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F
fix
Guest
Yes, sorry, circumstances.intention and circumstances
but ya --i thought it was very interesting.
There seems to be no logical way to define the moral object without looking to these other items. If murder is the intentional killing on an innocent person then we must mention intention which seems separate from an *intention *to murder to achieve some good end.
O
o_mlly
Guest
Sorry, no brass ring here either.
In logic, this scenario is called the false dilemma. Prayer as an objective good is not dependent on one’s location (circumstance). Tending to her duties, if offered up, is prayer in every sense of the term.
CCC #2597 Prayed and fulfilled in Christ, the Psalms are an essential and permanent element of the prayer of the Church. They are suitable for men of every condition and time.
CCC #2638 As in the prayer of petition, **every event **and need can become an offering of thanksgiving. The letters of St. Paul often begin and end with thanksgiving, and the Lord Jesus is always present in it: “Give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you”; "Continue steadfastly in prayer, being watchful in it with thanksgiving."120
B
Bookcat
Guest
Sorry you are not following what was said.
we are talking about going to the chapel to pray.
what you replied has nothing to do with it for it is not following the what was actually posted.
B
Bookcat
Guest
A nurse goes to the chapel to pray…
Good object: to pray
Good intention: to pray in thanksgiving for a grace
Bad circumstance: it is her time to work and she therefore neglects her patient
her only intention is to pray in thanksgiving.
no intent to neglect her duties.
I suppose i should had been more clear:
Good object: to pray
Good intention: to pray in thanksgiving for a grace
Bad circumstance: she prays in the chapel when she should be caring for her patients.
Good object: to pray
Good intention: to pray in thanksgiving for a grace
Bad circumstance: it is her time to work and she therefore neglects her patient
her only intention is to pray in thanksgiving.
no intent to neglect her duties.
I suppose i should had been more clear:
Good object: to pray
Good intention: to pray in thanksgiving for a grace
Bad circumstance: she prays in the chapel when she should be caring for her patients.
O
o_mlly
Guest
You are probably right in that I am having trouble following your posts so let’s end our exchange and agree to disagree.
Peace…
B
Bookcat
Guest
no… please respond…
you have brought up some interesting points…
I am thinking this out …
B
Bookcat
Guest
You see…on the one hand if one looks at the older mortal theology sources…one find it said directly that a circumstance can change an act into an evil one. And they sometimes give examples.
For instance both Jones…and Prummer OP say this.
But then one has this quote that you provided in the Catechism:
“Circumstances of themselves cannot change the moral quality of acts themselves”
and so one has to ask --what does this mean?
Does it mean that one needs a evil intention too? as you assert.
(not to say that intention is primary for understanding an act …for object is…but that is not what we are talking about here)
and thus theology has progressed in understanding here
or does it mean something else?
For instance the phrase moral quality of acts themselves -which may refer to such that “prayer” for instance is still objectively good…(this is speculation here) --or it could mean something else.
The Catechism and VS focus’s in on the fact that a circumstance can not change an evil into a good. and there is no explicit mention that a circumstance cannot change a good act into an evil…
The Catechism states too that:
1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together.
which infers at least that an act can be evil cause just one part …in this case circumstance is bad…
and one finds this expressed by others as that one needs a good object and good intention and good circumstances…which is true of course…and that if any one is missing the act is evil.
Perhaps though – you may be correct insofar as an evil intention or evil object are always involved in making an act evil (at least so far as guilt is concerned) or perhaps the fact that some circumstances are objects themselves…
again just reasoning this out…
in all thinks…let us look to the Church! but sometimes we have to work a bit to understand
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