church that she must raise her children in an abusive household, she chooses not to leave him then she has made an informed decision for her and her children.

I again stupidly thought that most everyone would want her to know what the CCC says.

 

[The_Geographer]

Never is a usually a pretty big word and stating what I need to do to be a Saint seems to me to be rather presumptuous, but that being said I am new to the Church and obviously you know the way to heaven.

I had thought asking her to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church would be a good thing in case she has been misled to believe that she has no recourse but to stay with an abuser by some misinformed or ignorant posters. Maybe I should not try and point out information in the CCC

I mistakenly thought that if after reading and understanding that it is not the position of the Church that she must raise her children in an abusive household, she chooses not to leave him then she has made an informed decision for her and her children.

I again stupidly thought that most everyone would want her to know what the CCC says.

I think you need to work on your formation a bit more, judging by the way you slightly attempted to slander me. You miss the point as many seem to do. Statistics show that children benefit from having both parents even in a strained relationship. I’m not suggesting that she allow this to go on. But I didn’t see where you encouraged her to seek professional help in this situation. It’s clear to me that she needs to speak to her pastor initially and then go from there. But the priests have only so much time to help and after so many visits on the same subject they send them off to counseling. And yes, I know the way to heaven, as you should too. We are all called to holiness and the Church clearly marks the way…so follow the Church’s teaching and you will be okay. I be following right behind you just in case you stumble. And I hope the other will pick me up when I fall as well.

Counseling is the key solution that everyone should be hinting too, not all this “GET OUT NOW” rhetoric.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Ma’am, you are a truly a wonderful person for wanting to focus on your marriage.

However, I am very concerned-it sounds abusive. Some people who are abused don’t think they are.

Please, please, please take a look at this and talk with a priest, and a therapist…

We’re praying for you.

 

[The_Geographer]

once again , no abuse.
I will not leave my husband. I just wanted to know about the “obey” rule or if their was one.
I love my husband but not his faults. I also am not a sin-less person, so thanks for your replies!

Might I assume you drive him crazy like most women do to their husbands.