Objectively discerning the truth

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SalamKhan

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Hi,

Mystics for example, of various religious traditions, would claim certainty based on spiritual experiences they have personally had. Of course, if you dismiss this as impossible or unreliable in objectively discerning/gauging the truth, they could accuse you of relying instead on your own personal experience/worldview, which is very subjective.

How do you objectively discern/gauge the truth, especially when it comes down to attaining certainty through mysticism?

Thanks in advance and God bless.
 
I’m not sure about mysticism in particular, but in everyday circumstances, I find the Catechism of the Church to be a reliable guide for discerning truths.

One can compare their personal experiences and beliefs with that of the Church and deduct things from there.

🤷
 
Hello SalamKhan,

Can you tell me how you know anything to be objectively true?

For me, it is 1) my experience combined with 2) reason.

It is reason that tells me that it is wrong, for example, to kill humans but okay to kill cows.
 
SalamKhan said:
Hi,

Mystics for example, of various religious traditions, would claim certainty based on spiritual experiences they have personally had. Of course, if you dismiss this as impossible or unreliable in objectively discerning/gauging the truth, they could accuse you of relying instead on your own personal experience/worldview, which is very subjective.

How do you objectively discern/gauge the truth, especially when it comes down to attaining certainty through mysticism?

Thanks in advance and God bless.
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you might

Fr. John harden has an interesting confusioning teaching on mystism. And he could not figure it out!!!
 
SalamKhan said:
This is part of what I’m asking you guys.
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Are you asking how can one discern the objective truth strictly through mysticism?

In my faith, I believe in God the Creator - an all loving being. I believe that God created spirits, some of them made the choice to remain with God in Heaven, others chose to go against God, and so were kicked out of Heaven.

I believe that humans can interact with both the good spirits while on Earth (what I refer to as “angels”), and also interact with bad spirits while on Earth (what I refer to as “demons”).

In my faith, we are told that we must discern the spirits. So, when we have a spiritual interaction, the question is: “does it draw us closer to God or does it draw us away from God?” Spiritual experiences that draw us closer to God would come from angels (or God Himself) while those that draw us away from God would come from demonic spirits.

So, if someone from a different faith tradition argues that they have had a mystical experience that confirms their faith tradition (and thus invalidates my Catholic faith tradition), then I can see that they would be 100% correct: they DID have a spiritual encounter and that encounter DID lead them away from (what I believe to be) the objective Truth.

So, given that spirits can choose to interact with us consistent with their position (angels and demons), I do not think that it is possible to use individual mystical experiences to discern an objective truth.
 
in_servitude said:
I do not think that it is possible to use individual mystical experiences to discern an objective truth.
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But then, they could accuse you of dismissing what’s merely unfamiliar to you, and thus relying on your own personal experience/worldview, which is subjective.
 
SalamKhan said:
But then, they could accuse you of dismissing what’s merely unfamiliar to you, and thus relying on your own personal experience/worldview, which is subjective.
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If it is the case that the only way to discern the objective truth is through mystical experiences, then they would have a valid complaint. You are correct that personal experiences, especially related to mysticism, are in and of themselves just that - an experience.

It is for this reason that I argue that objective truth must be discerned through means that are not strictly mystical.

So, I argue that their accusations against me would stand: if I was using only my own mystical experiences to claim that their mystical experiences lead them away from objective truth - then yes, I would be dismissing what was merely unfamiliar to me.
 
in_servitude said:
If it is the case that the only way to discern the objective truth is through mystical experiences, then they would have a valid complaint. You are correct that personal experiences, especially related to mysticism, are in and of themselves just that - an experience.

It is for this reason that I argue that objective truth must be discerned through means that are not strictly mystical.

So, I argue that their accusations against me would stand: if I was using only my own mystical experiences to claim that their mystical experiences lead them away from objective truth - then yes, I would be dismissing what was merely unfamiliar to me.
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That’s a fair point.
 
SalamKhan said:
Hi,

Mystics for example, of various religious traditions, would claim certainty based on spiritual experiences they have personally had. Of course, if you dismiss this as impossible or unreliable in objectively discerning/gauging the truth, they could accuse you of relying instead on your own personal experience/worldview, which is very subjective.

How do you objectively discern/gauge the truth, especially when it comes down to attaining certainty through mysticism?

Thanks in advance and God bless.
Click to expand...
The Christian teaching from the Catholic Church is that certain truths have been revealed by God and also that it is a mistake to rely autonomously on conscience without the teaching of the Church to aid in the proper formation of conscience. God help man through actual graces to come to the truth (and conversion). Many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of the visible structure of the Catholic Church.
 
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