Objections

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Hello, How do I respond to these atheist objections?

*’'There are two kind of Gods that I do not believe in, which require different kind of arguments. I think your God is in both category at the same time. The two category I am talking about are material and immaterial. Since this is a dicotomy, it covers all kind of possible gods. In other word, no god can be something else than material and immaterial, it has to be one of the two, or both if you wish but that’s even more silly in my opinion…

Category 1)
I do not believe in a material God because I do not see any supernatural events happening on Earth.
Nothing around me is explained by some divine action that would result in matter being altered. Science is the only reliable way to understand the material world and act upon it, and science has never ever recorded a single miracle for example. Mysterious healings are not good examples… they are just unexplained.

Category 2)
I do not believe in an immaterial God because immaterial things cannot exist.
In other words, I believe in the primacy of existance, not the primacy of counciousness. The immaterial things that we, humans, are able to discuss are all results of actuel existance. Love, friendship, fear, surprise, all the emotions that we feel and all that we can think of in our minds are simply the result of our functionning brains.

For something to truly exist by itself, it needs to have material properties. Otherwise, there is no way to identify such thing. If I were to accept that immaterial things can exist, the definition of existence would be meaningless, as anything could theorically exist. Hence there would be no way to distinguish between two separate immaterial things, and there would not even be a way to distinguish between what’s real or not, or distinguish what exists and do not exists.’’ *
 
lemonbeam said:
Hello, How do I respond to these atheist objections?

*’'There are two kind of Gods that I do not believe in, which require different kind of arguments. I think your God is in both category at the same time. The two category I am talking about are material and immaterial. Since this is a dicotomy, it covers all kind of possible gods. In other word, no god can be something else than material and immaterial, it has to be one of the two, or both if you wish but that’s even more silly in my opinion… *

*Category 1) *
*I do not believe in a material God because I do not see any supernatural events happening on Earth. *
*Nothing around me is explained by some divine action that would result in matter being altered. Science is the only reliable way to understand the material world and act upon it, and science has never ever recorded a single miracle for example. Mysterious healings are not good examples… they are just unexplained. *

*Category 2) *
*I do not believe in an immaterial God because immaterial things cannot exist. *
*In other words, I believe in the primacy of existance, not the primacy of counciousness. The immaterial things that we, humans, are able to discuss are all results of actuel existance. Love, friendship, fear, surprise, all the emotions that we feel and all that we can think of in our minds are simply the result of our functionning brains. *

*For something to truly exist by itself, it needs to have material properties. Otherwise, there is no way to identify such thing. If I were to accept that immaterial things can exist, the definition of existence would be meaningless, as anything could theorically exist. Hence there would be no way to distinguish between two separate immaterial things, and there would not even be a way to distinguish between what’s real or not, or distinguish what exists and do not exists.’’ *
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God exists in a Trinity which is a mystery believed in by faith given us by that same God.

God is spiritual. God is God and therefore needs no material thing to exist.

Love, friendship etc that we fell could not be felt without our spiritual soul.
Again God is pure spirit and needs nothing material to exist.

God is neither material or immaterial but spirit.

Just my opinion
Jeanne
 
Ignoring the atheist’s arrogence, I will prove that immaterial gods can exist.

Thoughts are immaterial. So immaterial things do exist.

Since he’s basing his belief on there being no immaterial gods as immaterial things not existng, than, using his logic, since immaterial exist (since thoughts are immaterial), that means immaterial gods can exist.

Now I will prove, again using his logic, that God dose exist.

Immaterial gods can exist. God is immaterial. The word “God” means a single deity, making no room for other gods. So God exists.
 
Ask him what his thoughts are made of…
Likely that he won’t have an answer, because our thoughts and memories are not “material.” Do immaterial things exist?
 
Hello, thanks for you replies! I need some more help though. He responded with the following:

I wrote first: Thoughts, memories are immaterial. So immaterial things do exist.

And he replied: *-You confuse result of actual existence with actual existence itself. We humans, exist, and as a result we “produce” thoughts, ideas, feelings, etc…

I had already mentioned that immaterial things that we figure out in our brains are RESULTS of existence.
Can you name me one immaterial thing that exists by itself? Something that has no primary attributes? No you can’t, because we have no way to detect the presence of such thing. *

?
 
lemonbeam said:
Hello, thanks for you replies! I need some more help though. He responded with the following:

I wrote first: Thoughts, memories are immaterial. So immaterial things do exist.

And he replied: *-You confuse result of actual existence with actual existence itself. We humans, exist, and as a result we “produce” thoughts, ideas, feelings, etc…

I had already mentioned that immaterial things that we figure out in our brains are RESULTS of existence.
Can you name me one immaterial thing that exists by itself? Something that has no primary attributes? No you can’t, because we have no way to detect the presence of such thing. *

?
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Name one? How about God? Who said He had to be like anything else conceivable. I would posit that he is unique. Uniqueness would most certainly be a property of the One, True, Living God.
 
Also, what is the difference between a person who is alive and one that is one milisecond dead? One has life, one has not. Life can not be measured, i.e. is immaterial. Researchers have tried to quantitate the soul over the years, have failed, and have pretty much given up. 🤷
 
Tell this person that energy is immaterial, but clearly exists (otherwise nothing would move)
 
lemonbeam said:
Can you name me one immaterial thing that exists by itself? Something that has no primary attributes? No you can’t, because we have no way to detect the presence of such thing.
Click to expand...
?

Just because you can’t detect something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’m sure there are planets in space that we can’t see. There are also scientific hypothesis of things like dark matter that are not (yet, possibly) detected. What about things we can detect now that our ancestors were not able to? Does that mean that molecules didn’t exist back in the day? How does he know that immaterial things also won’t someday be able to be detected through material means?
 
Jon_S said:
Just because you can’t detect something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I’m sure there are planets in space that we can’t see. There are also scientific hypothesis of things like dark matter that are not (yet, possibly) detected. What about things we can detect now that our ancestors were not able to? Does that mean that molecules didn’t exist back in the day? How does he know that immaterial things also won’t someday be able to be detected through material means?
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The difference here is, that upon evidence an athiest will change their position. So if someday that evidence comes along, 🙂
 
StrawberryJam said:
The difference here is, that upon evidence an athiest will change their position. So if someday that evidence comes along, 🙂
Click to expand...
The evidence for Christianity exists in history and at the present. Just because evidence exists, doesn’t compel acceptance of it.
 
davidv said:
The evidence for Christianity exists in history and at the present. Just because evidence exists, doesn’t compel acceptance of it.
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I’m sorry, we agree there is evidence for Christianity. We disagree there is evidence for the Christian God.:o
 
StrawberryJam said:
I’m sorry, we agree there is evidence for Christianity. We disagree there is evidence for the Christian God.:o
Click to expand...
youtube.com/watch?v=rCP-SMlbGv4

How can we trust which is Unseen?

Simple. LOOK. LOOK for the proof.

The shadow proves the sunshine.
The echo proves the sound.
The steam proves the heat.
The watermark proves the flood.
The rustling of leaves proves the wind.

We struggle to believe what we cannot see.
But we can not see we are not really looking.

The Creation proves the Creator.
The Heavens prove His Glory.
The Son proves the Father.
The Cross proves His Love.

Jesus said, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 
lemonbeam said:
youtube.com/watch?v=rCP-SMlbGv4

How can we trust which is Unseen?

Simple. LOOK. LOOK for the proof.

The shadow proves the sunshine.
The echo proves the sound.
The steam proves the heat.
The watermark proves the flood.
The rustling of leaves proves the wind.

We struggle to believe what we cannot see.
But we can not see we are not really looking.

The Creation proves the Creator.
The Heavens prove His Glory.
The Son proves the Father.
The Cross proves His Love.

Jesus said, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Click to expand...
Thomas was not blessed before he needed to see? What of people who try to see and can not see? Does God want blind followers?
 
maybe some people don’t want to see. they attribute every bit of evidence to something/anything BUT god.

no, I’ve not leapt over the fence yet. no where NEAR doing that! just examining things from both sides…
 
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