Obeying Allah first then Muhammed!

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Sam_777

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I cannot digest this hadith where Muhammed put himself first…
I think Muhammed better said “He who obeys Allah THEN me”.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 204:
That heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “We are the last but will be the foremost to enter Paradise).” The Prophet added, “He who obeys me, obeys Allah, and he who disobeys me, disobeys Allah. He who obeys the chief, obeys me, and he who disobeys the chief, disobeys me. The Imam is like a shelter for whose safety the Muslims should fight and where they should seek protection. If the Imam orders people with righteousness and rules justly, then he will be rewarded for that, and if he does the opposite, he will be responsible for that.”
صحيح البخاري » كتاب الجهاد والسير » باب يقاتل من وراء الإمام ويتقى به:
وَبِهَذَا الْإِسْنَادِ مَنْ أَطَاعَنِي فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ وَمَنْ عَصَانِي فَقَدْ عَصَى اللَّهَ وَمَنْ يُطِعْ الْأَمِيرَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَنِي وَمَنْ يَعْصِ الْأَمِيرَ فَقَدْ عَصَانِي وَإِنَّمَا الْإِمَامُ جُنَّةٌ يُقَاتَلُ مِنْ وَرَائِهِ وَيُتَّقَى بِهِ فَإِنْ أَمَرَ بِتَقْوَى اللَّهِ وَعَدَلَ فَإِنَّ لَهُ بِذَلِكَ أَجْرًا وَإِنْ قَالَ بِغَيْرِهِ فَإِنَّ عَلَيْهِ مِنْهُ
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(E) (A)
 
If he was stating that he was the only one currently (at the time) able to express the will of Allah, then his statement tracks logically.
 
To me it doesn’t read like he’s putting himself first.

Although I intensely dislike how muslims extend the second commandment to Mohammed :o
 
*Luke *10:16
Jesus said, Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
The Prophet added, "He who obeys me, obeys Allah, and he who disobeys me, disobeys Allah. He who obeys the chief, obeys me, and he who disobeys the chief, disobeys me.
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I am not equating the two, but for a man who was familiar with the teachings of Christ - this was not a new concept to him. Moreover, it is a great deception and detraction by Satan.
 
Muhammed might as well have said “Sod it all, I’ll make myself a god.”
 
Bezant said:
Muhammed might as well have said “Sod it all, I’ll make myself a god.”
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Too bad (for your argument) that the Qur’an says over and over that he’s just a man. It’s not Muslims who made a man a god.
 
Sam–check out the Qur’an first, Surat an-Nisaa’ 80, Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed Allah. And repeatedly, “Obey Allah and the Messenger.”

Can’t do one without the other.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Sam–check out the Qur’an first, Surat an-Nisaa’ 80, Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed Allah. And repeatedly, “Obey Allah and the Messenger.”

Can’t do one without the other.
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Yes, i guess you cant go without following a man and his made up allah;)
 
Sister_Amy said:
Too bad (for your argument) that the Qur’an says over and over that he’s just a man. It’s not Muslims who made a man a god.
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No Amy, my error. I am in fact speaking against the O.P. but I’ve left my sarcasm ambiguous.

If Muhammed wanted to make himself god he might as well have said so explicitly and consistently.
 
While I agree that even in the Qur’an too much emphasis is put on obeying Muhammad, I must say that this hadith is really a non issue. It’s no different to a police officer saying “If you obey me, you obey the law.” He’s not saying that he is greater than the law, but that his is the embodiment of the law. This is somewhat of a moot point.

There are more important issues to discuss regarding Islam. Such as how the Qur’an says that Catholics worship Mary as part of the Trinity (if I remember right). This is clearly a very major misrepresentation of Catholic beliefs that only someone who is ignorant to Catholicism could make (many Christians today still do, unfortunately). Some heretical churches in Arabia may have done so at the time, but that was a minority and not representative of the mainstream Catholic Church at the time.

Though, I am going somewhat off-topic, and so this should be made into a separate thread if anyone wishes to discuss matters such as the one I outlined above further.
 
The Qur’an actually does not say that–rather, that’s what some folks mistakenly try to read into the text.
 
I think most of you did not understand what was my point!, that hadith makes “Quran” and “Muhammed’ hadiths” equivalent, so anyone following the Quran MUST also follow all Muhammed hadiths at least in “Sahih Bukhari” and “Sahih Muslim”.

For example let us take this authentic hadith by Muhammed:
**Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5389:
**“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.”
(E)

I personally will never obey Muhammed in that…
 
I have no problem with Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 204. And though it seems to mimic Lk 10:16 ;), it is only logical explanation for a person who claimed to receive revelations from Allah as Jesus is the perfect example of man of God who brought forth God’s word.

However, and I agree with Sam’s above post, Hadith 204 at least not in my eyes, enhances who and what Allah is. There are so many Mohammad’s personal action and saying that are problematic with me to make them actually came from God. It will enhance Islam better had those action and teachings of Mohammad were attributed to him as a person rather than from Allah; it would be better if Mohammad was depicted as a person who could make mistake and sinned in life. Then one can say, the good that came out of him was from Allah while the ordinary was from his own human weakness. But well, this is Islam, and it is what it is. 🤷
 
Sister_Amy said:
Too bad (for your argument) that the Qur’an says over and over that he’s just a man. It’s not Muslims who made a man a god.
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That’s his excuse for not being able to perform any miracles or provide any evidence for his position as a prophet.
 
FightingFat said:
That’s his excuse for not being able to perform any miracles or provide any evidence for his position as a prophet.
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Sounds like you’re contradicting yourself to me.

Miracles by definition defy evidence. There is no logic or proof for an event that is illogical and otherwise should not happen.

In any case, if prophets qualified are by miracles Harry Houdini is a Prophet.
 
Bezant said:
Sounds like you’re contradicting yourself to me.

Miracles by definition defy evidence. There is no logic or proof for an event that is illogical and otherwise should not happen.

In any case, if prophets qualified are by miracles Harry Houdini is a Prophet.
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I was referring to the prophet’s response when asked to perform miracles.
 
Originally Posted by FightingFat
I was referring to the prophet’s response when asked to perform miracles.
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Bezant said:
My error. Could you reference that chapter/verse?
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Ar-Rad 13
7 And the Unbelievers say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.

Al-Anaam 6
37 They say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” Say: "(Allah) hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not.

Yunus 10
20 They say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” Say: “The Unseen is only for Allah (to know), then wait ye: I too will wait with you.”
 
There are many ahadith which equate the teachings of Muhammad to the Qur’an, at least from a legal perspective. There are some ayaat which do this as well. When it comes to Islamic law, the saying of Muhammad, if it’s been authenticated, can be equal to an ayah from the Qur’an. Muslims believe that both come from Allah.

The Qur’an is from Allah, directly and verbatim.
The Hadith, i.e., the teachings of Muhammad, come in the words of Muhammad but the essence of it is still part of divine guidance.

When the Messenger of Allah commands you to do something, what are you going to say, this isn’t from Allah? When it comes from Allah’s Messenger? It’s part of Islam to obey Allah and to obey the Messenger.

Similarly, how do Jews obey Allah without obeying Moses? I won’t say the same about Christians for obvious reasons, but from my point of view the logic is similarly sound.
 
jakasaki said:
Ar-Rad 13
7 And the Unbelievers say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.

Al-Anaam 6
37 They say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” Say: "(Allah) hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not.

Yunus 10
20 They say: “Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?” Say: “The Unseen is only for Allah (to know), then wait ye: I too will wait with you.”
Click to expand...
Thank you! 👍
 
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