Objection from a fallen away Catholic

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My dad, to be exact.

If the point of all religion is to attain perfection, and perfection is impossible, then religion makes no sense because it is the striving for imposibility.

Ok, first, its not a question, so how do I answer it? Second, knowing him, he probably got it out of a anti-religion book, so its probably contradictory or at least illogically based. Third, what do I do now? I don’t get it I pray for him and I try to help him but when these questions come up I don’t know what to do. Help please.:confused:
 
I personally have never seen it said that the purpose of religion is to attain perfection, so I am unsure of where he got that idea. However, if he is adamant about that, you can always let him know that if/when we attain heaven, we are made perfect by God. So in that sense, our religion helps us to recieve God’s gift of salvation, and that salvation in turn makes us perfect; so, our the main purpose of our relgion is actually making us perfect. Of course, we must always pray for the conversion/understanding of others.
 
Also,
If he is reading anti-religion books, he may be persuaded to read good religion books; find him a good one that can answer all of those questions. My dad hasn’t read a book in over 20 years, so I have to do all of the reading and explaining to him (he is almost in the same boat as your dad).
 
The point of religion is not perfection first of all. I second that… The point is to have a relationship with our almighty creator God to whom there is no equal.

So here is a scenario for you to try out and shead some light in what God is asking of him.

Open you bible and have him Read

Hosea 6:6 For it is love that I desire, not sacrifice, and **knowledge of God **rather than holocaust.

Then afterwards, take him outside of your house, or out somewhere and point to a stranger, and ask him do you love that person. Provided he don’t know them he will answer no.

Then ask him do you love me. He being your father will surely answer yes.

Then ask him what is the difference between the person I pointed out and myself, so why do you love me but not them?

Help lead him to the conclusion of the Truth which is he does not love them because he does not know them on a personal level, he has no relationship with them and he loves you because being his son he truly knows you and has had a relationship with you from your childhood.

Once he realizes this, then inform him, this is so with God as well, if you do not know God’s Word, if you do not know his Church, then you are incapable of truly loving him. You know of God but you don’t know God, there is a difference.

Explain that knowing God, is more than just going to Church on Sundays and following blindly, but it is reading his word daily, Old Testament and New Testament, entirely front to back of the book, and learning about his Church, and learning everything there is to know about God… Then once he has read it, and attempted every effort to understand it, I assure you he will find a relationship with God, because when you search forh him, he reveals himself to you, and once you actually know God, you won’t let him go even if your life on earth depends on it.

My journey to God was a rough one, skeptical of the Church and all mankind but the more I read the bible (read many different versions mainly so I could debate with believers of the Catholic faith and prove them to be hypocrytes) and the more I learned about the history of the Church and Christ’s existance on earth, and the more I learned from reading the entire Bible, I couldn’t help but become a devouted Roman Catholic, I found my way to the church through a KJV bible.

Try it, I use this all the time because knowledge of God is what opened my heart to him. I have yet to fell in bringing another closer to God, not because I am captivating but because God’s word pierces ones heart and takes control of him once revealed.

Luke 11:9 "And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks; receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Sometimes a challenge for one to search through the scripture to prove God doesn’t exist and religion is pointless can lead to him believing that he does and building a relationship with our awesome God.

Good Luck! I’ll be praying for you…👍
 
“If the point of all religion is to attain perfection”

The only religion I know of that believes that is Scientology. Seriously, almost literally no other religion believes that. Christianity, for example, is the opposite. A Christian has to admit that they’re not perfect and incapable of being so. Only God is perfect. The entire forgiveness paradigm would make no sense if perfection was a requirement.

“perfection is impossible, then religion makes no sense because it is the striving for impossibility.”

This is frankly stupid. I’ll never have an A in my chemistry class, but I’m still going to study and try. My brother will never be Usain Bolt, but he’s going to keep running track.
 
The commandments of God, summed up by Jesus in Matthew, require us to LOVE. This is the point
"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Jesus again speaks of love, practical acts of love, as being the basis of Christian life. See Matthew 25 verses 31-46. Jesus makes very clear that our practical acts of kindness are what God requires of us, what determines our eternal salvation, and what is the basis of religion.

Further:

“Since the Father loved us so much that He sent You to be the sacrifice that takes our sins away, we too should love one another.” [John 4:10-11] “By such love, everyone will know that we are Your disciples.” “Anyone who says ‘I love God’, and hates his brother is a liar, since a person who does not love the brother that he can see, cannot love God whom he has never seen.” [1 letter of John 4:20-21]
 
kooldood said:
My dad, to be exact.

If the point of all religion is to attain perfection, and perfection is impossible, then religion makes no sense because it is the striving for imposibility.

Ok, first, its not a question, so how do I answer it? Second, knowing him, he probably got it out of a anti-religion book, so its probably contradictory or at least illogically based. Third, what do I do now? I don’t get it I pray for him and I try to help him but when these questions come up I don’t know what to do. Help please.:confused:
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As others have discussed, his premise (the point of all religion is to attain perfection) is wrong, which therefore makes his conclusion incorrect as well. And Jesus tells us perfection is not impossible, as it will occur in heaven (of course, that won’t matter to someone who believes neither in Jesus or heaven).

When he presents these arguments, listen for the qualifier. In the example you give, it is “if”. He is not even stating it as fact, but making an assumption. That would be like me saying, “If the sun does not come up tomorrow…”

Perhaps the best way to respond is using the same tactic. Try saying, “If there is a God and a heaven, then…” He certainly can’t disprove your assumption.

Sounds like he is playing the “devil’s advocate”, and baiting you. Not a nice thing for a father to do to his son.
 
Again and again, the bible asks us to LOVe. It does not stress perfection, but what it continually stresses, what God continually stresses, is that as Christians, we must love.

Our love “is not to be mere words or mere talk, but something real and active; only by this can we be certain that we are children of the truth.” [John 3:18-19] Your apostle Paul exhorts, “Do not let your love be pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil. Love each other as brothers should, and have a profound respect for each other…If anyone is in need you must share with them; and you must make hospitality your special care.” [Romans 12:9-13]

“Be compassionate as your heavenly Father is compassionate” even to the sacrifice of His beloved Son. “Do not judge others and you will not yourself be judged. Grant pardon and you will be pardoned. Give, and there will be gifts for you: a full measure.” [Luke 6:36-38] “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; in this way you will be children of your Father in heaven, for He causes the sun to rise on bad men as well as good, and His rain to fall on honest and dishonest persons alike…You must therefore be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” [Matthew 5:43-48]

You see, this is what perfection is…not what we often think it is, “no failures no weaknesses”, no the perfection God wants is that we love one another in practical ways in as much as we honestly can. He describes perfection as love that we give even to our enemies, and yes, we can achieve forgiveness. Many people forgive what seems unforgeable in love of God.
 
Jesus calls us to be perfect. Settle for nothing less than perfection. “Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.” Matt 5:48.

Jesus would never tell us to do something that was impossible.
 
Jerok
Jesus calls us to be perfect. Settle for nothing less than perfection. “Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect.” Matt 5:48.
Jesus would never tell us to do something that was impossible.
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You are right. See CCC #2012 - 2016.

While we are unlikely to achieve perfection here, we are commanded to work towards it as we are called to holiness.
 
OraLabora said:
Sanctity is in the effort, not in perfection.
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Exactly.

I have another take on the question as well.

There was a time when it was thought impossible for trains to safely travel more than 19mph (it was thought air would be sucked out of the passengers’ lungs and they would die :rolleyes:). Other goals such as climbing to the summit of Mt Everest, doing the ascent without oxygen, and running a mile in under four minutes, were also thought (if memory serves) to be impossible at various times.

Many a remarkable achievement has occured in response to a comment of ‘that’s impossible!’
 
It has been said, but I’ll say again: Perfection is not impossible. Therefore it does not follow that religion as the striving for perfection makes no sense. Instead, religion is what makes striving for perfection make sense, in the sense that it offers us the hope of divine aid. People strive for perfection anyway, religion gives the substance of hope to that striving (‘hope’ in the Christian sense, not just ‘wishful thinking’).
 
Without religion, and particularly theistic religions that believe in an omnipotent, perfect Creator, we would have no basis to even discuss the idea of “perfection.”

Your father’s argument is inherently illogical to me: How can imperfect man become “perfect” of his own accord and by his own will?
 
Thank you everybody for your advice. Keep me and my father in your prayers.
 
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